Cellarscience Baja Experiences

[rtstrider]

Hey all! I just wanted to share my current experineces with Cellarscience Baja yeast

https://cellarscience.com/products/baja-dry-beer-yeast
I have a Cerveza that was brewed yesterday and it appears there is a good bit of lag time on this strain. 2 12 Gram packets were used on this batch. It's been over 24 hours now with very little visible activity. I'm not sure how the end product will turn out, however, the lag time has been majorly concerning. WLP940 has been used previously and there was krausening at 12 hours. Going to let this ride out as there aren't any other dry lager strains on hand. Really rooting for this strain though because of cost and potential ease of use. It was pitched around 64F yesterday and it's been at 50F for around 18 hours or so. Here's to hoping the dry lager strain shows out!

Anyone else have experience with Baja? If so is this par for the course?

 

[rtstrider]

It's been over 32 hours and still no krausen. I do see little rising bubbles every few seconds that appear to be fermentation, but, absolutely no krausen or attempt of it. Going to let it ride at 50F for a week or so and just see what happens. All in all this is really odd! This may be one of the cases where it's actually actively fermenting without any visual cues haha. Fingers crossed

 

[rtstrider]

Right over 48 hours and we have krausen!

 

[Red over White]

This article reminds me of the good and bad.

https://www.experimentalbrew.com/2021/01/28/yeast-cultures-are-like-nuclear-weapons/
Does proofing dry yeast serve you well, or does the lag time at a higher pH hurt you?

 

[lumbergh]

I used this yeast recently on a negra Modelo type beer. I pitched one pack for 2.5 gallons at 62-64F and fermented at 55F. I didn't have the lag you experienced. It took off in less than 24 hours. Maybe the extra 5 degrees made a difference?

The end product is super tasty and would definitely use this yeast again.

 

[rtstrider]

I used this yeast recently on a negra Modelo type beer. I pitched one pack for 2.5 gallons at 62-64F and fermented at 55F. I didn't have the lag you experienced. It took off in less than 24 hours. Maybe the extra 5 degrees made a difference?

The end product is super tasty and would definitely use this yeast again.

It's definitely possible! I had a tease of activity around 24 hours but it was crazy subtle. 36-38 hours bubbles started forming, 48 hours it was nice and foamy! I think it'll be fine. Depending on how this batch turns out I may try again at 55F next time. These packs were kept cold and such then dry pitched. Did you happen to rehydrate prior to pitching?

 

[lumbergh]

I didn't rehydrate as I figured I was pitching way more than required (also lazy).

 

[Wuggly Ump]

I have a batch of 1.047 OG pale lager fermenting with this yeast now. I pitched midday Thursday when the wort got down to the low 50s. For a 5.5 gallon batch, I used 2 packs, rehydrated. I had blowoff tube activity at around 24 hours, and it’s been chugging along at 50 degrees for about 96 hours so I’m letting it rise to 55 for a few days before doing a D-rest.
I, too, really want this yeast to be a hit, principally to have a nice low-cost dry lager option. Right now I’m tentatively hopeful. It’s nice to hear others have had good results.
Maybe you had a longer lag because of pitching dry and then cooling from 65 to 50? I don’t have the experience to do more than spitball about the cause of lag in your case.

 

[tracer bullet]

I've never heard of this yeast, but I'm going to try right now to buy it. A Negra Modelo clone of sorts was going to be my next brew and I hand't picked out a yeast yet. Done!

 

[rtstrider]

I have a batch of 1.047 OG pale lager fermenting with this yeast now. I pitched midday Thursday when the wort got down to the low 50s. For a 5.5 gallon batch, I used 2 packs, rehydrated. I had blowoff tube activity at around 24 hours, and it’s been chugging along at 50 degrees for about 96 hours so I’m letting it rise to 55 for a few days before doing a D-rest.
I, too, really want this yeast to be a hit, principally to have a nice low-cost dry lager option. Right now I’m tentatively hopeful. It’s nice to hear others have had good results.
Maybe you had a longer lag because of pitching dry and then cooling from 65 to 50? I don’t have the experience to do more than spitball about the cause of lag in your case.

Yep I'm thinking dry pitching may be the culprit for the lag time. Regardless I think it'll turn out just fine as long as the sanitation practices were good. I'll make sure to keep everyone posted!

 

[lumbergh]

My keg of this just kicked. Time to make more!

When compare to the actual Negra Modelo, mine had a lot more yeast character (and flavor overall). It tasted more like a lager (I don't know how to describe it).

I just started making lagers recently and have only used MJ Cali lager and Baja. The MJ is super clean, but didn't have the lager taste.

 

[elcapitannorte]

I am also experiencing quite the lag time with Baja.

I made a starter around 5pm on Wednesday 3/22/23 with 4.8 liters of water and 454g of Light Pilsen DME. Once cooled to < 70F I pitched the Baja yeast packet into the flask and put it on the stir plate. I cold crashed the yeast starter on Friday at around 5pm at 34F.

On Saturday 3/25/23 I brewed a 1.048 SG Mexican lager, transferred it to my fermenter, and set the thermostat to 50F. At around 5pm on Saturday I decanted all but around 1500ml of the yeast starter, pitched it, and hit the fermenter with O2 for about 60 seconds.

I was getting nervous this morning so I bumped the temp to 52F with plans to keep increasing if I didn't see any activity after several hours. Around mid-day today I started to see just a little bit of activity (see tiny krausen in photo) and my iSpindel showed a 2 SG point drop since pitching. I was getting a little nervous, but after reading these comments maybe this is par for the course on this strain. I'm excited to harvest the yeast and see how subsequent generations perform.

 

[rtstrider]

I am also experiencing quite the lag time with Baja.

I made a starter around 5pm on Wednesday 3/22/23 with 4.8 liters of water and 454g of Light Pilsen DME. Once cooled to < 70F I pitched the Baja yeast packet into the flask and put it on the stir plate. I cold crashed the yeast starter on Friday at around 5pm at 34F.

On Saturday 3/25/23 I brewed a 1.048 SG Mexican lager, transferred it to my fermenter, and set the thermostat to 50F. At around 5pm on Saturday I decanted all but around 1500ml of the yeast starter, pitched it, and hit the fermenter with O2 for about 60 seconds.

I was getting nervous this morning so I bumped the temp to 52F with plans to keep increasing if I didn't see any activity after several hours. Around mid-day today I started to see just a little bit of activity (see tiny krausen in photo) and my iSpindel showed a 2 SG point drop since pitching. I was getting a little nervous, but after reading these comments maybe this is par for the course on this strain. I'm excited to harvest the yeast and see how subsequent generations perform.

The liquid strain performs extremely well. I have WLP940 banked in the freezer and used it on a lager a good while ago. I don't see this form of the Modelo strain as a daily driver at this time but I will definitely keep it on hand due to price and needing an emergency strain

 

[elcapitannorte]

The liquid strain performs extremely well. I have WLP940 banked in the freezer and used it on a lager a good while ago. I don't see this form of the Modelo strain as a daily driver at this time but I will definitely keep it on hand due to price and needing an emergency strain

I'm with you. I've used WLP940 with great success in the past.

I'm curious to know how a second generation will do with the BAJA yeast. I plan to collect from this batch and hope that they aren't too stressed so as to perform poorly on a second gen, but we'll find out!

 

[brewbama]

Good to see these reports. I have a brewday planned next week and Baja is the yeast on deck. I plan to pitch heavy and ferment at 55°F based on what I am seeing here. High pitch rate is 4 grams per gallon of wort, I think I’ll use ~5.

 

[wepeeler]

I picked up 2 packs for a buddy of mine in our brew club and he experienced lag with it as well. This is what he said, "A two day lag then a steady robust fermentation the rest of the week at 55°. It started to slow down Monday, and I’ve been bumping the temp up a little each day. It’s now at 62°, still bubbling, but I expect it’ll go through the weekend before it peters out finally. I think I’ll leave it for another week and slowly lower the temp down to clean up then crash it mid- April for a good lagering since there’s plenty of time. I’m confident the yeast will attenuate well (a problem I’ve been experiencing recently) since I used both packs, and I gave the fermentor a kiss. I’ll pull a sample before crashing first of course to find out. "

I'm looking to try this yeast out too for a Summer lawn beer, so good to know his feedback was in line what I'm reading here.

 

[rtstrider]

I picked up 2 packs for a buddy of mine in our brew club and he experienced lag with it as well. This is what he said, "A two day lag then a steady robust fermentation the rest of the week at 55°. It started to slow down Monday, and I’ve been bumping the temp up a little each day. It’s now at 62°, still bubbling, but I expect it’ll go through the weekend before it peters out finally. I think I’ll leave it for another week and slowly lower the temp down to clean up then crash it mid- April for a good lagering since there’s plenty of time. I’m confident the yeast will attenuate well (a problem I’ve been experiencing recently) since I used both packs, and I gave the fermentor a kiss. I’ll pull a sample before crashing first of course to find out. "

I'm looking to try this yeast out too for a Summer lawn beer, so good to know his feedback was in line what I'm reading here.

Will you be repitching the slurry? It's finally starting to slow down. I ramped it up to 60F raising 2F every 12 hours starting at 50F. It was 60F as of Monday this week. It seems to be on the tail end of the ferment now. I'll be yanking it out of the ferment fridge no matter what come Sunday as I have another brew day lined up. it should be close enough to finishing that I'd think it'd be fine to let sit for another week or so at room temp

I do want to get this strain to work well though since it's dirt cheap. I may end up playing with making a starter, splitting up the slurry, making a stepped starter as needed from the split up slurry, and just riding with that for giggles IF this produces as drinkable of a brew as WLP940 does

 

[wepeeler]

Will you be repitching the slurry? It's finally starting to slow down. I ramped it up to 60F raising 2F every 12 hours starting at 50F. It was 60F as of Monday this week. It seems to be on the tail end of the ferment now. I'll be yanking it out of the ferment fridge no matter what come Sunday as I have another brew day lined up. it should be close enough to finishing that I'd think it'd be fine to let sit for another week or so at room temp

I do want to get this strain to work well though since it's dirt cheap. I may end up playing with making a starter, splitting up the slurry, making a stepped starter as needed from the split up slurry, and just riding with that for giggles IF this produces as drinkable of a brew as WLP940 does

It's not my brew, but I doubt he is repitching.

 

[Wuggly Ump]

Just a quick update on my batch with this: I just started cold-crashing my 1.047 OG lager last night after I pulled a sample. It tasted nice and was at 1.008, for 82% attenuation.
I had it at 50 degrees F for 5 days, then 54-5 for 4 days, then gradually let it get up to 66 over the course of 12 days. The last 5 days of that were in the 64-66 range. Even yesterday it was bubbling every 15-30 seconds, but I’m fairly confident that was just off-gassing.
When I pulled the sample I got a whiff of sulphur, but there was none I could detect in the sample itself.
The fermentation seemed to take a while, but I think I have that impression because I’ve been using a lot of fast ale yeasts lately. On the whole I’m pleased. Let’s hope it clears up nicely.

 

[beersk]

Just a quick update on my batch with this: I just started cold-crashing my 1.047 OG lager last night after I pulled a sample. It tasted nice and was at 1.008, for 82% attenuation.
I had it at 50 degrees F for 5 days, then 54-5 for 4 days, then gradually let it get up to 66 over the course of 12 days. The last 5 days of that were in the 64-66 range. Even yesterday it was bubbling every 15-30 seconds, but I’m fairly confident that was just off-gassing.
When I pulled the sample I got a whiff of sulphur, but there was none I could detect in the sample itself.
The fermentation seemed to take a while, but I think I have that impression because I’ve been using a lot of fast ale yeasts lately. On the whole I’m pleased. Let’s hope it clears up nicely.

I wouldn't be surprised if you get the sulfur once this cools. I've had that happen before especially on beers that have a delayed start. This comes from the stressed yeast in cases like that.

 

[Wuggly Ump]

I wouldn't be surprised if you get the sulfur once this cools. I've had that happen before especially on beers that have a delayed start. This comes from the stressed yeast in cases like that.

Good to look out for that, but we’ll have to see. My start wasn’t delayed — I think that was the OP. Mine got going decently quickly, though not as quick as most of my ale fermentations.

 

[rtstrider]

Pulled a sample of this brew yesterday evening. It reaffirms my suspicion. I do not believe this is a good dried strain out of the gate. I also pick up a certain...Spiciness I don't get with the liquid version of this strain. I'd almost say it's a hint of phenolics (it's there but you really have to be looking for it). Then again it could just be the yeast strain itself in suspension. Giving it another week or so then moving to secondary at room temps to let the yeast finish doing their thing and hopefully start floccing out. Either way this will be beer. It's just a matter of what beer will it be after the yeast is finished lol I'll make sure to keep this thread updated.

 

[rtstrider]

In the meantime I am building a cream ale recipe as a back up plan. This was supposed to be a lager for Cinco De Mayo. Figure worst case a cream ale would work lol

 

[Wuggly Ump]

In the meantime I am building a cream ale recipe as a back up plan. This was supposed to be a lager for Cinco De Mayo. Figure worst case a cream ale would work lol

I’m kinda in the same boat: plotting a backup beer (also a cream ale) if this one doesn’t turn out for the party I had intended it for. When I pulled a sample before cold-crashing and fining, it was tasting good. But the sample I pulled today had, as my wife described it, a slight acidic smell. It came off as very slightly sulphuric to me. But of course it could be any number of things aside from the strain (infection, of course, oxidation, just normal first pint stuff, a need to be lagered a while, etc.)
But the uncertainty is not fun. I’ve been thinking I should have just used 34/70.

 

[elcapitannorte]

Fermentation has finished for the Mexican lager that I brewed with BAJA. As I noted in a previous post I believe I underpitched. That said, I'm not sure if I attribute the slow start to that, to it being a characteristic of this yeast strain, or the fact that I started it at the lower end of the recommended temperature range of 50F. Due to its slow start I bumped the temperature up to 52F after a couple of days then to 55F after a couple more days. Reading the trend line of data outputted from my iSpindel I would guess that this strain likes to be around 55F as that is where the bulk of the fermentation activity occurred for me. It was a nice, steady downward trend. Once I bumped the temp up to 58F on the way to 60F for a diacetyl rest, activity slowed down then leveled off at 60F. This could have been due to the fact that it was close to terminal anyway, which is what I believe.

I've attached a screenshot from BrewFather showing the iSpindel data. A couple of things to note, the blue line is the temperature in degrees F, the green line can be ignored for these purposes as it is the voltage of the device, and the red line is the gravity. I'm still trying to dial in the accuracy of the iSpindel and it shows a starting gravity of 1.056, but my measurements from a hydrometer and refractometer were 1.049. On April 4th there is a sharp decline in gravity (red line) which is due to my adjustment of the correction factor in BrewFather. I took a hydrometer reading today and it showed 1.007 which is an apparent attenuation of 85%, the maximum expected attenuation from CellarScience's data on this strain.

I tasted the hydro sample and didn't get any spicy, acidic, or sulphur notes either in flavor or aroma. I plan to keg it later this week after collecting the yeast for use in my next brew, a pale ale. I know this strain may be a bit odd for that style, but I'm looking for something fairly neutral and wanted to see how a second generation performs with this strain. I'm still debating whether to ferment it warm (68F) or let it ride at the temperature it seemed to prefer of 55F.

 

[elcapitannorte]

I tapped this keg yesterday. Typically I like to have at least a month of cold conditioning in the keg before I start pouring, but I wanted to get a taste of this while it is young. I am picking up a hint of banana (isoamyl acetate) that is clearly an off flavor for a Mexican lager. I'm wondering if this is due to me potentially under pitching. I don't think it would be caused by the fermentation temperature as I kept it close to 55 for the bulk of fermentation with a d-rest at 60 starting when it was 4 gravity points from terminal. Maybe some time in the keg will mellow this flavor, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

I ended up pitching the second generation of this yeast, a liter of slurry, into some pale ale wort. It was a quick fermentation, over in about 2 days, with the fermentation temperature set to 65 with a d-rest of 72. Attached is the BrewFather chart from the iSpindel tracking of the pale ale fermentation. Light green is the temperature and turquoise is gravity (for the colorblind folks temp is the jumpy line and gravity is the one that looks like a slide ).

I'll continue to post updates on the Mexican lager and the Pale Ale as far as flavor developments.

 

[rtstrider]

I ended up dumping the batch as it was very phenolic. I never have these issues with liquid strains. I think it's the pitching rate honestly. Regardless chalk this up to a dry strain I won't bother with again

 

[tracer bullet]

I ended up dumping the batch as it was very phenolic. I never have these issues with liquid strains. I think it's the pitching rate honestly. Regardless chalk this up to a dry strain I won't bother with again

That's certainly a valid opinion and decision. But... if you think it's the pitching rate, consider fixing that and trying again someday. Along with anything else that may have been a cause.

It's always hard to read experiences... some people get lucky, or unlucky. Some are hyper sensitive to a flavor others would not detect, some have no experience and just think everything tastes good. Never know what you'll get in your own beer.

 

[rtstrider]

That's certainly a valid opinion and decision. But... if you think it's the pitching rate, consider fixing that and trying again someday. Along with anything else that may have been a cause.

It's always hard to read experiences... some people get lucky, or unlucky. Some are hyper sensitive to a flavor others would not detect, some have no experience and just think everything tastes good. Never know what you'll get in your own beer.

The only way I've been able to circumvent these issues with dry lager strains is via using a starter. I know it's not recommended...But...If it works

 

[Slim M]

I also had a negative experience with Baja. I made a light lager with 20% maize & 10% flaked wheat og of 1.045 pitched 4 packs in 12 gallon batch. Chilled to 58f pitched yeast set temperature control to 51 and had 2 day lag so I bumped it to 55 and held for 6 days then increased a few degrees daily until 64f.

I keg and stored at 40f for 5 weeks and It seems to have a slight fruit aroma apple maybe pear. Beer itself is slightly more hazy than expected but not cloudy. Has slight apple or fruit taste on the back of the tongue along with poorer than my normal head retention. Think I will stick with Diamond for my dry lager yeast. Sucks because I got several packs of this stuff and now I’m gun shy.

 

[Wuggly Ump]

To add to my post above about my Mexican lager that I brewed with this yeast, FWIW: the feedback I got at my homebrew club was really good, so I sent it to a c. 375 entry comp and it took bronze in the international pale lager category, scoring 44. No comments in either venue indicated any bad fermentation byproducts.
So my experience, at least, indicates that Baja can get the job done!

 

[PizzaPapa]

I've got a batch of my stand-by mexican lager going with Baja. So far, it's honestly not bad. No real big esters or phenols, just kind of a yeasty taste. This is before lagering, so I'm sure that'll go away fast.

 

[lumbergh]

I'm reusing Baja for the 1st time. I probably underpitched as I put the starter on the stir plate right before I started brewing. Lots more lag time than when I pitched from the packet. I'll know how it is in a month or so.

 

[PizzaPapa]

Small update: So my mexican-style lager is currently in a keg, lagering. It's checking pretty much every single box it should, other than being slightly sulfury. I did pressure ferment (about 5psi) so there's a chance that just trapped sulfur in as I've had even WLP940 do before. But no esters, phenols or any other real off-flavors really picked up besides sulfur and a sort of "yeasty" taste, but it's still young.

That said personally I'm not super blown away by this yeast. WLP940/Que Bueno/ect is one of my personal favorite lager strains as a whole and a dry version has pretty much been my dream yeast. Baja does give off some of the flavor profile and drinkability of the liquid versions, but as a whole seems to work way way slower. I've always loved that other versions have resulted in beers so clear I can read a newspaper right through the fermenter, but this one is still a bit hazy. Again, still very young and there could be parts that could be from my process. It could be a cell count thing, since I'm used to the higher count that Fermentis supposedly has on most of their yeasts and that CellarScience specifically recommends rehydrating (which I did not do).

In general, my opinion is kind of mixed on this yeast. Probably going to stick to the liquid version, but it's not really ready yet so I could change my mind.

 

[SanPancho]

Yep I'm thinking dry pitching may be the culprit for the lag time. Regardless I think it'll turn out just fine as long as the sanitation practices were good. I'll make sure to keep everyone posted!

1 pack for 3gal wort at 50F. never took off, even though i rehydrated it in goferm evo protect. on 2nd night aftewards, threw in second pack of yeast, right into fermenter. waited more than 24 hours again to see anything, might have been closer to 48.
WTF.
regardless of how beer comes out, i wont be using it again. i hate having to keep a ton of strains on hand in fridge, remembering to feed/grow them every few months, but i'll do 940 from now on.

 

[ntempleton]

I ended up dumping the batch as it was very phenolic. I never have these issues with liquid strains. I think it's the pitching rate honestly. Regardless chalk this up to a dry strain I won't bother with again

I had the exact same experience, with the extra bonus of it also being very acidic. Like you, I also under-pitched. Glad to see that others are having better results.

 

[rtstrider]

I had the exact same experience, with the extra bonus of it also being very acidic. Like you, I also under-pitched. Glad to see that others are having better results.

I pitched 2 packs and had that experience. I don't believe that would've been considered an under pitch for a 5 gallon batch. From my understanding that would not be considered an underpitch

 

[lumbergh]

When I transferred to keg the sample I tasted didn't have any noticable off flavors. I'll taste a carbonated sample sometime in the next few days.

 

[lumbergh]

Carbonated sample tastes fine. This was used for a Negra Modelo clone (the same recipe as when I pitched from the dry yeast packet).

 

[PizzaPapa]

Update: yesterday I decided to cook up some beer brats for labor day and my go-to cooking beer is Modelo. Figured that now that it's lagered for just shy of a month, I might as well do a side by side comparison. Sadly I didn't take any pictures but here's what I noticed:

• Baja-fermented beer was not nearly as clean as the commercial example. Not necessarily in a bad way with off flavors, but it lacked the macro-style clean flavor. Also wasn't as sweet as Modelo.
• Flavor was a bit more spicy, but in a noble hop way. This most likely comes from the hallertau I used both for bittering and later on in the boil coming through, but the off-flavors everyone keeps mentioning make me wonder if it's being accentuated by the yeast.
• Flavor was a bit more complex overall, but less "beer flavored beer". If anything, it reminded me a little more of German-style lagers.

Overall it's not a bad beer (in fact, my girlfriend LOVES it), just not coming across in a way that screams "yeah this is Modelo... but BETTER" like previous iterations of the recipe has. This all could be user error, but yeah I'm not really blown away by Baja. Maybe I'll try it again down the road but for the time being I'll stick to WLP940/Que Bueno.