Can't get HDPE fermentation bucket clean/sanitized?

[idbrewguy]

Hi all, last few 5 gal batches of ale (all with US-05 and at 65F outside surface of bucket) have picked up the same off flavor (I'd call it a skunkiness, although it doesn't have that polecat smell I've read about). I'm not a total newb and have brewed some good beer, and I think I'm getting the cleaning (oxyclean) and sanitation (star-san) right.

At some point, do you give up on an HDPE fermentation bucket, as in it's hanging on to bacteria I can't shake?

Thanks.

 

[Pappers_]

Yes. I think plastic buckets are a great option for fermenting, but I also think replacing them every year or two makes sense and is cheap insurance. That being said, I can't quite picture what flavor you are talking about. I think of skunkiness as a flavor associated with light-struck hops (usually in the bottle). If your bucket has a wild yeast or bacteria hanging on, I would expect a sour or tartness to be present in your beers.

But, spending $20 on a new bucket would at least let you know if the problem is your bucket.

 

[RM-MN]

No bacteria can survive boiling water. Pour in a gallon of boiling water and move the bucket around so all surfaces have been in contact with the boiling water. It only takes seconds to kill bacteria.

 

[SanPancho]

No bacteria can survive boiling water.

Not true, take botulism for instance. You need 250F for that. Id say 0% chance this is OPs case, but just wanna point out there are bacteria that can take the heat.

Also, one thing folks may not realize is its best to clean immediately. Many bugs can produce a biofilm which greatly increases their ability to withstand heat and chems. Dont let them hang around long enough to form one.

But i doubt this is the flavor OP described.

 

[buckinin]

Does it have this flavor before you bottle or keg? Or only when ready to drink? If the flavor develops later it could be tubing, siphon, valves on fermenter or bottling bucket, etc. it’s usually best to take everything apart to clean to make sure there is nothing hiding in a little crack or crevice.

 

[RM-MN]

Not true, take botulism for instance. You need 250F for that. Id say 0% chance this is OPs case, but just wanna point out there are bacteria that can take the heat.

Also, one thing folks may not realize is its best to clean immediately. Many bugs can produce a biofilm which greatly increases their ability to withstand heat and chems. Dont let them hang around long enough to form one.

But i doubt this is the flavor OP described.

Botulin spores can survive boiling water, botulin itself cannot. Small but important difference.

 

[SanPancho]

Ah, yes. You are correct. That is technically different. But you still get the shits and die! Ha.

Bigger point was the biofilm issue. Especially as its a no-no to give hard scrub to plastic. Clean immediately and well.

 

[RM-MN]

Ah, yes. You are correct. That is technically different. But you still get the poopys and die! Ha.

Bigger point was the biofilm issue. Especially as its a no-no to give hard scrub to plastic. Clean immediately and well.

Actually you don't because botulin cannot propagate in beer. Too acidic, no oxygen, alcohol. You have to propagate the botulin somewhere else and add it to the beer.

 

[idbrewguy]

Yes, right out of the bucket, then doesn't change much in the keg. If I add a lime wedge to the pour, it tastes fine. Not sure if that just masks the off-flavor or if it neutralizes it. I saw a suggestion out here to take it to my LHBS and see if they can help me identify the taste--that's probably what I'll do.

 

[idbrewguy]

Yes. I think plastic buckets are a great option for fermenting, but I also think replacing them every year or two makes sense and is cheap insurance. That being said, I can't quite picture what flavor you are talking about. I think of skunkiness as a flavor associated with light-struck hops (usually in the bottle). If your bucket has a wild yeast or bacteria hanging on, I would expect a sour or tartness to be present in your beers.

But, spending $20 on a new bucket would at least let you know if the problem is your bucket.

In your experience, can I get a light-struck batch if I don't keep the bucket covered? I used to be pretty vigilant about that, but haven't been as much lately. I ferment in a room with one small north-facing window, and we use the overhead lights in there an hour or so a day.

 

[RM-MN]

In your experience, can I get a light-struck batch if I don't keep the bucket covered? I used to be pretty vigilant about that, but haven't been as much lately. I ferment in a room with one small north-facing window, and we use the overhead lights in there an hour or so a day.

It takes UV light to cause skunkiness, fairly strong or for a long period. I doubt that that is the problem but a blanket or t shirt is cheap for a test.

 

[SanPancho]

Actually you don't because botulin cannot propagate in beer. Too acidic, no oxygen, alcohol. You have to propagate the botulin somewhere else and add it to the beer.

If it gets in your vessel, and doesnt get cleaned off, then the next thing the spore sees isnt beer. Its wort.

Technically.

El fin.

 

[Calder]

I always cover my fermenters with an old shirt. Better safe than sorry.

Buy a new bucket or fermenter, whatever you might think you would do next in your Homebrew adventure, and use that to brew the next batch. If there is no change, then it is not the bucket.

Based on your description, I have no clue what the issue is.

If you want to try and clean your current bucket, fill with a weak bleach solution and let soak for a couple of days. Bleach cleans and sanitizes. After using bleach make sure you rinse out the bucket with HOT water (cold water can still leave a bleach film on the container).

 

[gnef]

It is definitely worth the investment to rule it out if anything, and give you the comfort of mind for the vessel itself.

I used plastic buckets for over a decade, replacing them regularly and re-purposing them. I now use chapman stainless fermenters that I'm very happy with, but it is more for the convenience, and I am fine fermenting in plastic buckets if I ever need to (I once needed to ferment something like 5 batches at the same time rapidly, so needed more than the two stainless chapman fermenters that I have).

With that said, examine the rest of your process to see if you can identify anything before it goes to the bucket that could be contributing the off flavor - what tubing is the wort going through, what is the condition of your valves, pumps, chiller, water quality, hops and grain quality, etc.

 

[applescrap]

Would chlorine in water give it a little skunkiness. For me, I noticed chlorine as a bad magician waiting in the wings. Is this possible? Does the room get light from sun all day? That could do something, no?
Maybe taste your brew water at room temp and see of its in there. I once made a joke about fl water and a guy said hey the water here is awesome. I taste a lot of skunky water as I travel the nation or at least compared to colorado water.

 

[idbrewguy]

It is definitely worth the investment to rule it out if anything, and give you the comfort of mind for the vessel itself.

I used plastic buckets for over a decade, replacing them regularly and re-purposing them. I now use chapman stainless fermenters that I'm very happy with, but it is more for the convenience, and I am fine fermenting in plastic buckets if I ever need to (I once needed to ferment something like 5 batches at the same time rapidly, so needed more than the two stainless chapman fermenters that I have).

With that said, examine the rest of your process to see if you can identify anything before it goes to the bucket that could be contributing the off flavor - what tubing is the wort going through, what is the condition of your valves, pumps, chiller, water quality, hops and grain quality, etc.

Useful stuff, thanks. One thing: If my "clean and sanitized" bucket smells a bit of beer, is that normal or have I failed?

 

[idbrewguy]

Would chlorine in water give it a little skunkiness. For me, I noticed chlorine as a bad magician waiting in the wings. Is this possible? Does the room get light from sun all day? That could do something, no?
Maybe taste your brew water at room temp and see of its in there. I once made a joke about fl water and a guy said hey the water here is awesome. I taste a lot of skunky water as I travel the nation or at least compared to colorado water.

It comes from a well (Idaho mountains) and I think it tastes great, but I should probably check it out anyway. I haven't bothered because I've made a number of good batches from it, but it wouldn't hurt regardless. Thanks.

 

[gnef]

Useful stuff, thanks. One thing: If my "clean and sanitized" bucket smells a bit of beer, is that normal or have I failed?

I think that's pretty normal. My plastic buckets always stained over time, and I didn't worry about it immediately.

For your water, you may want to consider investing in a Ward's lab report, then you will know exactly what is in your water. I believe they have one specific for brewing, but it focuses on the brewing related ions, and not necessarily undesirable compounds, so you could consider one of the expanded panels to see if there are some other chemicals in your water that you would want to filter out. I personally am on city water, and use a GAC-10 filter, and I also adjust my pH with brewing salts directly in the mash.