I know you can't sell your homebrew. I was wondering if you could get paid my another person to home brew for them using your own equipment and your knowledge? I tried looking into it online and on here, but I didn't find anything.
Can you get paid for home brewing beer
- Thread starter dackerm
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
- Status
Do it, take the money, and just don't tell anyone.
To do so legally in Texas you would have to file for the appropriate brewing licenses ~$3000. I'm sure other states have similar regulations.
On the other hand you could have your friend reimburse you for the cost of the grain, etc. and tack on a handling fee. Then just give him the final product.
On the other hand you could have your friend reimburse you for the cost of the grain, etc. and tack on a handling fee. Then just give him the final product.
fishhead202
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2014
- Messages
- 54
- Reaction score
- 8
I'm not sure what the difference between 'selling' and 'home brew for them using your own equipment and your knowledge' is.
barnaclebob
Well-Known Member
Im sure some LHBS have classes that you have to pay for...
Surely there wouldnt be anything wrong with "ill bring over my stuff and teach you, you buy the ingredients, we split the batch" arrangements.
Are there any limitations on selling wort?
number40fan
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2014
- Messages
- 462
- Reaction score
- 80
That's the key.
Sell the wort and tell him to add the yeast.
Sell the wort and tell him to add the yeast.
From what I understand everything is kosher until the yeast is pitched. Basically you could sell them the wort and then they could take the wort home and pitch their own yeast at their own property. It's essentially the same thing as buying LME or DME from a homebrew store, or a brewery giving you wort to ferment off-premise.
MindenMan
Well-Known Member
Until the yeast is added, it's not beer. So if he adds the yeast, you are not selling beer, as mentioned above. You sold him wort, and are charging storage and handling fees, simple, right?
harleybug88
Well-Known Member
IMO, I think that could legally fall under a "consultation fee". But if it is illegal, I don't think the "FEDS" would be breaking your door down.
I'm not a Lawyer, but I say go for it.
And yeah, just to be on the safe side, let him add the yeast.
I'm not a Lawyer, but I say go for it.
And yeah, just to be on the safe side, let him add the yeast.
mikescooling
Well-Known Member
It's a controlled substance, so selling it in any way is a No No. I have a friend who is too old for brewing and he pays for ingredients (because I'm poor) and takes home wort. He pitches the yeast at his home.
Except for the part where they have to buy the license and pay the taxes for selling it to you.
In the end if you want to be sure of the full legality of doing it any these ways I would contact your state's alcohol regulatory agency and inquire to them directly. If you don't really care about the legality of the situation, and instead only want to soothe your conscious a little bit then go ahead and consult an internet message board,
Treat it like craigslist. Don't sell enough of it to need to put it on your taxes.
Also the "no yeast" thing is a good idea.
EDIT: My point is that as long as you do it sparingly and have your friends give you money for "a service", who is really going to call the cops on you?
Also the "no yeast" thing is a good idea.
EDIT: My point is that as long as you do it sparingly and have your friends give you money for "a service", who is really going to call the cops on you?
I highly doubt that taxes are a concern though it's a decent point.
OP: how much does this other person intend to pay you? Technically you cannot sell beer but you can likely get away with selling wort. I don't know that this other person wants to deal with pitching the yeast and such, but that is up to you to decide how to handle it.
I'd say legally, even with all the suggestions above, that's still require something along the lines of a brew on premises license and probably still illegal, although I'd figure that local laws may vary. Splitting the cost of the batch (however you want to do it), and them having him brew with you, and splitting the final product is much less of a gray area.
But at the end of the day, when there's anything that's a legal gray area, rule 1) don't trust a bunch of random people on the internet for advice and 2) don't announce on the internet that you plan on doing something of questionable legality.
But at the end of the day, when there's anything that's a legal gray area, rule 1) don't trust a bunch of random people on the internet for advice and 2) don't announce on the internet that you plan on doing something of questionable legality.
grittanomyces
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2014
- Messages
- 170
- Reaction score
- 26
Sure, it worked out fine for Al Capone
You would be in less trouble selling wort and have him pitch the yeast on his own property. The only thing that isn't on the level is that you're selling a food product without board of health inspections.
agrazela
Well-Known Member
Oddly nobody's asked yet...
Is this "other person" someone you know well, like a friend or relative? Or are we talking about stranger(s)?
And is this some kind of one-time or occasional thing you're talking about, or are you planning to make a living at it?
Agree contractually to mow his lawn for $50 a mow. When you brew, take a pair of scissors and cut a couple blades of grass and collect your money. Then to celebrate your guys' successful business arrangement, gift him 50 bottles of homebrew.
ArkotRamathorn
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 1, 2013
- Messages
- 1,302
- Reaction score
- 317
All discussion below is not meant to belittle or argue with anyone. I 100% all the way understand the aspect of having to pay taxes for alcohol to the state and federal government if you are selling alcohol, thats completely kosher as far as I am concerned. I also would never do this where I would sell beer to a friend, theres a million excuses I can come up with to brew a batch for a friend and not expect payment in turn (brewed 4 gallons of a Bell's Hopslam Clone for a friends birthday which is NOT AT ALL a cheap beer to brew). EVERYONE likes beer as a birthday gift... except maybe someone in AA (maybe).
This whole discussion really makes the distinctions seem ridiculous. Does the friend legally have to stand there and pitch the yeast into the wort? If I take all my equipment over to a friends house, and they bought the ingredients, and paid me a labor cost per hour for brewing it, and I pitched the yeast into the wort at their house, does that suddenly make it *my* beer I'm *selling* to the person? Mostly rhetorical questions, I don't want anyone to think I am arguing with them.
The lawn mowing brings up, your friend could mow your lawn for you, and you gift him a batch of beer (if you have a gigantic lawn).
This whole discussion really makes the distinctions seem ridiculous. Does the friend legally have to stand there and pitch the yeast into the wort? If I take all my equipment over to a friends house, and they bought the ingredients, and paid me a labor cost per hour for brewing it, and I pitched the yeast into the wort at their house, does that suddenly make it *my* beer I'm *selling* to the person? Mostly rhetorical questions, I don't want anyone to think I am arguing with them.
The lawn mowing brings up, your friend could mow your lawn for you, and you gift him a batch of beer (if you have a gigantic lawn).
We're talking about government tax regulations. Arbitrary rules and technicalities are the name of the game.
The laws about selling beer are pretty rigid. What this question is really about, in my opinion, is that of scale, publicity, frequency and customer base. The government isn't going to come knocking if you are over a buddy's house showing him how to homebrew and you let him keep the results. You can frame that story in a number of ways to make it feel more legal. I do know of someone that knows someone that was brewing large batches, maybe 1BBL at a time and selling off cornies to casual acquaintances. That is obviously 100% illegal. Notice that there's not much distance between the two examples but I believe one is on the radar and the other is not. I think the first step in keeping the grey areas grey is to not even talk about it, especially not here.
All the ideas people come up with for unspoken barters or diverted payment for legal services, etc are cute but the TTB will easily find the real intent in the transactions if the heat was on.
All the ideas people come up with for unspoken barters or diverted payment for legal services, etc are cute but the TTB will easily find the real intent in the transactions if the heat was on.
Jupapabear
Well-Known Member
This.... This is great.
It's perfectly legal for you to make money selling things. When you file your taxes it is a very simple process to report your earnings.
But there are laws governing what you can sell; especially food products where the permit would come into play. Wort would probably be categorized as a food product which is why I suggest contacting the state agency that governs alcohol (if they don't deal with wort itself they could probably direct them to the proper agency) if the OP wants to keep everything completely legal.
Of course if the OP and his buddy are smart and don't do the transaction in front of the cops/ATF agents and keep their mouths shut no one is going to break down their doors looking for the "illegal" wort/beer.
I was just wondering honestly. I have no actual plans to do it as of now. I just didn't know if it was legal to charge someone for the ingredients and a labor fee for brewing for them.
I don't have any plans on doing this as of now. I was just wondering what the legality of charging someone for ingredients and labor for me brewing for them. I love brewing but don't always have the money to do it. It seems like if I did that I could brew more and have more money to buy ingredients to brew for myself
While all the answers provided may work in one way or another the fact remains that it is against federal and state laws to sell beer without proper licensing on not only the federal and state level but also local law.
That's the fact.
Sent from the Commune
That's the fact.
Sent from the Commune
You mean like if they don't advertise it on the internet?
Seriously though. This is a common topic, and in general its about skirting rules. I don't like reading any of these threads on this site, as I think we should all be ambassadors to homebrewing and now that it's legal in all 50 states, keep it that way by not being a community of rule-skirters that draws the attention of regulators.
Thinks that's unrealistic? I'll tell you from first hand experience, a single call from a campground security guard to the local ABC office was the catalyst for the cancellation of the SoCal Homebrew Fest this year. There's plenty of pencil pushers just dying to lord their power over someone, anyone, and especially anyone who thinks they can flaunt the power of said pencil pushers.
In the end the only way to know for sure is to contact your local/state officials in charge of the things and ask them; every state/municipality has different rules governing the distribution and sale of food products and/or the brewing of beer.
The only thing all states have in common is that the sale and/or bartering of alcohol for money, services, and/or other goods is flat out 100% illegal; no ifs, ands, or buts about it.
IMO since it has been such an uphill battle to get homebrewing legalized in all 50 states that if you think something might possibly be a grey area I wouldn't chance it.
And I was just responding to your post. You're not always gonna get an answer you might like, but at least you're allowed to ask.
I don't think you're a bad guy or anything, I just think this topic merits an honest and direct answer.
I was just trying to find out of it was a grey area or not. I wasn't trying to be a rule skirter was what I was trying to say. I was asking so I wasn't a rule skirter.
I was just trying to find out of it was a grey area or not. I wasn't trying to be a rule skirter was what I was trying to say. I was asking so I wasn't a rule skirter
If you're selling Unfermented wort it's no different than selling homemade cookies and what not. If you're doing any kind of volume you would need a food handling food prep license probably regulated by your municipality or state. Same premise as the u brew places. Your receipt will state that the sale is exclusive of the juice and the yeast. The regs also state that you must pitch your own yeast. So if you want to make it as semi kosher as possible have him sign something acknowledging that you're selling him Unfermented wort, and that he is responsible for adding the year which legally makes it into magical alcohol, and then both clam up and never tell anyone or the irs and the local bylaws people will come after you.
Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
PackerfaninSanDiego
Member
some things are best left unsaid. When others here have said, "I think this or I think that", means they do not know.
Hamaki
Well-Known Member
http://www.ncsl.org/research/financ...me-manufacture-of-alcohol-state-statutes.aspx provides a summary of each state's laws. As near as I can figure out for California, where I live, section 23356.2 of the Business and Professions Code does not prevent me from brewing for a friend in their home. If that friend wants to pay me I don't see where that is prohibited so long as the limitation of 100 gal/single, 200 gal/multiple adults in that household is not exceeded. California state law appears to be aimed at limiting the sale of a product rather than the sale of a service. I don't know if there are regs associated with this statute or, better yet, case law.
If it were me and it was one time for a friend who wanted to buy the ingredients & give me a little something extra for my trouble I wouldn't think twice about it. More than that & I'd read up some more. Do your own research, seek qualified legal advice if warranted and make up your own mind.
If it were me and it was one time for a friend who wanted to buy the ingredients & give me a little something extra for my trouble I wouldn't think twice about it. More than that & I'd read up some more. Do your own research, seek qualified legal advice if warranted and make up your own mind.
hunter_le five
Sheriff Underscore
Sorry if some of us seem defensive when these topics come up, but it does come up A LOT, and we are quite protective of our hobby and its legal status.
Sadly, it's illegal to sell homebrew, no matter how you slice it. Having someone pay you to brew&ferment them beer is different from having someone buy beer from you only in semantics. At the end of the day, someone is still giving you cash in exchange for alcoholic beverages. Illegal, period.
The best advice I can give you is have them buy all the ingredients, and bring it to you. You brew the beer, and give them half of it. You keep the other half. No money changes hands, you're just brewing beer for free, and giving some away to a friend.
Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
Sadly, it's illegal to sell homebrew, no matter how you slice it. Having someone pay you to brew&ferment them beer is different from having someone buy beer from you only in semantics. At the end of the day, someone is still giving you cash in exchange for alcoholic beverages. Illegal, period.
The best advice I can give you is have them buy all the ingredients, and bring it to you. You brew the beer, and give them half of it. You keep the other half. No money changes hands, you're just brewing beer for free, and giving some away to a friend.
Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
I dont think the OP is asking for a way to get around the laws or for someone to take over after the boil. Can he make beer from start to bottle and sell it legally? No. Not with out the proper permits anyways. Can he sell it anyways? Yes.
- Status
Similar threads
- Poll
