Can you get paid for home brewing beer

[duboman]

You mean like if they don't advertise it on the internet?



Seriously though. This is a common topic, and in general its about skirting rules. I don't like reading any of these threads on this site, as I think we should all be ambassadors to homebrewing and now that it's legal in all 50 states, keep it that way by not being a community of rule-skirters that draws the attention of regulators.



Thinks that's unrealistic? I'll tell you from first hand experience, a single call from a campground security guard to the local ABC office was the catalyst for the cancellation of the SoCal Homebrew Fest this year. There's plenty of pencil pushers just dying to lord their power over someone, anyone, and especially anyone who thinks they can flaunt the power of said pencil pushers.

+1


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[Trox]

Well I was just wondering

In the end the only way to know for sure is to contact your local/state officials in charge of the things and ask them; every state/municipality has different rules governing the distribution and sale of food products and/or the brewing of beer.

The only thing all states have in common is that the sale and/or bartering of alcohol for money, services, and/or other goods is flat out 100% illegal; no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

IMO since it has been such an uphill battle to get homebrewing legalized in all 50 states that if you think something might possibly be a grey area I wouldn't chance it.

 

[jbaysurfer]

Well I was just wondering

And I was just responding to your post. You're not always gonna get an answer you might like, but at least you're allowed to ask.

I don't think you're a bad guy or anything, I just think this topic merits an honest and direct answer.

 

[dackerm]

And I was just responding to your post. You're not always gonna get an answer you might like, but at least you're allowed to ask.



I don't think you're a bad guy or anything, I just think this topic merits an honest and direct answer.

I was just trying to find out of it was a grey area or not. I wasn't trying to be a rule skirter was what I was trying to say. I was asking so I wasn't a rule skirter.

 

[dackerm]

And I was just responding to your post. You're not always gonna get an answer you might like, but at least you're allowed to ask.



I don't think you're a bad guy or anything, I just think this topic merits an honest and direct answer.

I was just trying to find out of it was a grey area or not. I wasn't trying to be a rule skirter was what I was trying to say. I was asking so I wasn't a rule skirter

 

[phug]

If you're selling Unfermented wort it's no different than selling homemade cookies and what not. If you're doing any kind of volume you would need a food handling food prep license probably regulated by your municipality or state. Same premise as the u brew places. Your receipt will state that the sale is exclusive of the juice and the yeast. The regs also state that you must pitch your own yeast. So if you want to make it as semi kosher as possible have him sign something acknowledging that you're selling him Unfermented wort, and that he is responsible for adding the year which legally makes it into magical alcohol, and then both clam up and never tell anyone or the irs and the local bylaws people will come after you.


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[PackerfaninSanDiego]

some things are best left unsaid. When others here have said, "I think this or I think that", means they do not know.

 

[Hamaki]

http://www.ncsl.org/research/financ...me-manufacture-of-alcohol-state-statutes.aspx provides a summary of each state's laws. As near as I can figure out for California, where I live, section 23356.2 of the Business and Professions Code does not prevent me from brewing for a friend in their home. If that friend wants to pay me I don't see where that is prohibited so long as the limitation of 100 gal/single, 200 gal/multiple adults in that household is not exceeded. California state law appears to be aimed at limiting the sale of a product rather than the sale of a service. I don't know if there are regs associated with this statute or, better yet, case law.

If it were me and it was one time for a friend who wanted to buy the ingredients & give me a little something extra for my trouble I wouldn't think twice about it. More than that & I'd read up some more. Do your own research, seek qualified legal advice if warranted and make up your own mind.

 

[hunter_le five]

Sorry if some of us seem defensive when these topics come up, but it does come up A LOT, and we are quite protective of our hobby and its legal status.

Sadly, it's illegal to sell homebrew, no matter how you slice it. Having someone pay you to brew&ferment them beer is different from having someone buy beer from you only in semantics. At the end of the day, someone is still giving you cash in exchange for alcoholic beverages. Illegal, period.

The best advice I can give you is have them buy all the ingredients, and bring it to you. You brew the beer, and give them half of it. You keep the other half. No money changes hands, you're just brewing beer for free, and giving some away to a friend.


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[Jsamp]

I dont think the OP is asking for a way to get around the laws or for someone to take over after the boil. Can he make beer from start to bottle and sell it legally? No. Not with out the proper permits anyways. Can he sell it anyways? Yes.

 

[Phunhog]

http://www.ncsl.org/research/financ...me-manufacture-of-alcohol-state-statutes.aspx provides a summary of each state's laws. As near as I can figure out for California, where I live, section 23356.2 of the Business and Professions Code does not prevent me from brewing for a friend in their home. If that friend wants to pay me I don't see where that is prohibited so long as the limitation of 100 gal/single, 200 gal/multiple adults in that household is not exceeded. California state law appears to be aimed at limiting the sale of a product rather than the sale of a service. I don't know if there are regs associated with this statute or, better yet, case law.

If it were me and it was one time for a friend who wanted to buy the ingredients & give me a little something extra for my trouble I wouldn't think twice about it. More than that & I'd read up some more. Do your own research, seek qualified legal advice if warranted and make up your own mind.

That is an interesting way of looking at it and it actually makes sense. You are selling a service NOT a product. It reminds me of wealthy people who have "staff" like personal chefs. The chef is hired to prepare meals in a private home. The employer buys the food.....the chef is paid to prepare the food. The same could be said for brewing. The employer buys all the raw ingredients and the brewer is paid to brew the beer in a private residence. Heck....if you wanted to really get technical the "employer" could pitch the yeast and then you really have no issues.

 

[captjpr]

I've convinced myself that having my friends buy the ingredients and then giving them half the beer is harmless.

 

[CJ-3]

2 things to be aware of:

1) If you are being paid for making anything a person will injest you have to have insurance coverage in case your ingredients make a person sick. Even if it is an allergic reaction, you made it and you got paid to make it.

2) if you are being compensated for labor only and the person pays for all of the materials (note they are buying the materials, not paying you back for them. If you are being paid back for materials you fall under point number 1) you are at the bare minimum providing a service for payment in the food industry. You need to have a yearly inspection of your brewing equipment and also where you store it by a health inspector.

 

[Hamaki]

I notice this post on Craigslist that's been around awhile http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/for/4631935662.html. A person might contact them to ask if they've done any research on the legality of advertising to sell beer making lessons, including ingredients, at your place or theirs.

 

[MaddBaggins]

Teach your friend to brew.

 

[Teromous]

I'm glad I still live in a world where people can sell homemade decorated cakes on the side and kids can have lemonade stands without having to worry about getting sued because they don't have a food safety permit and umbrella insurance. It must suck to live in Lawyertown where children can't cut your grass until you provide them a set of steel toe boots and eye protection, and people feel worried to the point where they look up local policies on yard sales.

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

Last I looked into it, you could not receive compensation OF ANY KIND for homebrew - at least not without proper licensing, inspections, etc. In my case, I believe it was +$900 for the licensing.

We can get into the legalities of where yeast is pitched (someone offered to sell my beer on tap, as long as I pitched yeast in his FDA inspected kitchen) but....

The bottom line: it is hardly profitable to ever sell homebrew unless you have a veeeeery sweet, efficient set up. I've done the math something like this (with somewhat general numbers):
$40 for ingredients
$15 for bottles you won't get back
=$55 in material cost.

Labor: 6 hrs brewing, 2 hrs bottling = 8 hrs total time

Let's say you sell 50 bottles for $100 (thus they pay $2 per bottle, which obviously is on the high-middle end of a craft 6 pack). Subtract the materials, you have $45 in profit. Divide that by your labor, you receive $5.63/hr.

 

[Paradigm]

It's prboably illegal, but nobody is going to give a damn unless you try to turn it into a business. I sell my friends 6 packs of my beer for the cost of bottles and I'm not in the least bit worried.

 

[Hamaki]

I'm glad I still live in a world where people can sell homemade decorated cakes on the side and kids can have lemonade stands without having to worry about getting sued because they don't have a food safety permit and umbrella insurance. It must suck to live in Lawyertown where children can't cut your grass until you provide them a set of steel toe boots and eye protection, and people feel worried to the point where they look up local policies on yard sales.

On the other hand, sh!t happens. My son was doing some odd jobs for a disabled couple including splitting firewood. A log somehow popped up & broke off a couple of his teeth. If we didn't have good health insurance we'd have needed to look to those that hired him to help with the costs. One would think if that were the case they'd step up & do what they could to help cover the cost, but people can be funny...or broke.

 

[Gar]

Agree contractually to mow his lawn for $50 a mow. When you brew, take a pair of scissors and cut a couple blades of grass and collect your money. Then to celebrate your guys' successful business arrangement, gift him 50 bottles of homebrew.

isnt it against the law to share/give your beer? i dont know id go that route. id think id do it at his house and let him pitch the yeast then help him bottle.

 

[rekoob]

But at the end of the day, when there's anything that's a legal gray area, rule 1) don't trust a bunch of random people on the internet for advice and 2) don't announce on the internet that you plan on doing something of questionable legality.

I think the first step in keeping the grey areas grey is to not even talk about it, especially not here.

Just some clips of posts made already that stand out. Just in case you missed them.

 

[Clonefan94]

To answer your question, "Can you get paid to homebrew beer?" NO.

Sure there are plenty of things you can say that make you feel better about skirting laws, but in the end, no you can not brew beer at home and get paid for it. This has been discussed ad nauseam on this site. If you get paid any way shape or form, it is no longer homebrewing and therefore becomes a commercial operation.

Sorry to be such a downer, but every skirting the law option above has been mentioned and all have been proven to be false assumptions.

Basically, you either make beer for fun or you make beer for money. There is no in between.


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[Yooper]

isnt it against the law to share/give your beer? i dont know id go that route. id think id do it at his house and let him pitch the yeast then help him bottle.

In some states, yes. In some states, it is illegal to take homebrew out of your home where it was brewed, and can't even take it to your own vacation home or campsite.

In some states, you can give a limited amount of homebrew away per year to a friend, but not in others.

In no cases is it legal to sell or barter for homebrew. I know we've tried to make this into a gray area, but it isn't. Believe it or not, the Treasury Department and the ATF are not as stupid as they are made out to be, and the intent would be recognized.

The odds of getting caught are not great- just like with speeding most people do it and don't get caught but it doesn't make it legal.

Since we do not condone discussion of illegal activity, and we have about ten thousand posts already discussing "creative" ways to try to pretend to make it pseudo-legal, this conversation is not productive.