Can you Brew It recipe for Stone Arrogant Bastard

[uncleleon]

Need to use an English yeast at about 15 psi and 68 degrees in a 40 bbl conical to get the flavor right.

 

[TrickyDick]

Mine is carbonated and drinking good! side by Side comparison with photos coming soon. Having a friend try it also to see if it's "cloned" or not. I'm thinking one potential change would be elimination of first wort hops. AB has an aggressive bitterness to me and FWH is supposed to create a more smooth bittering. Next time will use some HOPSHOT extract in boil.
TD

 

[TrickyDick]

So had the side by side today. Friend came over to give his input too. He is also a craft beer fan and homebrewer.

So consensus is that the flavor is near indistinguishable. Body actually a little smoother on mine, ironically more alcohol presence in the Stone version. Mine has a little brighter hops, possibly due to freshness of the bottle? Don't know where to read the bottled on date for the AB bottle I had.

Mine remains slightly darker, but clearer - the Stone beer had a haze that never quite cleared. Color not off by much. Mine more enjoyable to drink, perhaps due to lower FG and less satiating to the palate, however, both are total palate wreckers in terms of the overpowering hops. GONE is the raisin-like flavors of version 1.0.

I'd post photos but, I'll probably add them later from my phone as an edit...

Overall, I think I might cut the chocolate malt addition in half to lower color, and maybe increase the Carapils to raise FG, IF I wanted an exact clone, however I think mine is more enjoyable to drink! Might cut the total grains to bring ABV down - mine was 1.072 OG/ 1.011 FG = 8.1% ABV, and STILL mine is smoother with less alcohol presence.

Photos pending.

I think CaraAroma is IT!

TD

 

[TrickyDick]

Here they are. Bad lighting. Mine is the darker one. Held up to the light the stone beer is hazy mine clear.

View attachment 1425429737585.jpg

View attachment 1425429749577.jpg

 

[reddskinnfan]

Glad to hear consensus on CaraAroma! I still think the Chocolate isn't needed, but will find out on my next batch.

P.S. I might split my next attempt between WLP007 Dry English and WLP013 London Ale.

 

[TrickyDick]

Yes I think chocolate probably not needed. The caraaroma really nails it. The chocolate I used as it was hinted at by some who are more in the know than I am. Mine turned out too dark so, there ya go. Mine also turned out stronger ABV wise. Odd, last time I nailed the numbers. This was 8.1% abv. Still. Mine has less alcohol bite. I wonder if they had temp issues with the batch I was drinking during fermentation, or maybe I fermented lower. Anyways, it's great beer and a great recipe any way you slice it.
I think my hopping rate was dead on, except perhaps swapping FWH for 90 minute addition or more likely a dose of hop extract. The FWH smoothness of the bittering I think is out of keeping with the Real AB

TD

 

[Isonad]

Is your hopping schedule the one with 6oz of home grown Chinook?

 

[TrickyDick]

Is your hopping schedule the one with 6oz of home grown Chinook?

Yeah that is mine. I posted the side by side pics.
I'd suggest maybe skipping the chocolate malt. That was a decision I made after a tour of a particular Escondido brewery. I think my recipe is good but for color my clone is too dark. I will.point out that many of my beers turn out darker than planned I suspect because I boil aggressively.

 

[TrickyDick]

Is your hopping schedule the one with 6oz of home grown Chinook?

Yeah that is mine. I posted the side by side pics.
I'd suggest maybe skipping the chocolate malt. That was a decision I made after a tour of a particular Escondido brewery. I think my recipe is good but for color my clone is too dark. I will.point out that many of my beers turn out darker than planned I suspect because I boil aggressively.

 

[stonebrewer]

Stone does a 90 minute boil, so aggressive boiling is probably okay with this beer.

Happiness is...thinking your last keg had kicked and finding 5 gallons of AB clone in the back of the cellar!! Woot! I gotta brew soon! Also found 5 gallons of cider, so I have time...was sweating bullets there for a few days thinking I had kicked everything...

I brewed this in DEC and it has certainly lost a lot of the hop bitterness, though the flavor is still there if that makes sense. Might be time to slap together the randall I keep meaning to build.

 

[Isonad]

My second stab at this was kegged today.......

....I really doubled up the hops for this round. I had FWH/60/45/30/20/15/10/5 minute additions at 2 oz each (goodbye Mr. 1 pound pellet hop pouch). For the steeping/flame-out/whirlpool hops I added my homegrown Chinook - 6 oz worth.

Hydro sample was bitter as to be expected, and I think will be on par with AB. Mine is also very light of body it seems, and that too seems in line with the real deal. I am very excited about this brew.


TD

What IBUs did you get with this hopping Sched? Planning on giving your version a whirl 5gallons though and no homegrown hops But a bit concerned it'll be over bitter compared to AB with that sched.

 

[TrickyDick]

I don't think it is possible to "over hop" this beer. My bitterness came out pretty dang close to the real stuff. I did an actual side by side comparison and posted my results earlier in this thread, probably not too far back from this point.
I don't recall the beersmith IBU prediction, but I suspect it was 100+ range.
As I used homegrown hops for the late additions, I'm not really sure about the actual IBUs. By tasting I can tell you that this recipe is probably 99% of what the real ab recipe is. I might remove the chocolate malt next time. The color is the hardest to nail. I would be cautious about underestimating the amount of bittering hops you need for this recipe. It is far easier to under-hop this beer, which ends up then being out of balance, and not very enjoyable.

TD

 

[Isonad]

Mashing is as we speak. BIAB version.
20litres
6kg 2-row - 91%
.5kg caraaroma 7.5%
.1kg carapils 1.5%

65c mash -60 mins
Chinook at
35g - 60min
30g -15 min
35g- 10min
40g -5 min
60g -flameout

Wlp007 -4l starter.

Have to say that the mash didn't look like 20srm... Time will tell

 

[BreezyBrew]

Had this beer over the weekend for the first time in a while. Probably not as fresh as it could be... I did notice the "spicy" character that this beer has. Do you guys think it's the hops that causes that? To me, it almost comes across as rye, but I could be wrong.

 

[crusader1612]

Had this beer over the weekend for the first time in a while. Probably not as fresh as it could be... I did notice the "spicy" character that this beer has. Do you guys think it's the hops that causes that? To me, it almost comes across as rye, but I could be wrong.

you sure its not the resin-y, Chinook taste?

 

[BreezyBrew]

you sure its not the resin-y, Chinook taste?

It certainly could be. Just pointing it out that there's a definite spicy note in there I don't get often from other IPAs. I have yet to make the recipe here so it may well be an existing component of the recipe.

 

[ultravista]

My Pliny the Bastard came out great. With 100% Chinook in the kettle, it was double dry hopped with Centennial, Chinook, Amarillo, and Cascade. With a base of 2 row, CaraAroma, CaraPils, and corn sugar, it fermented with WLP001.

The color is close to AB and the taste is out of this world.

A dry hopped AB would be awesome.

 

[Isonad]

Mashing is as we speak. BIAB version.
20litres
6kg 2-row - 91%
.5kg caraaroma 7.5%
.1kg carapils 1.5%

65c mash -60 mins
Chinook at
35g - 60min
30g -15 min
35g- 10min
40g -5 min
60g -flameout

Wlp007 -4l starter.

Have to say that the mash didn't look like 20srm... Time will tell

Bottled this on the weekend.despite my comment above the colour turned out a brilliant scarlet - very similar to the original. The sample i tasted at bottling didn't have the bitterness of the original though but I'll know more when it has conditioned for a few weeks.

 

[reddskinnfan]

Bottled this on the weekend.despite my comment above the colour turned out a brilliant scarlet - very similar to the original. The sample i tasted at bottling didn't have the bitterness of the original though but I'll know more when it has conditioned for a few weeks.

Yeah, I think the key to bitterness and hop character is Gypsum. I am thinking somewhere between 350-450ppm.

I think the grain bill that I used is spot on. The rest is the hops/water profile.

Again, this is my opinion.

 

[Isonad]

I added gypsum but probably a bit shy of 350ppm. A couple of weeks till official taste test and side by side so hard to say right now but at a guess I'd say I'd need to up 60min hops by ~20g and maybe even add a 30min addition.

 

[fixitoscar]

here is my report for my 3rd version of ab. I'm still in the c150 club. A couple changes to my process. I am now using a pump to whirlpool and decrease my cooling times quite a bit from just stirring with an immersion chiller. I am kegging now also. I really like chasing this recipe.

5.5 gal 75% eff
13# 10 oz 2 row
1#4.1 oz c150
6.7 oz c75
4.2 oz chocolate malt 350 srm
2.31 oz chinook 90 min
1.06 oz chinook 13 min
.53 oz chinook 5 min
1.57 oz chinook 0-whirlpool
wlp007
24.4 srm 121 ibu 1.076 sg

tasting and pics to follow shortly.
time to drink side by side.
see my previous recipes and results in this thread. Main changes from last time are, I raised hops and subbed chocolate malt for some c150 keeping the same srm I had before.

overall this one is extremely close. I'm no longer splitting logs I'm splitting hairs.
the color is so darn close. mine slightly darker,not even a full srm in my opinion. but I got the red color I was looking for with the chocolate.
Hops are very very close. Ab edges mine out on bitterness. Both have that nice resiny lingering finish. Stones ab hop finish lasts a little longer than mine. The hops are very close.
ahh the malts... malt flavor is very close. The only difference I can taste is mine has a light sweetness that ab does not. i don't know why I left the c75 in the recipe. I'm sure that is part of it.

I will make some small changes for next time. I'll leave out the c75 and pull a bit of c150 to drop one srm point. I'll make my 90 min 2.5oz i will move my hops around to get more inline with what stone does. combine both the 15 min and 5 min addition and make them both 5 min. for 1.6oz
Last thing I will do is add some more gypsum. to highlight the hops more than I have previously.

mine on the left

 

[ol-hazza]

Dilemma on hand. Ready to brew 6 gal tomorrow, but have one sachet of s-04 or 2 of us-05. What do i go with?

 

[reddskinnfan]

I would go with s-04 and half sachet of us-05, personally.

 

[IslandLizard]

Dilemma on hand. Ready to brew 6 gal tomorrow, but have one sachet of s-04 or 2 of us-05. What do i go with?

S-04, no doubt, you want the English Ale characteristics. It's the dry equivalent to WY1098 and WLP007.

Rehydrate according to the Safale instructions and pitch after thorough aeration/oxygenation.

 

[TrickyDick]

I'm in general agreement with redskinfan.

I have made good beers with s04, but have also had misfortune of under attenuation which I blame entirely on that strain. I will never willingly use it again.

TD

 

[IslandLizard]

I'm in general agreement with redskinfan.

I have made good beers with s04, but have also had misfortune of under attenuation which I blame entirely on that strain. I will never willingly use it again.

TD

It's important to keep the ferm temp constant with S-04 and raise it slowly toward the end so it can finish out. A drop of 2-3°F can lure it into dormancy. It takes a handsome prince to wake her up.

I had an old ale that got stuck at 1.028 most likely because of that slight drop overnight.

S-04 is the Dry Whitbread strain which allegedly is Stone's house yeast.

But if you like Chico, go with it.

 

[ol-hazza]

Its redskins recipe which im bastardising (i have a patriotic need to always use some new zealand hops) so will go with his advice. Have full temp control so thats not an issue. With the 04/05 mix what temp would you ferment at?


Cheers for the advice guys

 

[reddskinnfan]

Start at 68. Keep there for 2 days, then raise to 72 for 2 days. Raise to 75 for 2 days. Check gravity for consistent readings across days after that.

Also, I would add about Gypsum to get to 350-400 ppm.

 

[ol-hazza]

Dont have any gypsum unfortunately.

 

[reddskinnfan]

Can you get some before brew day? It is necessary for full effect if hops.