Can you Brew It recipe for Stone Arrogant Bastard

[ol-hazza]

Oh and an important bit of info i missed out, its a 5 gal batch

 

[ol-hazza]

Can you get some before brew day? It is necessary for full effect if hops.

I was brewing at the time unfortunately. Currently in the fermenter and smells amazing.

 

[Isonad]

Here's my effort with caraaroma and a touch of carapils. Mostly care of redskins recipe. Despite my crap photo main difference between the two colour wise is filtering. Stones is much clearer. Malt profile is bang on in my limited Australian experience of this beer. Hops are close but mine is more floral/piney and a tad less bitter but very very close. I'm super happy with this beer and will be Brewing it again regularly. I will definitely gelatine the beer next time to clear it and maybe shift some of the late hops back to early additions.

 

[reddskinnfan]

Here's my effort with caraaroma and a touch of carapils. Mostly care of redskins recipe. Despite my crap photo main difference between the two colour wise is filtering. Stones is much clearer. Malt profile is bang on in my limited Australian experience of this beer. Hops are close but mine is more floral/piney and a tad less bitter but very very close. I'm super happy with this beer and will be Brewing it again regularly. I will definitely gelatine the beer next time to clear it and maybe shift some of the late hops back to early additions.

Mind sharing your exact recipe? It will only help the group in their effort!

Glad I was able to help further this adventure along with the choice of CaraAroma, but there have been others who have contributed just as much to this.

I think for my next attempt I am going to use a Hop Extract addition and the rest of the hops in the hopstand.

 

[TrickyDick]

I did some hopshot extract in mine plus the original hops for bitterness. Forgot to mention that. I think the bitterness and hop profile was spot on. Mine was better clarity wise, and color as close as I could've hoped. I think the next time - omit the chocolate malt which was suggested when I paid a visit to a certain place in Escondido a while back. I think was slightly out of place. At any rate, I think that if you gave the beer to a AB regular drinking person, that they'd be very hard pressed to pick the real AB from my second shot at this using CaraAroma, CaraPils and Chocolate for specialty malt. I'd eliminate the Chocolate next time. I still have another keg of this too! It probably faded in the hop department a bit, but life's been busy...

Personally, I think this beer is now cloned officially.

TD

 

[Isonad]

No worries. Here's the recipe posted at #103.

21litres
6kg 2-row - 91%
.5kg caraaroma 7.5%
.1kg carapils 1.5%

65c mash -60 mins
Chinook at
35g - 60min
30g -15 min
35g- 10min
40g -5 min
60g -flameout

Wlp007 -4l starter.

I also added some gypsum to the mash.

 

[Plainer]

Great ongoing thread here, started reading at page 80 or so. I am relatively new to brewing but thought I would chime in. Brewed this 2 weeks back in my BIAB setup. I have been lacking hop flavour in my recent brews so I moved the hops to late additions and increased them. Similar to Isonad. I also predict that it would be closer to original if I increase the bittering addition instead.

Here in Norway I can’t get my hands on AB, but had some a couple months back when I was home so I will need to do my best memory comparison when complete. My fermentation was a bit on the cold side 64-65 deg. and stalled out at 1.019 so it won’t be dry enough, but I will fix that next time around. Either way, the taste on the gravity reading was good.

16L batch.
4.6 kg 2 row
0.5 kg Caraaroma
0.1 kg Carapils
20g chinook 90 min
33g chinook 15 min
35g chinook 5min
Wlp007

 

[stonebrewer]

So I am sipping on a glass from a DEC 14 10 gallon batch. I have a sixer of Bourbon Barrel Aged in the fridge. This is REALLLLLLLY close to the BBA AB! I mean so close I can barely detect differences between them (mainly a slight trace of barrel). It is still quite bitter, aroma has faded somewhat, but as someone said above close enough that it is cloned! I am a regular AB brewer and drinker...this is so close, I can barely detect differences and I am not sure which I like best...okay I love them both!! Brew this recipe and you will love it. It is a fantastic example of hop forward, strong ale. Stone, you did good!

I was just in SD for two weeks and had my share of Stone beers, among the MANY other fantastic SD breweries. If you get a chance to go there, do it!! You can literally drive to 100 breweries in a day, as long as you don't stop and drink beer. Where is the fun in that?

Cheers!

 

[jmtwo]

Sorry guys. Normally I would take the time to read through a thread to get the info needed, but at 106 pages... ?

Can someone point me to the recipe that they think is cloned?

Thanks.

 

[IslandLizard]

Sorry guys. Normally I would take the time to read through a thread to get the info needed, but at 106 pages... ?

Can someone point me to the recipe that they think is cloned?

Thanks.

If you set your preferences to 40 messages per page, like I do, it's only 27 pages.

Seriously, it's way less browsing that way.

Read backwards from the last and you'll see the recent efforts and comments on those. I've brewed reddskinnfan's original recipe, the first one that uses Cararoma, twice. Although a decent cloning effort, not quite there on my system, as it lacked in bitterness, hop aroma and hop flavor. There is more to brewing clones than a recipe, process plays a big role too.

He posted a modified recipe on post 1004.

 

[TrickyDick]

If you set your preferences to 40 messages per page, like I do, it's only 27 pages.

Seriously, it's way less browsing that way.

Read backwards from the last and you'll see the recent efforts and comments on those. I've brewed reddskinnfan's original recipe, the first one that uses Cararoma, twice. Although a decent cloning effort, not quite there on my system, as it lacked in bitterness, hop aroma and hop flavor. There is more to brewing clones than a recipe, process plays a big role too.

He posted a modified recipe on post 1004.

I agree about the bitterness.

my grain bill was as follows, but I think can eliminate the chocolate and just go with CaraAroma and a pinch of carapils. This was all based on redskin's recipe, I think the first to use caraaroma, which is most definitely THE specialty malt in AB.

91.8% 2 Row
6.2% CaraAroma
1.3% CaraPils
0.7% Chocolate 475º

Color is the hardest part to nail. I dialed my brewing software in to 18.7 SRM by tweaking the % of CaraAroma and Chocolate. I suggest you do the same for you batch size using software. Dump the chocolate and bump the caraaroma as appropriate.

For hops, its easy. You cannot over hop this beer I tried and it came out I think fairly spot on if you read my side by side tasting with photos from my last effort. I used only a 60 minute boil for 10 gallons. I'd halve those additions for a 5 gallon batch down to 1oz each.

2 oz additions: FWH/60/45/30/20/15/10/5/0.
also I added a full syringe of HopShot at 60 minutes once boiling.
also at flame out I also added about 6 oz of homegrown Chinook hops from my garden (they were dried and frozen).

If you wanted to do a 90 minute boil, I'd keep the same and just add more hops up-stream with extra additions each 15 minutes: 90 & 75 min.

Be sure to add enough sulfate and have proper water chemistry for this beer.

TD

 

[Gerry_P]

Great thread, thanks to everyone who contributed. It's been a few months since I had an AB (bottled), and a few years before that I had lots of it on draft at the now defunct Bailey's in Germantown MD (my former county of residence). I first tried bottled AB about 12 or 13 years ago. Now, my memory could be failing me but I don't remember previous samples of AB having as much of a roasty flavor as the most recent one. Maybe I'm imagining things, or maybe my palate changed, but something seems a little different.

 

[TrickyDick]

And then, there is this:

https://www.brewdog.com/lowdown/blog/brewdog-adopts-a-bastard

Maybe they were trolling and found we already cracked the code!!

TD

 

[kingwood-kid]

Thanks to all of you who contributed here. I brewed Bastard saiSon, a recipe inspired by the collective effort, and fermented it at 100F with WY3724. Delicious.

 

[Plainer]

Great ongoing thread here, started reading at page 80 or so. I am relatively new to brewing but thought I would chime in. Brewed this 2 weeks back in my BIAB setup. I have been lacking hop flavour in my recent brews so I moved the hops to late additions and increased them. Similar to Isonad. I also predict that it would be closer to original if I increase the bittering addition instead.

Here in Norway I can’t get my hands on AB, but had some a couple months back when I was home so I will need to do my best memory comparison when complete. My fermentation was a bit on the cold side 64-65 deg. and stalled out at 1.019 so it won’t be dry enough, but I will fix that next time around. Either way, the taste on the gravity reading was good.

16L batch.
4.6 kg 2 row
0.5 kg Caraaroma
0.1 kg Carapils
20g chinook 90 min
33g chinook 15 min
35g chinook 5min
Wlp007

Update on mine. It has become a contaminated brew but only mildly. Before the off flavor was noticeable it was a great tasting beer, but a bit heavy in body compared to the real thing and I would say its important to hit your gravity to make this as drinkable as the real thing. Also as the key contributors have said, you can go heavy on the bittering hops, I would say that I did not have enough bittering in my recipe.

On a side note, with the contamination in mine as the off flavor worsens its drinkability is declining so I have taken to watering it down. It may be a crime to the clone, but this beer has so much bittering and body that even at a 50/50 mix it becomes a nice dark mild type beer with a hoppy aftertaste for a warm afternoon (with an off twist). Heck of a lot better than dumping it.

 

[Gerry_P]

And then, there is this:

https://www.brewdog.com/lowdown/blog/brewdog-adopts-a-bastard

Maybe they were trolling and found we already cracked the code!!

TD

"In June, Stone officially sent the bastard packing, never to return to their beery citadel."

What...the...f***???

 

[fixitoscar]

hmm who to believe stonebrew.com or brewdog.com :fro:

 

[jageraholic]

hmm who to believe stonebrew.com or brewdog.com :fro:

Both actually, as a fundraiser for charity Stone is having other breweries brew Arrogant Bastard and it will be released on tap. Maine Beer Company brewed a batch a few weeks ago.

http://road.arrogantbastard.com

 

[Gerry_P]

Both actually, as a fundraiser for charity Stone is having other breweries brew Arrogant Bastard and it will be released on tap. Maine Beer Company brewed a batch a few weeks ago.

http://road.arrogantbastard.com

Screw 'em! We have this thread, we'll make our own damn Arrogant Bastard, maybe kinda sorta.

 

[fixitoscar]

Both actually, as a fundraiser for charity Stone is having other breweries brew Arrogant Bastard and it will be released on tap. Maine Beer Company brewed a batch a few weeks ago.

http://road.arrogantbastard.com

pretty cool thanks for the link. Now lets have that recipe....

 

[TriggerFingers]

Just brewed the 845 recipe....as a mini mash, partial boil....

Mashed at 149/150 for just under 1 hour. Topped up with 2 gallons of water. Still my OG was high. Brought it down to 1.077.

Rehydrated 2 packets of S-04. Beer took off like a rocket. Looks and smells amazing! I am going to be oaking this one as oaked AB is my favorite of all the bastard variants.

I'll report back how close this is.

 

[Calder]

Looking for something to brew with WLP644, Brett-Trois (and for those who don't know, it is not a Brett strain, so lets not have the discussion about Brett in the beer). I was wondering how the basic AB recipe would go with that yeast.

Yes, I realize it is not going to be AB, and will be a lot fruitier, but wanted some input from AB aficionados as to whether they think this has the potential to be an interesting experiment, or a disaster.

90% Pale Malt
10% Cara Aroma
Chinook Hops
WLP644 (Brett Trois)

 

[reddskinnfan]

Looking for something to brew with WLP644, Brett-Trois (and for those who don't know, it is not a Brett strain, so lets not have the discussion about Brett in the beer). I was wondering how the basic AB recipe would go with that yeast.

Yes, I realize it is not going to be AB, and will be a lot fruitier, but wanted some input from AB aficionados as to whether they think this has the potential to be an interesting experiment, or a disaster.

90% Pale Malt
10% Cara Aroma
Chinook Hops
WLP644 (Brett Trois)

You can do it!

 

[kingwood-kid]

Looking for something to brew with WLP644, Brett-Trois (and for those who don't know, it is not a Brett strain, so lets not have the discussion about Brett in the beer). I was wondering how the basic AB recipe would go with that yeast.

Yes, I realize it is not going to be AB, and will be a lot fruitier, but wanted some input from AB aficionados as to whether they think this has the potential to be an interesting experiment, or a disaster.

90% Pale Malt
10% Cara Aroma
Chinook Hops
WLP644 (Brett Trois)

As the person who made it with Dupont yeast, I support the experimentation. Although it does not necessarily make for better beer, the ability to pair virtually any adjective with "bastard" makes this an excellent recipe to play with.

 

[TriggerFingers]

So just to update....

The beer finished around 1.013 so its about 8.5 %. A bit bigger than AB. Color is very close as is the bitterness. Very fruity flavor. My one issue was using Safale 04. If I brew this again I will pick any yeast except S-04. Ferm temp got a little warm and the yeast threw off an almost tangy flavor. Ugh. Seriously, don't use Safale 04!

2 days into the week long oak treatment (2 oz med oak chips), it seems like the beer is "turning the corner." The oak is amplifying the perception of bitterness and covering that tang. Also, just decided to add a little dry hop for a few days to beef up the aroma. I think this is going to be delicious.

 

[crusader1612]

So just to update....

The beer finished around 1.013 so its about 8.5 %. A bit bigger than AB. Color is very close as is the bitterness. Very fruity flavor. My one issue was using Safale 04. If I brew this again I will pick any yeast except S-04. Ferm temp got a little warm and the yeast threw off an almost tangy flavor. Ugh. Seriously, don't use Safale 04!

2 days into the week long oak treatment (2 oz med oak chips), it seems like the beer is "turning the corner." The oak is amplifying the perception of bitterness and covering that tang. Also, just decided to add a little dry hop for a few days to beef up the aroma. I think this is going to be delicious.

what was your ferm temp on this yeast?

 

[TriggerFingers]

Ambient air was 70F. I know the internal temp can be 8-10 degrees higher than ambient. It felt slightly warm to the touch during fermentation. Have never had any issues with Nottingham or Safale 05...ever. But never again with S-04. Just read up on the S-04 tang. It would make a great cider.

 

[crusader1612]

Ambient air was 70F. I know the internal temp can be 8-10 degrees higher than ambient. It felt slightly warm to the touch during fermentation. Have never had any issues with Nottingham or Safale 05...ever. But never again with S-04. Just read up on the S-04 tang. It would make a great cider.

Thers your problem, if you use this yeast, a nice low temp is best.
70F Ambient is too high, meaning you temp is a few degrees warmer, which will throw off all sorts of weird esters and flavours. which is what your talking about.
If you sit at 63/64 you'll get some esters, but it'll be restrained.
IMO.
Plus the possible temp swings that can occur when fermenting at ambient.

 

[TriggerFingers]

Thers your problem, if you use this yeast, a nice low temp is best.
70F Ambient is too high, meaning you temp is a few degrees warmer, which will throw off all sorts of weird esters and flavours. which is what your talking about.
If you sit at 63/64 you'll get some esters, but it'll be restrained.
IMO.
Plus the possible temp swings that can occur when fermenting at ambient.

Which is why I said, if you can't keep temps in check, go with another yeast. I'd rather have neutral yeast character than unwanted esters.

 

[TriggerFingers]

So bottled this....and I have to say after 1 week... Its tasty. My wife said "tastes like a brown IPA." I can pick a roasty, almost coffee note from it. Cidery note from the yeast is very muted. This is drinking rather well so young.

I'd say its fairly close to AB. Color looks spot on. I oaked mine, but am not really getting it.

So I would say in the future...2 oz oak chips for at least 10 days (I did 7 this time). Also, calculate maybe a touch more gypsum next time around. With the hop shot my calculated ibu's were around 105. It feels right, but not enough bite in front palate.