applescrap
Be the ball!
My dad just gave me a bottle of mead and it has a ton of sediment on the bottom? I think its really old. Do they get sentiment? I think it's called Los carnos or something.
Can you age a mead too long?
- Thread starter Kneller
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk:
Sure. Honey proteins can drop out over time. So can tannin from oaking. Dunno that "tons" of sediment would happen with a well crafted mead, but even what looks like perfectly clear mead at bottling can drop some dust eventually. That's why modern methods use fining agents and filtering.
Blacksmith1
Captain Cheap
It might be easier to share the title of the book.
Let there be Melomels! Fruit Meads designed to inspire your Imagination By: Robert Ratliff
After going back to read it a bit more carefully it seems he is doing traditional recipes using modern methods. They still require long aging though.
Blacksmith1
Captain Cheap
they can have sediment if there is some sort.of solids still in suspension when it gets bottled.
As for sentiment? I don't think meads care about anything....
They are very sensitive liquids....they can have sediment if there is some sort.of solids still in suspension when it gets bottled.
As for sentiment? I don't think meads care about anything....
applescrap
Be the ball!
Thanks guys! In a sentimental mood by sonny stitt [emoji854] talking about their age makes them very sensitive. It was a light golden and since disturbing the gunk it looks like this. It's more orange brown rust colored.
![Craft A Brew - Safale S-04 Dry Yeast - Fermentis - English Ale Dry Yeast - For English and American Ales and Hard Apple Ciders - Ingredients for Home Brewing - Beer Making Supplies - [1 Pack]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41fVGNh6JfL._SL500_.jpg)
Blacksmith1
Captain Cheap
That looks like a light layer on the very bottom. I've had commercial wines with that type of sediment. Just pour carefully and be ready for some crud on the last glass.
As long as it tastes good don't sweat it.
edit: forgot to add, let it settle again....
As long as it tastes good don't sweat it.
edit: forgot to add, let it settle again....
Last edited:
Cavpilot2000
Well-Known Member
Depends on how you store it. Oxidation will ruin mead just like any other alcohol-based drink (other than sherry and tawny port, of course, which rely on oxidation for their characteristic flavors).
CKuhns
Everything learned in Kindergarten still applies!
Great question.
I have Meads in storage 60-64 Deg F and in the dark aged in beer bottles for up to 6 years with oxygen barrier crown caps and wax seals- Higher ABV 15 - 18% using a staggered nutrient protocol (Most a SNA protocol, not really TOSNA or 2.0 or 3.0) and adding spices, fruit, hops etc in secondary with tea's or juices in primary
Here are my observations
- Show (Traditional) - Continues to get better with age. I have a few 6 Year that I wish I would have put more aside.
- JAOM - Continues to get better with age. I have one at 4 Years that is very good but at 2 years I was not happy with at all..
- Melomels (Fruit in secondary) - Peak at about 2 years - IMO Does not get appreciably worse but not really any better either after 2 years.
- Methaglins = (Spices) Start to lose some of the spice flavor at 9-12 months and a lot over time, cinnamon, vanilla etc tends to disappear, hot peppers and Hop flavors stay pretty well and even if some of the spice fade over time the base mead does seem to continue to do better with age.
- Cysers (Apple or other juices) usually spiced and oaked as well - Continue to get better with age and for some reason does require more time than other meads. IDK???
- Hydromel - (Low ABV 6 - 7%) Just started some of these this past year using a modified TOSNA 3.0 (All up front) and Groenfell Quick Mead techniques (Similar to BOMM) juice or fruit in primary and filtered with a 5 and 1 micron filter set up (because I like a nice clear glass.) good at 2 months great at 4 - 6 - Nothing has lasted much longer as I keg and carb and drink them more like cider or beer.
The interesting thing is i have a number of higher ABV meads using TOSNA 2.0 (and more recently 3.0) with much better conditions and protocols that are good to great a lot quicker. A 4 - 6 year result early on now is achieved in 12 - 24 months and 2 - 4 year results in less than a year. Yeast selection, temperature, consistent quality ingredients, nutrients, aeration, time on lees fruit or spices, CO2 release and clarifying IMO all play a part. I have no idea how much each plays a part but what I do and how I do it works for me
I have Meads in storage 60-64 Deg F and in the dark aged in beer bottles for up to 6 years with oxygen barrier crown caps and wax seals- Higher ABV 15 - 18% using a staggered nutrient protocol (Most a SNA protocol, not really TOSNA or 2.0 or 3.0) and adding spices, fruit, hops etc in secondary with tea's or juices in primary
Here are my observations
- Show (Traditional) - Continues to get better with age. I have a few 6 Year that I wish I would have put more aside.
- JAOM - Continues to get better with age. I have one at 4 Years that is very good but at 2 years I was not happy with at all..
- Melomels (Fruit in secondary) - Peak at about 2 years - IMO Does not get appreciably worse but not really any better either after 2 years.
- Methaglins = (Spices) Start to lose some of the spice flavor at 9-12 months and a lot over time, cinnamon, vanilla etc tends to disappear, hot peppers and Hop flavors stay pretty well and even if some of the spice fade over time the base mead does seem to continue to do better with age.
- Cysers (Apple or other juices) usually spiced and oaked as well - Continue to get better with age and for some reason does require more time than other meads. IDK???
- Hydromel - (Low ABV 6 - 7%) Just started some of these this past year using a modified TOSNA 3.0 (All up front) and Groenfell Quick Mead techniques (Similar to BOMM) juice or fruit in primary and filtered with a 5 and 1 micron filter set up (because I like a nice clear glass.) good at 2 months great at 4 - 6 - Nothing has lasted much longer as I keg and carb and drink them more like cider or beer.
The interesting thing is i have a number of higher ABV meads using TOSNA 2.0 (and more recently 3.0) with much better conditions and protocols that are good to great a lot quicker. A 4 - 6 year result early on now is achieved in 12 - 24 months and 2 - 4 year results in less than a year. Yeast selection, temperature, consistent quality ingredients, nutrients, aeration, time on lees fruit or spices, CO2 release and clarifying IMO all play a part. I have no idea how much each plays a part but what I do and how I do it works for me
Great question.
I have Meads in storage 60-64 Deg F and in the dark aged in beer bottles for up to 6 years with oxygen barrier crown caps and wax seals- Higher ABV 15 - 18% using a staggered nutrient protocol (Most a SNA protocol, not really TOSNA or 2.0 or 3.0) and adding spices, fruit, hops etc in secondary with tea's or juices in primary
Here are my observations
- Show (Traditional) - Continues to get better with age. I have a few 6 Year that I wish I would have put more aside.
- JAOM - Continues to get better with age. I have one at 4 Years that is very good but at 2 years I was not happy with at all..
- Melomels (Fruit in secondary) - Peak at about 2 years - IMO Does not get appreciably worse but not really any better either after 2 years.
- Methaglins = (Spices) Start to lose some of the spice flavor at 9-12 months and a lot over time, cinnamon, vanilla etc tends to disappear, hot peppers and Hop flavors stay pretty well and even if some of the spice fade over time the base mead does seem to continue to do better with age.
- Cysers (Apple or other juices) usually spiced and oaked as well - Continue to get better with age and for some reason does require more time than other meads. IDK???
- Hydromel - (Low ABV 6 - 7%) Just started some of these this past year using a modified TOSNA 3.0 (All up front) and Groenfell Quick Mead techniques (Similar to BOMM) juice or fruit in primary and filtered with a 5 and 1 micron filter set up (because I like a nice clear glass.) good at 2 months great at 4 - 6 - Nothing has lasted much longer as I keg and carb and drink them more like cider or beer.
The interesting thing is i have a number of higher ABV meads using TOSNA 2.0 (and more recently 3.0) with much better conditions and protocols that are good to great a lot quicker. A 4 - 6 year result early on now is achieved in 12 - 24 months and 2 - 4 year results in less than a year. Yeast selection, temperature, consistent quality ingredients, nutrients, aeration, time on lees fruit or spices, CO2 release and clarifying IMO all play a part. I have no idea how much each plays a part but what I do and how I do it works for me
Thanks for your awesome post!
If I'm reading you right, using TOSNA may save a lot of time and is all upside and no downside.
Seamonkey84
Well-Known Member
I’m a newbie to this, but as I understand it, it’s stressed yeast (or wrong choice of yeast) that causes a certain brew to need to be aged longer. The off flavors and aromas are produced when the yeast aren’t performing at their prime. So step feeding nutrients and degassing using which ever protocol you go by, is going to reduce stress on the yeast. The traditional set it and forget it approach, using the same amounts of nutrients up front (or none at all), does of course work, but then you need to age it.
Since I started this hobby in April, I’ve made 7 various batches. Two set it and forget it, and now on my 5th BOMM style. The first two gallons started in April (a cyser and a juice wine) I can’t even think about trying based on smell alone. The BOMMs (Melomel and others done with sugar in fruit wines) have mostly all been pleasant at sampling.
Modern protocols have drastically reduced the time required for a mead to be drinkable. I made a gallon batch of clover BOMM that never made it past 3 months. It was delicious.
CKuhns
Everything learned in Kindergarten still applies!
Yes IMO TOSNA lots of upside for Higher ABV Mead.
I wouldn't say no downside. The trick is finding the TOSNA protocol and technique that works well with your recipe and ingredients and then perfecting it to promote ageing as quickly as practical. The downside is that when you change something with your recipe or experiment a bit TOSNA may not work as well until you again figure it out a bit.
Example - When I went to lower ABV Meads using TOSNA 3.0 protocol I initially had OK results but quickly realized by using some of the best (Not all) techniques from BernardSmiths posts and recipes, Denards BOMM, Groenfell Meadery and TOSNA 3.0 I achieved a very quick ferment and something very pleasant in a very short period of time.
To answer the TOSNA question for low ABV Mead my practice really is not a TOSNA per-say as there is no staggered additions the fermaid-O weight as calculated using TOSNA 3.0 criteria is added in the yeast starter and all up-front.
I wouldn't say no downside. The trick is finding the TOSNA protocol and technique that works well with your recipe and ingredients and then perfecting it to promote ageing as quickly as practical. The downside is that when you change something with your recipe or experiment a bit TOSNA may not work as well until you again figure it out a bit.
Example - When I went to lower ABV Meads using TOSNA 3.0 protocol I initially had OK results but quickly realized by using some of the best (Not all) techniques from BernardSmiths posts and recipes, Denards BOMM, Groenfell Meadery and TOSNA 3.0 I achieved a very quick ferment and something very pleasant in a very short period of time.
To answer the TOSNA question for low ABV Mead my practice really is not a TOSNA per-say as there is no staggered additions the fermaid-O weight as calculated using TOSNA 3.0 criteria is added in the yeast starter and all up-front.
as I've gotten better I generally plan to leave big sweet Polish meads alone for 2, preferably 3 years. The number was higher when I was less experienced.
What is it that you're doing that reduces it from 15 years down to 2 or 3?
well I never said 15, to be fair. I haven't even been doing this hobby quite 15 years yet. And I would simply say I got better at keeping my yeast happy, and the resulting product was smoother and more drinkable, more quickly.
ItsHammerTime
New Member
In the first week after my daughter was born, I brewed a mead, a case of which I plan to present to her on her 21st birthday. I have a number of extra bottles for annual or biannual tasting along the way. Two years in, it is aging very nicely - I am excited to see if it keeps improving or at least holds up as the years pass.
SoberEwe
New2Mead
Hope this thread isn't dead.
Just starting mead making and I'm making a mix of a melomel and and metheglin, or maybe it's just one or the other, not sure yet. Based off of a non-alcoholic recipe I have found, tweaked, bottled and it accidentally started fermenting on its own. It's delicious to drink as-is, or spiking with vodka or gin, and trying some of the mid-ferment stuff, it catapulted me down this path. Since then, I have been learning as much as I can about the process and think I've got a pretty good start. My recipe is fruit-heavy with oranges, lemons, apple juice, black and juniper berries, also with a bit of cinnamon and nutmeg.
I guess I'm really asking for guidance here. I'm using Wyeast 4184. Would my mead benefit from doing 2 fermentations? Or could I throw everything in and ferment? Planning on Back-sweetening, and would I need to provide nutrients? I'd like to get as high as an ABV as possible but want to simplify this process as much as possible. And then how do long would any of you think I should age it? I'm aware a lot of these questions I could answer through time, effort and learning curves, but I like to start out on things I've never done before with good information from people who've done the work already and have experience to help me get a good base.
Just starting mead making and I'm making a mix of a melomel and and metheglin, or maybe it's just one or the other, not sure yet. Based off of a non-alcoholic recipe I have found, tweaked, bottled and it accidentally started fermenting on its own. It's delicious to drink as-is, or spiking with vodka or gin, and trying some of the mid-ferment stuff, it catapulted me down this path. Since then, I have been learning as much as I can about the process and think I've got a pretty good start. My recipe is fruit-heavy with oranges, lemons, apple juice, black and juniper berries, also with a bit of cinnamon and nutmeg.
I guess I'm really asking for guidance here. I'm using Wyeast 4184. Would my mead benefit from doing 2 fermentations? Or could I throw everything in and ferment? Planning on Back-sweetening, and would I need to provide nutrients? I'd like to get as high as an ABV as possible but want to simplify this process as much as possible. And then how do long would any of you think I should age it? I'm aware a lot of these questions I could answer through time, effort and learning curves, but I like to start out on things I've never done before with good information from people who've done the work already and have experience to help me get a good base.
I have a gallon a mead I made maybe 6 or 7 yrs ago untouched in a glass jug sealed with minimal head space in the back of my spare fridge. It was sweetened with Asian pear juice and still the same yellowish clear so does not appear oxidized. I need to check it and if still good will bottle and report back.
I had a cherry mead in a 5 gal glass carboy that sat for 2+ years before bottling in wine bottles. I drank them over the next couple of years. Every bottle was outstanding.
Pogue mahone
Member
Not dead, just well aged.
Sorry!
I couldn't resist
I am two weeks beyond where you are now, lol. I have a Mango-Ginger Mead that I have put down. We are in the same boat. I did do a mead in the distant past. It served as some experience with the process. It sat in the 5 gallon carboy for a year, every time I moved the carboy to rack it, fermentation would reactivate. After a year, we moved and I had to bottle. I bottled in beer bottles and would sample about monthly. The mead definitely got better over time, the final bottle was consumed several years later.
I have to say that following the proper sanitary practices is probably the most important step! Sanitize everything that may come in contact with the must and, later, the mead. Honey is so concentrated and acidic that mold will not survive. It does not require sterilization. Just dump it into your sterilized primary with bottled water to volume with all other ingredients, add yeast and cover with an airlock.
I recommend that you research the process and assemble equipment before you start. You will need a way to test specific gravity https://www.walmart.com/ip/Specific...-Jar/662270548?classType=REGULAR&from=/search
and a way of testing pH https://www.walmart.com/ip/5-1-Wate...riu/3417986221?classType=REGULAR&from=/search
Someone had forgotten mead on a soda bottle for 5 years. Soda bottles are oxygen permeable and by everything I have read, the mead should have been oxidized, but the mead was good.
Mead when made with reasonable processes (Sanitation and O2 management) will last for a very long time. In my experience the weak link to aging meads tend to be how the bottle is sealed (can the cork or cap last 15 years). Oxygen exposure is a problem, but nothing like wine or beer. I have left half consumed meads (closed in some fashion) on the counter for month or more with no real decline.
