Can I build an all-in-one mash and boil?

[Grond]

So…I have a keggle and I want to convert it from using a propane burner to an electric heating element.

BUT, I also want to just use the keggle and my grain basket and turn the whole setup into an “all-in-one” mash and boil.

Is this possible?

What can I use to control the heating element?

There is SO much info on here that I have literally spent DAYS searching for some kind of build that I could copy or modify but the more I searched the more confused I got. I have easy access to a 220v 50amp circuit, so a power source isn’t an issue…

PLEASE HELP!!

 

[DuncB]

Agreed a lot of info on the site, someone who has built one will chip in with advice. I would say as an all in one user of an off the shelf Guten, do look at the costs of the parts and usability of your plan. Might be cheaper and easier to go for a buy and then use your propane kettle to heat sparge water or as boiler if you are doing a two brew day. You'll still need some way of heating sparge water unless you go no sparge with an all in one.

 

[doug293cz]

Agreed a lot of info on the site, someone who has built one will chip in with advice. I would say as an all in one user of an off the shelf Guten, do look at the costs of the parts and usability of your plan. Might be cheaper and easier to go for a buy and then use your propane kettle to heat sparge water or as boiler if you are doing a two brew day. You'll still need some way of heating sparge water unless you go no sparge with an all in one.

You don't have to sparge with hot water. Sparging with hot water will reduce the time required to heat the wort to boil.

And, you don't have to sparge at all (known as full volume mashing.) Sparging will improve your lauter efficiency vs. not sparging.

Brew on

 

[doug293cz]

So…I have a keggle and I want to convert it from using a propane burner to an electric heating element.

BUT, I also want to just use the keggle and my grain basket and turn the whole setup into an “all-in-one” mash and boil.

Is this possible?

What can I use to control the heating element?

There is SO much info on here that I have literally spent DAYS searching for some kind of build that I could copy or modify but the more I searched the more confused I got. I have easy access to a 220v 50amp circuit, so a power source isn’t an issue…

PLEASE HELP!!

Do you want temperature control during the mash, or just want to be able to adjust the power to the heating element (similar to adjusting the flame with propane)?

Are you comfortable DIYing a custom control box from a schematic design, or would you rather have an off-the-shelf solution?

Brew on

 

[DuncB]

@doug293cz we agree

 

[RufusBrewer]

All In One systems are a variation Brew In A Bag. All In One systems replace the bag with a stainless steel basket of some sort. The heating element arrangement is mechanically a bit different.

Start with thinking and research going BIAB and adjust as is your preference and budget allows.

Decide how much you want to build DIY and how much you want to use ready made off the shelf solutions.

 

[Grond]

Do you want temperature control during the mash, or just want to be able to adjust the power to the heating element (similar to adjusting the flame with propane)?

Are you comfortable DIYing a custom control box from a schematic design, or would you rather have an off-the-shelf solution?

Brew on

I would want to control the temp during the mash and then have the ability to “crank it up” and boil. Totally comfortable DIYing a custom control…

 

[Grond]

All In One systems are a variation Brew In A Bag. All In One systems replace the bag with a stainless steel basket of some sort. The heating element arrangement is mechanically a bit different.

Start with thinking and research going BIAB and adjust as is your preference and budget allows.

Decide how much you want to build DIY and how much you want to use ready made off the shelf solutions.

I have done BIAB and had a stainless basket made to fit my keggle. I want to eliminate the other 2 kettles and simplify my system. I also want to be able to brew during the winter and when the weather is crappy.

 

[RufusBrewer]

I have done BIAB and had a stainless basket made to fit my keggle. I want to eliminate the other 2 kettles and simplify my system. I also want to be able to brew during the winter and when the weather is crappy.

You have a kettle and a basket and a good source of power.

#1 Make sure your power is GFCI protected. GFCI = Ground Fault Circuit Interrupt. This IS safety and is not an option.

#2 Select a heating element(s). Your keggle will require modification of some sort for a new heating element inside the keggle. How big are your batches. I do 5 gallon batches and use a 5,400 watt element.

Go to brewhardware.com Check out the videos.

I recommend using 1.5" Tri-clamp fittings.

#3 Choose your controller. Off the shelf? Blichmann Brewcommander is a popular choice, so is the Auber Cube 3E. Several others makes and models to choose from.

If you do not mind, cutting and drilling and assembly and wiring, many many control panel designs and kits can go and make custom to satisfy our preferences.

 

[doug293cz]

Here's my preferred design for a DIY single vessel control panel.

You can also use a DSPR120, and the DSPR320 is required if you want to do pre-programmed step mashing. Other PIDs could be substituted for the EZBoil, but I highly recommend staying with the EZBoil. You can substitute DIN rail contactors for the specified contactors if you prefer DIN rail mounting.

Brew on

 

[Grond]

I want to convert my keggle to electric and I need to know what I need...here's how I want to set it up:

I want to install a 5000w 220v heating element in the keggle...but I just want to be able to vary the voltage going to it to control the elements heat output. I will manually watch the temp and adjust accordingly to maintain mash temp. I also want to be able to crank up the voltage for boiling. I have a 220v outlet available.

I want to keep this as simple and inexpensive as possible...but I also want it to work the way I want it to. I have other plans for the keggle as far a recirculation and whirlpooling...but I think I have all that worked out. I have a stainless steel mesh basket that I am going to be using for mashing in...I just want to be able to control the electric element.

Is this possible? What am I missing?

 

[RufusBrewer]

#1 Make sure your 240 VAC us GFCI protected. GFCI = Ground Fault Circuit Interrupt.

#2 You have to modify your keggle. Decide how you are going to mount the new element on your keggle. I favor the 1.5 tri-clamp style. Do your research. Brewhardware.con is can excellent place to start.

#3 The only voltage controller that is off the shelf and ready to go, that I know of, is the blichmann power controller. About $150.00.

if you are not afraid to DIY a solution, you can get away with a [EDIT] SSVR (Solid State Voltage Regulator) + heatsink [/EDIT] About $50, plus a project box, wiring and connectors.

See auberinstruments.com

 

[doug293cz]

If you don't mind DIY, you could go with the StillDragon SSVR power controller. It does just what you ask for, and no more. Personally, I wouldn't use one, as it doesn't have any of the failsafe features that I believe should be included. I think you will quickly tire of manually trying to maintain a stable mash temperature, and you won't be able to hold temp as well as an automatic controller.

Probably the most cost effective pre-built automatic controller is the Blichmann BrewCommander. Although it is also missing the failsafe features that I recommend.

 

[RufusBrewer]

You already have this thread asking the same questions with basically forge same answers.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/can-i-build-an-all-in-one-mash-and-boil.695056/#post-9159232

 

[Grond]

You already have this thread asking the same questions with basically forge same answers.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/can-i-build-an-all-in-one-mash-and-boil.695056/#post-9159232

Sorry for the duplicate post…

 

[user 298779]

If you don't mind DIY, you could go with the StillDragon SSVR power controller. It does just what you ask for, and no more. Personally, I wouldn't use one, as it doesn't have any of the failsafe features that I believe should be included. I think you will quickly tire of manually trying to maintain a stable mash temperature, and you won't be able to hold temp as well as an automatic controller.

Probably the most cost effective pre-built automatic controller is the Blichmann BrewCommander. Although it is also missing the failsafe features that I recommend.

The Brewcommander is excellent (I own one). It seems like you don’t need all the features though, so a good recommendation would also be the Blichmann Power Controller for $165 (vs. $400 for commander). They’re out of stock until October though

 

[Grond]

What do you all think about this as upgrades:

Controller – 240V BIAB Controller



Buy Controllers Direct from Us | Brew-Control



BLICHMANN BOILCOIL 20 GALLON 240V



Blichmann BoilCoil 20 gallon 240V



False Bottom



Stainless Steel False Bottom for Brew In a Bag (BIAB) - 14.75'' Diameter



Sparge Arm



Mash Recirculation Return For Anvil Foundry System - Your choice of input fitting

I already have a pump...so I don't need one of those. I plan on using the sparge arm to whirlpool as well.

 

[GoeHaarden]

it is also missing the failsafe features that I recommend.

Rebuilding my controller, and I'm curious what failsafes you recommend?

Using a breaker for main power, contactors to disable ssr(s), fuses for lower power 120v accessories, and gfci.

 

[doug293cz]

What do you all think about this as upgrades:

Controller – 240V BIAB Controller

Buy Controllers Direct from Us | Brew-Control

BLICHMANN BOILCOIL 20 GALLON 240V

Blichmann BoilCoil 20 gallon 240V

There is a notorious (for bad service and customer support) supplier of electric brew controls that is mentioned on HBT. This looks like it might be him. He used to sell mostly thru Amazon. I would do more homework before committing to this supplier.

The Blichmann BoilCoils are nice elements, but they are a proprietary design, and use a proprietary connector. If you need spares or replacements, you have no choice but to go with Blichmann.

Brew on

 

[doug293cz]

Rebuilding my controller, and I'm curious what failsafes you recommend?

Using a breaker for main power, contactors to disable ssr(s), fuses for lower power 120v accessories, and gfci.

That's most of them. The biggest one that most lower cost pre-built controllers (like the BrewCommander), and some kits (like Still Dragon), don't have is the contactors that can disconnect a failed SSR, without having to shut down the whole system.

The only other missing feature is the "safe start" interlock that prevents main power from being turned on if any of the pump or element switches is turned on. Prevents things from starting unexpectedly if the shutdown sequence wasn't followed properly.

Brew on

 

[user 298779]

What do you all think about this as upgrades:

Controller – 240V BIAB Controller



Buy Controllers Direct from Us | Brew-Control



BLICHMANN BOILCOIL 20 GALLON 240V



Blichmann BoilCoil 20 gallon 240V



False Bottom



Stainless Steel False Bottom for Brew In a Bag (BIAB) - 14.75'' Diameter



Sparge Arm



Mash Recirculation Return For Anvil Foundry System - Your choice of input fitting

I already have a pump...so I don't need one of those. I plan on using the sparge arm to whirlpool as well.

I like Blichmann products overall, but as Doug293CZ noted they’re proprietary. I believe the general consensus among those who’ve already done this would be to us a TC fitting on kettle/keg (ideally welded fitting) and a single piece TC element.

If you need or want to change elements they’re common to find. It also helps if you can easily remove element for cleaning. An added bonus with the TC is you can always cap it if you need to for another application with kettle.

Cheers

KBW.

 

[Grond]

There is a notorious (for bad service and customer support) supplier of electric brew controls that is mentioned on HBT. This looks like it might be him. He used to sell mostly thru Amazon. I would do more homework before committing to this supplier.

The Blichmann BoilCoils are nice elements, but they are a proprietary design, and use a proprietary connector. If you need spares or replacements, you have no choice but to go with Blichmann.

Brew on

I have modified my list a little...let me know what you think:

Element assembly :
https://www.brewhardware.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ElementKit_TCRIP_WL&CartID=6
False Bottom
https://www.brewhardware.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=BIABbottom1475&CartID=2
Mash Recirc
https://www.brewhardware.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=MashRecirculationAnvil&CartID=1
Controller - Cube 3S DIY kit
https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=64_66&products_id=837
FYI...the reason that I want to convert my keggle is because I keg in 1/4 Slims...and I don't think that 7 gallon batches are "doable" in the electric brewers.

 

[RufusBrewer]

I have the 5500 watt ripple from BrewHardware. You will be happy with that.

The false bottom is a brilliant product. I did not to worry about my BIAB bag getting tangled up with the heating element. A wise investment (and a steal) at $37.00.

You will also be glad that you bit the bullet and went with a temp controlled power regulator like the Cube 3S.

I recommend that you insulate your keggle. I used a double layer of Reflectix. I found 10 ft x 24 inch for $10.64. Figure out how to hold it in place (I used Velcro straps) and you are gold.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-24-in-x-10-ft-Double-Reflective-Insulation-24x10DRI/314983628

 

[Grond]

I have the 5500 watt ripple from BrewHardware. You will be happy with that.

The false bottom is a brilliant product. I did not to worry about my BIAB bag getting tangled up with the heating element. A wise investment (and a steal) at $37.00.

You will also be glad that you bit the bullet and went with a temp controlled power regulator like the Cube 3S.

I recommend that you insulate your keggle. I used a double layer of Reflectix. I found 10 ft x 24 inch for $10.64. Figure out how to hold it in place (I used Velcro straps) and you are gold.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-24-in-x-10-ft-Double-Reflective-Insulation-24x10DRI/314983628

Oh…it’s insulated.

 

[Grond]

I have the 5500 watt ripple from BrewHardware. You will be happy with that.

The false bottom is a brilliant product. I did not to worry about my BIAB bag getting tangled up with the heating element. A wise investment (and a steal) at $37.00.

You will also be glad that you bit the bullet and went with a temp controlled power regulator like the Cube 3S.

I recommend that you insulate your keggle. I used a double layer of Reflectix. I found 10 ft x 24 inch for $10.64. Figure out how to hold it in place (I used Velcro straps) and you are gold.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-24-in-x-10-ft-Double-Reflective-Insulation-24x10DRI/314983628

3M actually makes a high-temp metallic tape…rated to 400 degrees. I’ve had it on for 2 boils using my propane burner. No issues.

 

[doug293cz]

I have modified my list a little...let me know what you think:

Element assembly :
https://www.brewhardware.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ElementKit_TCRIP_WL&CartID=6
False Bottom
https://www.brewhardware.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=BIABbottom1475&CartID=2
Mash Recirc
https://www.brewhardware.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=MashRecirculationAnvil&CartID=1
Controller - Cube 3S DIY kit
https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=64_66&products_id=837
FYI...the reason that I want to convert my keggle is because I keg in 1/4 Slims...and I don't think that 7 gallon batches are "doable" in the electric brewers.

The ripple element with integral L6-30 plug is my recommendation, so yes to that.

I think the Cube from Auber is one of the best designed off the self single element controllers available.

And you pretty much can't go wrong with other components from BrewHardware.com

Brew on

 

[user 298779]

I had a similar setup to Grond and really liked it. Just didn’t want to deal with keggle anymore due to size and weight.

I fully agree with the comments on the 5500W TC element from Brew Hardware. I have one and couldn’t be more happy with it. Liked it so much I bought another one from them in 3500W TC. Mine are all attached to welded fittings but the elements are same as yours.

The refletix is another good choice from my experience

Cheers

KBW.

 

[user 298779]

3M actually makes a high-temp metallic tape…rated to 400 degrees. I’ve had it on for 2 boils using my propane burner. No issues.

It looks funky but man does it work!

 

[Deric]

How big is the opening in your keggle? Are you sure the false bottom will fit?

 

[Grond]

How big is the opening in your keggle? Are you sure the false bottom will fit?

Yes…I’m certain. I cut the top of the keg out myself and it’s about 1/4” from the outside edge of the keg itself. I actually found a lid that fits perfectly on the outside edge of the keg “top”. I’ll take a picture of it in the morning to add to this post.

 

[RufusBrewer]

3M actually makes a high-temp metallic tape…rated to 400 degrees. I’ve had it on for 2 boils using my propane burner. No issues.

OK the tape is rated for 400, what about the insulating material? What is it and what is it's max temp spec. The stuff I used is Rated at 160 deg. So I remove before cracking up to boil temps.