Can 1ml of lactic acid in 12L mash be noticable in the final beer?

[tomaso]

I'm somehow suspecting that the taste that obscures my malty brews is coming from lactic acid but for the batch in question I only added 0,8ml of lactic acid for 3kg of grain in a 12L mash for a final 15L batch.
It seems like this shouldn't be possibly noticable in the final beer or is that possible?

I poured a bit of lactic acid into a glass of lager and the resultant taste does seem a bit like what I'm getting from my oktoberfast ale.

 

[Gavin C]

No. Doesn't look like it is above the taste threshold at that level.

Braukaiser looked at this question.

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Lactate_Taste_Threshold_experiment

 

[ArcLight]

I'm somehow suspecting that the taste that obscures my malty brews is coming from lactic acid but for the batch in question I only added 0,8ml of lactic acid for 3kg of grain in a 12L mash for a final 15L batch.
It seems like this shouldn't be possibly noticable in the final beer or is that possible?

I poured a bit of lactic acid into a glass of lager and the resultant taste does seem a bit like what I'm getting from my oktoberfast ale.

That's significantly below the Lactic acid taste threshold (unless you are a microbe).
Is it possible your beer is infected, say from Lactobacilus?
That's probably the more likely explanation.

 

[tomaso]

Hm, yes.... thanks for the replies... thought so.
Maybe it's really that I just don't like S-04 like quite a few other people out there....

 

[solbes]

Mmm S-04, not for me. I wouldn't rule it out at all.

 

[zwiller]

I hate lactic acid and will say I think I would be able to detect it. I think I am just sensitive to the stuff. There are a few of us out there but we are far in minority. I am BJCP but do not consider myself an elitist taster. For more data, I had neighbors and family taste beers (no disclosure) made with 1.5ml to 5G (19l) and all picked up on it. Kinda sorta metallic/rusty/twangy. First time with lactic acid I made a beer with 4ml and I had to dump it. I have since abandoned using it and use distilled water (for light stuff, hefe/lagers) and have been much happier. I regularly use phosphoric acid with ales and have great results so my suggestion would be to try that and see if that helps. Not ruling out anything suggested, like yeast or infection, good things to consider.

 

[dfhar]

Maybe your bottle of lactic acid is contaminated or something? Can you drink German beer and not notice the rusty flavor? Just about every single German brewery is using mash and boil acidification with lactic acid in the form of acid malt or soured wort.

 

[Rev2010]

I've used 4ml in the mash and .5ml in my sparge water many times and never noticed a difference in taste. I personally avoid going 5ml and over total, just because I don't want to taste to eventually come through, though I don't exactly know how much I'd have to use, but I seriously doubt anyone can taste 1ml in a 4 or 5 gallon batch.


Rev.

 

[zwiller]

Maybe your bottle of lactic acid is contaminated or something? Can you drink German beer and not notice the rusty flavor? Just about every single German brewery is using mash and boil acidification with lactic acid in the form of acid malt or soured wort.

Touche'. I've actually considered it was off or contaminated. While I do taste a twang in german stuff, it's actually tasty and compliments the beer well. As you pointed out, german brewers are not using 88% lactic acid (produced synthetically) they use a natural lacto malt ferment, and both taste different. I confided about this with a brewer I trust and he asked me whether would rather put white vinegar or malt vinegar on my french fries? Maybe not the best analogy for all but it was fate that I always use vinegar on my fries! I've confirmed Weyermann acid malt is malt sprayed with sauergut btw... I've also chewed on the stuff and the metallic note is absent.

One thing to take into consideration, I've only used lactic acid in delicate styles where anything off sticks out pretty obvious. Maybe you could get away with it in IPA's etc. I don't know, I've always used phosphoric for my ales.

 

[trentm]

I'm somehow suspecting that the taste that obscures my malty brews is coming from lactic acid but for the batch in question I only added 0,8ml of lactic acid for 3kg of grain in a 12L mash for a final 15L batch.
It seems like this shouldn't be possibly noticable in the final beer or is that possible?

I poured a bit of lactic acid into a glass of lager and the resultant taste does seem a bit like what I'm getting from my oktoberfast ale.

Perhaps the level of lactic acid perception in beer is influenced by yeast strain. It is known that S. cerevisiae esterifies lactic acid into Ethyl lactate and the level of production is strain dependant: http://www.researchgate.net/profile...grape_must/links/00b495367b2b0422b2000000.pdf
It is also know that Brettanomyces sp. are more efficient in the esterification of lactic acid and higher levels of ethyl acetate have been observed in Brett fermentations that have been supplemented with lactic acid: http://www.brettanomycesproject.com...pact-of-initial-concentration-of-lactic-acid/
Both ethyl lactate and ethyl acetate can be perceived as fruity, adding a new dimension to certain styles of beer. So my guess is: those yeasts that produce a clean profile may not efficiently esterify lactic acid and therefore allowing the metallic/rusty/twangy flavor to come through in the beer. While beers using yeast strains known to produce esters may actually benefit from the use of lactic acid.