California Lager Yeast = Fail

[lolcats]

Hello,

After about 10 batches of IPA, DIPA and APA, I decided to give it a go with Wyeast 2112.

Almost 2 days in and no activity.

I think I screwed 2 things up:

-I did 3 gallons divided into 1 gallon carboys. I divided the smack pack into 3 carboys. After using a pitching calculator, realized that was very low especially without a starter.

-I pitched at about 80F then cooled it down to 60F.


I brought temps back up but still nothing. Is this a case of RDWHAHB?

Can I pitch an ale yeast over the Wyeast 2112 if nothing happens?


Gravity is 1.060 with Summit Centennial and Ahtanum hops

 

[jdauria]

So lager yeast but fermented at ale temps...first off pitching at 80F was way to high for that yeast. You would have been better off pitching at 60. And you definitely did not have enough yeast as a hybrid (lager yeast that can ferment at ale temps) beer need a lot more. Per Mr. Malty you need 0.6 smack packs for each 1 gallon carboy if the yeast was packaged today.

Yes you can pitch ale yeast over it, but before you do...take a gravity reading. Lager yeast does not give you a high krausen as much since they are bottom fermenting yeast. It may be working, but with the low amount pitched, at a very slow rate. If gravity has gone down, give it two weeks and if it does not finish out, then pitch more yeast.

 

[kh54s10]

Lager yeasts are much slower than ale yeasts. I would give it another day or two before panicking. Especially since you underpitched.

 

[Bowtiebrewery]

^^^ Ditto to the above statements. Wait a week. Unless you are in a crunch for space, why risk tossing beer that could be just fine?

 

[stpug]

As long as you were very diligent about sanitizing your vessels, etc; you'll be fine. Keep them airlocked and at 60-63F and they'll get going soon. I would not expect much (if any) ill effects from the minimal pitch rate or long lag - assuming things were well sanitized and you keep them airlocked (no peeking).

 

[okiedog]

+1 for waiting a week. Did you add yeast nutrient? If not, you could still add it.

I have a lager fermenting now that took a week to start because I pitched yeast slurry that was 1 year old. If I had noticed it was that old before pitching, I definitely would have made a big starter. Pitched at 49F, no activity after 5 days. Warmed to 52F for 2 days, and the airlock started bubbling. Now 3 days later, it is active and happy at 50F.

 

[lolcats]

Thanks for your feedback all, I'm such a noob... I don't have any more of that yeast i would add more if i could. Don't have any nutrient either.

Other question: why does 3 gallon in a 3 gallon fermenter require less yeast than 3 gallons divided into 3 1 gallon fermenters?

 

[okiedog]

It probably has to do with head space, and how full you are filling them. When empty, you could fill empty fermenters with water accurately measured to 1 or 3 gallons and mark them on the outside. A one quart Pyrex pitcher with volume markers on it works fine.

 

[stpug]

why does 3 gallon in a 3 gallon fermenter require less yeast than 3 gallons divided into 3 1 gallon fermenters?

It doesn't. I don't know if someone said that but it doesn't.

For an 3 gallon ale at 1.060 you would ideally be looking at 125 billion cells. For a hybrid ale/lager you may increase that by 25% or so (160 billion cells). You pitched ~100 billion cells. I suspect this is why the long lag time.

 

[lolcats]

Will it ever take off / attenuate correctly or will it just take longer?

I'm tempted just to pitch and ale yeast now since there's still nothing.. I have some S04 and 05 ready to go

 

[stpug]

Give it until tomorrow afternoon; if still nothing then use the 05; and keep it closed/bunged.

 

[jdauria]

Other question: why does 3 gallon in a 3 gallon fermenter require less yeast than 3 gallons divided into 3 1 gallon fermenters?

It doesn't. Again using Mr. Malty and selecting hybrid (not lager since the yeast you used is a hybrid yeast)...3 gallon batch with no starter needed 1.7 packs of yeast or 167 billion cells. 1 gallon batches need .6 of a pack (think I said .9 the other day) or 56 billion cells each. So three .6 packs at 56 billion each coems to 1.8 packs at 168 billion cells...so pretty much equal to a 3 gallon batch.

 

[okiedog]

Don't be so impatient! 1. You underpitched, so it takes longer to build up sufficient cell count, 2. You pitched at 80F, then cooled it down to 60F, a 20 degree drop, 3. The OG is 1.060, which takes a little longer, especially when underpitched. Though you'd like to see fermentation within 12 to 24 hours, 2 days to is nothing to worry about. Since you know you underpitched, you should expect it to take longer.

2 questions: 1. What was the temp of the yeast when you pitched it into 80F wort? 2. How old was the yeast-what was the date on the yeast container?

 

[lolcats]

Don't be so impatient! 1. You underpitched, so it takes longer to build up sufficient cell count, 2. You pitched at 80F, then cooled it down to 60F, a 20 degree drop, 3. The OG is 1.060, which takes a little longer, especially when underpitched. Though you'd like to see fermentation within 12 to 24 hours, 2 days to is nothing to worry about. Since you know you underpitched, you should expect it to take longer.

2 questions: 1. What was the temp of the yeast when you pitched it into 80F wort? 2. How old was the yeast-what was the date on the yeast container?

It's been 4 days now still nothing.

The yeast was at room temp when i pitched. Don't know about the date, but I bought the yeast about 1 month ago so pretty recent package. :beard:

I know i'm impatient but I've been used to S04 which takes off almost immediately

I'm going to pitch the ale yeast tonight.. With almost 40% less cell count than needed I don't think it will ever attenuate properly

 

[estricklin]

Take a gravity reading and see what's going on.

Otherwise, just give it some time, it will be beer.

 

[okiedog]

The difference between wort and yeast temp should be less than 10 degrees F, to prevent stressing your yeast. I have gotten yeast that was 5 months old, and pitched without a starter. It was slow to take off, but eventually it did. Now I ALWAYS look at or ask for the date before I buy it. Also, yeast nutrient is extra insurance that your yeast can have a healthy start, even if you brew AG. California lager is a good yeast. I like it, and have had good results with it. You can brew anything from a Lager to hybrid (Cal Common), to an ale, depending on what temp you ferment at.