Calculate salt additions to kettle instead of mash (in Bru'n Water)

[Deus Ex Mashina]

Hi,
Usually I add salt and acid to mash and sparge water, however I am thinking that a great deal of salt remains trapped in the grains and doesn't contribute much to the final beer characteristic (maybe I am wrong?). My salt additions are aimed at getting enough chloride in the beer to get a rounder, fuller mouthfeel, not to replicate a particular water source.

I am using Bru'n Water to calculate salt/acid additions. However the spreadsheet tells me the quantity of salts to add to mash and sparge water volumes separately. I would like to know if I can just add the same amounts to the kettle or if I should calculate them with a different approach? and if yes, how? Anybody has experience with this?

Please note that I use lactic acid to adjust mash pH (my water source is around 8 so I always add some acid to lower it down). I'd think that the effect of not adding salts to the mash can be compensated by a little bit more or less acid, so I don't see a problem for mash pH if salts are added to the kettle.

Thank ya all!
Guido

 

[Jag75]

I use Bru N Water as well . I follow the directions of the program and have had great results. So I add the amount of gypsum , calcium chloride and lactic acid to my mash water and sparge separately. Water still at room temp , stir till dissolved then I'm ready to roll.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

My understanding is the calcium does drop from mash to boil because of reactions but the other salts come over proportionately. In other words, if you calculated a certain ppm of sulfate or chloride in the mash you'll have that same ppm after transferring to the boil kettle. I add all my salts to the mash and none in the sparge water.

 

[bierhaus15]

I'd like to know where adding salts to the sparge water and not the kettle originated, although I assume it was from breweries not doing sparge acidification or dodgy home brew learning from the 90's. Either way, it has been called "Kettle Salts" for centuries and it is still the best place to add your post-mash salts, should you use them. Calcium is lost upwards of 30% in the mash and in the sparge (boil as well) and adding in the boil actually ensures you are getting appropriate carryover and final Ca ppm into the wort. While most ions are soluble, it is not a perfect 1:1 for Cl and S04. Adding in the boil ensures they are fully dissolved as that doesn't always happen in the sparge water. If you care about Ca wort levels and are acidifying your sparge water, if needed, then adding in the boil is the ideal place to add them.

 

[Jag75]

Hmmm, I've never added salts or acids to a boil . Always mash and sparge water. My mash ph is pretty close if not spot on . I cant find the info about dissolving in room temp water . Never had an issue . I cant tell you all the scientific stuff , but I can tell you that Bru n water hasnt let me down and its improved my beer.

 

[ESBrewer]

Hi,
I would like to know if I can just add the same amounts to the kettle or if I should calculate them with a different approach?

You can use the same approach to calculate the ppm (water adjustment sheet). As bierhaus noted, ions mostly pass through the mash tun and end up in the boil kettle. But you will lose calcium during the brewing process because of the precipitation of calcium salts such as calcium phosphate and -oxalate. Even with kettle additions, some calcium will end up in the trub during the boil. In fact, if you leave calcium out from the mash and add it preboil only you are expected to lose more calcium in the boil phase because the malt compounds that could have precipitated during the mash in the presence of calcium were carried to the boil kettle. Also, keep in mind that you want to have a little bit of calcium in the mash water to stabilize the structure of alpha-amylase.

 

[couchsending]

Hmmm, I've never added salts or acids to a boil . Always mash and sparge water. My mash ph is pretty close if not spot on . I cant find the info about dissolving in room temp water . Never had an issue . I cant tell you all the scientific stuff , but I can tell you that Bru n water hasnt let me down and its improved my beer.

I always add salts and acid to the boil. Like @bierhaus15 said kettle Ca additions ensure that the Ca actually make it into the fermenter. You lose a ton of Ca in the mash.

Do some research on kettle acid additions and pH adjustment during the boil. You’d be amazed at what you find.

 

[maltyboy]

I always add salts and acid to the boil. Like @bierhaus15 said kettle Ca additions ensure that the Ca actually make it into the fermenter. You lose a ton of Ca in the mash.

Do some research on kettle acid additions and pH adjustment during the boil. You’d be amazed at what you find.

Is there any easy way (or perhaps calculator) to help calculate Acid additions in the boil for pH adjustment? I've read some of your posts regarding optimal boil pH for hop utilisation and wanted a method to easily calculate during brewday.

 

[couchsending]

Is there any easy way (or perhaps calculator) to help calculate Acid additions in the boil for pH adjustment? I've read some of your posts regarding optimal boil pH for hop utilisation and wanted a method to easily calculate during brewday.

No calculator that I know of. The amount needed of Lactic or 85% phosphoric to drop X amount in the mash is generally pretty similar to the amount needed to get pH to drop the same amount in the kettle.

There are a few variables at play. Hops will always increase pH. Leaf hops seem to increase pH more as compared to pellets. At least in my experience. I will often run wort through a hopback full of leaf and see a larger increase in pH as compared to the same weight in pellets in say the whirlpool.

 

[maltyboy]

No calculator that I know of. The amount needed of Lactic or 85% phosphoric to drop X amount in the mash is generally pretty similar to the amount needed to get pH to drop the same amount in the kettle.

There are a few variables at play. Hops will always increase pH. Leaf hops seem to increase pH more as compared to pellets. At least in my experience. I will often run wort through a hopback full of leaf and see a larger increase in pH as compared to the same weight in pellets in say the whirlpool.

Cool, I'll just use the acid adjustments in Bru'n and see how I go.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Is there any easy way (or perhaps calculator) to help calculate Acid additions in the boil for pH adjustment?

Mash Made Easy offers this feature. pH adjustments made within the kettle do not necessarily correlate well to pH adjustments made within the mash.

 

[maltyboy]

Mash Made Easy offers this feature. pH adjustments made within the kettle do not necessarily correlate well to pH adjustments made within the mash.

Thanks fella, will check it out.