Burned LME . . . every time

[jambafish]

I recently purchased a 10 gal brew kettle from Northern. Now every time I brew I burn the LME.

First time was my fault since I didn't remove from heat.
Second time I removed from heat but figured it was just still too hot.
Third time I removed from heat, let cool a little, added the malt extract, stirred awhile, turned heat up slowly while stirring, and still burned.

What's a solution?

 

[Draken]

How long are you boiling after adding? Try adding it with only 10 min or so left in the boil

Also try pouring very slowly an stirring a lot. You might be adding to much at once.

 

[kh54s10]

Pour the LME in very slowly while stirring like crazy. You want to try to get it into the solution before it sinks to the bottom.

It will go straight to the bottom if just poured in.

 

[RandomBeerGuy]

Whats your temp during the boil? I used LME and DME with never burning the extract at a 60 min boil. If this helps just remember to get a nice smooth rolling boil not a crazy vigorous boil. I have a nice smooth roll around 212-218F. Maybe also add the extract just before the boil like around 160-170 so it has time to warm up before the boil.

 

[dcott]

Are you using an electric range? If so, the coils could lead to scalding of anything that settles to the bottom if you aren't stirring. Just a thought.

 

[helibrewer]

I do this because I'm paranoid: I heat a couple gallons of water on the stove to about 110F, pour all my DME/LME in and make sure it is completely dissolved...I run my hands across the bottom of the pot to make sure. Then I dump this into my BK...it's extra work but it insures all the extract is dissolved.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

How long are you boiling after adding? Try adding it with only 10 min or so left in the boil

Also try pouring very slowly an stirring a lot. You might be adding to much at once.

Or add it at flameout and let it sit for a few mins before cooling. Won't burn it or make it taste overly like an extract brew.

 

[ArcaneXor]

Whats your temp during the boil?

You can only boil a liquid at precisely one temperature (unless you mess with pressure/vacuum cooking). That temperature changes slightly depending on the sugar content of the solution. Adding heat doesn't change the temperature of the liquid, it just increases the rate of evaporation.

 

[RandomBeerGuy]

You can only boil a liquid at precisely one temperature (unless you mess with pressure/vacuum cooking). That temperature changes slightly depending on the sugar content of the solution. Adding heat doesn't change the temperature of the liquid, it just increases the rate of evaporation.

its to early to think, I really dont understand your statment.

 

[ArcaneXor]

its to early to think

But never too early to drink!

 

[RandomBeerGuy]

But never too early to drink!

Roger that

 

[PilotsPheer]

I did my first partial mash a few weeks ago and did the same thing, although I still had it on the burner which I know now is a mistake. Next time I'm going to turn the LME addition into a 2 man job and remove it from heat for a bit have someone else slowly pour while I stir like a madman. My wort actually had a burnt taste to it, but I was able to strain out all of the burnt LME so I'm going to give it a lot of time and hope that flavor diminished... a lot.

 

[jambafish]

To answer a couple. I use a butane burner, I add at flame out, I stir a lot (but not too much to oxygenate), I generally stir for a while before turning flame back on and then I bring it up slowly.

I think helibrewer has a really good idea to simply do the DME/LME separately. Don't know why this never occurred to me before, but that is going to be my next approach.

Thanks for the comments and suggestions!

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

To answer a couple. I use a butane burner, I add at flame out, I stir a lot (but not too much to oxygenate), I generally stir for a while before turning flame back on and then I bring it up slowly.

You aren't adding it at flameout if you're turning the flame back on. Flameout is the end of the boil. Add the LME at flameout and there's no chance you'll burn it.

 

[ktblunden]

You aren't adding it at flameout if you're turning the flame back on. Flameout is the end of the boil. Add the LME at flameout and there's no chance you'll burn it.

Yep, that's the way to go. You'll also get much closer to the correct color than if you add extract at the beginning of the boil. Malt extract has already been boiled once, it really just needs to be pasteurized by the high heat at the end of a boil to ensure there's no critters hitching a ride.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

Yep, that's the way to go. You'll also get much closer to the correct color than if you add extract at the beginning of the boil. Malt extract has already been boiled once, it really just needs to be pasteurized by the high heat at the end of a boil to ensure there's no critters hitching a ride.

Exactly. Especially with LME, I've had much better results adding it after the boil than when I've added it anytime during the boil. If you add it at flame out, ~210 or so degrees, let it sit covered for ~5-10 mins, it'll be pasteurized and all good.

 

[ZeebraStripe]

If you don't already, I would definitely heat your containers of LME in hot water to thin them out before opening. This will keep it from from torpedoing straight to the bottom and will allow you to stir it in better. The bottom of your stock pot's going to stay pretty hot for a few, even after flameout; keep it off the bottom as best you can.

 

[TimpanogosSlim]

To answer a couple. I use a butane burner, I add at flame out, I stir a lot (but not too much to oxygenate), I generally stir for a while before turning flame back on and then I bring it up slowly.

I think helibrewer has a really good idea to simply do the DME/LME separately. Don't know why this never occurred to me before, but that is going to be my next approach.

Thanks for the comments and suggestions!

Why are you shy about oxygenating your wort? You WANT oxygen in there, pre-fermentation.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

I have a nice smooth roll around 212-218F

218F???? Okay, so either your thermometer isn't calibrated properly or you're brewing at 3000 feet BELOW sea-level. Otherwise 218 is impossible.

You can only boil a liquid at precisely one temperature (unless you mess with pressure/vacuum cooking).

Not exactly. There is a detailed and accurate equation for figuring out boil temp but the rough rule of thumb is for every 500 feet above sea-level, the boiling-point of water drops by 1*F. For instance, my wort boils at roughly 202.5*F

 

[ArcaneXor]

Not exactly. There is a detailed and accurate equation for figuring out boil temp but the rough rule of thumb is for every 500 feet above sea-level, the boiling-point of water drops by 1*F. For instance, my wort boils at roughly 202.5*F

True, of course, but largely academic, since a brewer won't usually change his altitude during the same boil. For completeness, wort is also not water and boils at slightly higher temperatures than pure water would. With very high evaporation, the boiling temperature will, in fact, increase slightly during the boil.

 

[Draken]

Why are you shy about oxygenating your wort? You WANT oxygen in there, pre-fermentation.

You want oxygen yes, but above a certain temp you want to minimize oxygen. It's called hot side aeration. While many will argue its a myth, i have read of at least two tests that have convinced me otherwise.

 

[TimpanogosSlim]

You want oxygen yes, but above a certain temp you want to minimize oxygen. It's called hot side aeration. While many will argue its a myth, i have read of at least two tests that have convinced me otherwise.

Never heard of it. What is it supposed to do?

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

You want oxygen yes, but above a certain temp you want to minimize oxygen. It's called hot side aeration. While many will argue its a myth, i have read of at least two tests that have convinced me otherwise.

Not trying to argue, but my experience and things I've seen tell me that it is somewhat of a myth. There's videos on the intertron of commercial breweries splashing and stirring hot wort, not seeming to be worried about HSA. I've splashed and likely aerated hot wort during sparge and transfer, no issue. No harm in trying to limit HSA, but I don't think it's the concern some make it out to be.

 

[Draken]

Never heard of it. What is it supposed to do?

It's essentially puts a time bomb in your beer. The more oxygen you introduce on the hot side the shorter the fuse (again from what i have read). The tests i read were both brewers who ferment under CO2 in a keg. Basically once the yeast is introduced their beer never sees oxygen till its poured. Yet after these tests the beer started going bad around the 3 month mark. They would just start tasting a bit stale and within a month or so develop the classic wet cardboard flavor. Compared to a test batch that lasted 6 months before the keg went dry... It's enough of a test I just try to minimize splashing and sloshing while the beer is hot, but I don't panic over it because honestly how many our beers last that long...

 

[jonnyp1980]

I use a big azz plastic spatula. it covers the bottom when I pour its off the burner and I scrape back and forth. Works every time. No burn.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

It's essentially puts a time bomb in your beer. The more oxygen you introduce on the hot side the shorter the fuse (again from what i have read). The tests i read were both brewers who ferment under CO2 in a keg. Basically once the yeast is introduced their beer never sees oxygen till its poured. Yet after these tests the beer started going bad around the 3 month mark. They would just start tasting a bit stale and within a month or so develop the classic wet cardboard flavor. Compared to a test batch that lasted 6 months before the keg went dry... It's enough of a test I just try to minimize splashing and sloshing while the beer is hot, but I don't panic over it because honestly how many our beers last that long...

You're talking about it happening in a pressurized fermentation. Of course, because if there's any o2 that the yeast don't use, it's trapped. Most of us use an airlock to let gasses escape, so if (big if) the yeast don't use up all the oxygen (which they will), it will be driven off during fermentation. Again, not trying to be argumentative, but I'm speaking form personal experience, not what I've read or seen about a specific example.

 

[RandomBeerGuy]

218F???? Okay, so either your thermometer isn't calibrated properly or you're brewing at 3000 feet BELOW sea-level. Otherwise 218 is impossible.

I have been using the same thermometer for mashing temps, sparge temps, boil temps. All of my brews have been good. At 218 on the therm I get a nice smooth rolling boil. So I dont see how 218 is impossible? I dunno either way I hit my numbers, volumes, and temps needed to brew im happy

 

[TimpanogosSlim]

It's essentially puts a time bomb in your beer. The more oxygen you introduce on the hot side the shorter the fuse (again from what i have read). The tests i read were both brewers who ferment under CO2 in a keg. Basically once the yeast is introduced their beer never sees oxygen till its poured. Yet after these tests the beer started going bad around the 3 month mark. They would just start tasting a bit stale and within a month or so develop the classic wet cardboard flavor. Compared to a test batch that lasted 6 months before the keg went dry... It's enough of a test I just try to minimize splashing and sloshing while the beer is hot, but I don't panic over it because honestly how many our beers last that long...

That sounds like nonsense to me.

There's a limit to how much free o2 can go into solution. This limit is lower the higher the temperature.

If you'd told me that something in the wort gets oxidized because of exposure to atmosphere while hot, sure, maybe.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

There's a limit to how much free o2 can go into solution. This limit is lower the higher the temperature.

Exactly! I can see how, in theory, this could pose a problem if the ferment is under pressure, but even then in's contradictory to so many other things at best. I really, really, don't think this is an issue for the majority of home brewers out there.

 

[Draken]

That sounds like nonsense to me.

There's a limit to how much free o2 can go into solution. This limit is lower the higher the temperature.

If you'd told me that something in the wort gets oxidized because of exposure to atmosphere while hot, sure, maybe.

That's what I meant. Not oxygenate, oxidize.. My bad

I just don't want to get I the habit of splashing boiling hot liquid around anyway so .