burn on inside of stainless steel brewing kettle

[Catt22]

Sorry for the hijack (and I totally grabbed this off of another forum):

As lye is very dangerous, consider your own sodium carbonate (washing soda) which, while not as basic as lye, it is more basic than baking soda.
You can make your own washing soda by baking "baking soda"
The NY Times had a good article on doing this.
"The Curious Cook
For Old-Fashioned Flavor, Bake the Baking Soda"
by Harold McGee

"Just spread a layer of soda on a foil-covered baking sheet and bake it at 250 to 300 degrees for an hour. You’ll lose about a third of the soda’s weight in water and carbon dioxide, but you gain a stronger alkali. Keep baked soda in a tightly sealed jar to prevent it from absorbing moisture from the air. And avoid touching or spilling it. It’s not lye, but it’s strong enough to irritate.

Baked soda is also strong enough to make a good lye substitute for pretzels. In order to get that distinctive flavor and deep brown color, pretzel makers briefly dunk the shaped pieces of raw dough in a lye solution before baking them. Many home recipes replace the lye with baking soda, but the results taste like breadsticks, not pretzels."

The entire article is worth reading for some good kitchen chemistry.

Hey Keith,

Thanks for the info! I was aware of the baking soda substitution, but had never heard of the baked baking soda before. I had a supply of the Red Devil lye that I had always used for the pretzels, but I recently ran out. I plan to try this baked soda technique soon. My soft German style pretzels are always a big hit wherever I take them. The distinctive pretzel flavor is essential. Otherwise, they are nothing more than an oddly shaped bagel.

This tip will go into my recipe archive immediately.

 

[EarthBound]

Glad you got your kettle clean Earthbound.

Thanks. Glad to have it done.

I suppose now I should wipe it with wet paper towels until they come clean, repassivate it with BKF, give it an oxiclean enema, and she'll be ready for some action?

 

[northernlad]

Well, I aint no scientist and I aint got no degree in rocks and dirt and stuff, but I have been using SS scrubbies indiscriminately on Stainless pots and equipment in restaurants for over 20 years and I have never seen any SS rust or stick or anything as a result. I fact, I have never seen stainless even be scratched by typical cleaning with a scrubbie. Try saying that with a brillo pad. The quality of the stainless in the pot is far better that what you will find in a scrubbie and like pencil to paper the pot will prevail. By the time you get done with scrubbing a serious scratch off of a pan you have just barely touched the actual stainless.

I find it disturbing that almost everyone is sayin "Aww, Feck it, throw a closet of chemicals on it" but no one wants scrub a little.

 

[dmfa200]

Well, I aint no scientist and I aint got no degree in rocks and dirt and stuff, but I have been using SS scrubbies indiscriminately on Stainless pots and equipment in restaurants for over 20 years and I have never seen any SS rust or stick or anything as a result. I fact, I have never seen stainless even be scratched by typical cleaning with a scrubbie. Try saying that with a brillo pad. The quality of the stainless in the pot is far better that what you will find in a scrubbie and like pencil to paper the pot will prevail. By the time you get done with scrubbing a serious scratch off of a pan you have just barely touched the actual stainless.

I find it disturbing that almost everyone is sayin "Aww, Feck it, throw a closet of chemicals on it" but no one wants scrub a little.

Thank you!

 

[smelltheglove]

didnt wanna hijack...but this is kinda related to burning and oxy-clean w SS!

....I did about a 32 hour soak in oxy-clean to try and loosen up some scorching on the bottom...it got rid of them pretty well after I scrubbed with the blue scrubbie. But now it left this grayish matte looking residue on the pot. Has anyone seen this before? I kinda looks like my aluminum pot's grayish oxidation layer... didn't know SS does this? This is a SS Pot from morebeer...the economy one so it is probably a cheaper type SS? Any input would be appreciated...Thanks

 

[wired247]

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000T9LZDI/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[EarthBound]

Well, I aint no scientist and I aint got no degree in rocks and dirt and stuff, but I have been using SS scrubbies indiscriminately on Stainless pots and equipment in restaurants for over 20 years and I have never seen any SS rust or stick or anything as a result. I fact, I have never seen stainless even be scratched by typical cleaning with a scrubbie. Try saying that with a brillo pad. The quality of the stainless in the pot is far better that what you will find in a scrubbie and like pencil to paper the pot will prevail. By the time you get done with scrubbing a serious scratch off of a pan you have just barely touched the actual stainless.

I find it disturbing that almost everyone is sayin "Aww, Feck it, throw a closet of chemicals on it" but no one wants scrub a little.

I hope that wasn't directed at me.

I was simply taking suggestions for cleaning burnt stuff off the bottom of a SS kettle. After that, I decided what were valid suggestions and decided to try them out. I know I could've just used a SS scrubbie right off the bat, but I thought it would be helpful to try out some ideas. I'm usually willing to be a guinea pig, especially when it's a controversial topic.

In my case, scrubbing a little by hand would've pretty much done nothing. A SS wire brush for my angle grinder would've been required. I even bought one just in case the oven cleaner didn't work, but it did, so we're good.

 

[RegionalChaos]

Tend to agree with this. Either extremely high concentrations of OxiClean were used or the reports are based on confusing aluminum with SS. I have never had an issue with pitting on any SS vessel and I have also left for a couple days. This also includes a SS slop sink that has held a tub of oxiclean for a week on a couple of occasions.

My understanding is that you can get pitting if the Oxi hasn't dissolved completely. So too high of a concentration, or very little stirring..

 

[kmk1012]

I always pour in 1/4 to 1/2 gallon of gasoline, light it and set it out in the yard over night. Believe me after it is done burning the little scorch in the bottom is the last thing to worry about! P.S. a little elbow grease and some pbw works everytime!

 

[Photomask]

There has been no end of concern about scratching the surface and leaving something to promote growth. 1000 different opinions, 1000 different quotes, 1000 different solutions. Limitless headbutting and personality conflicts but nobody has taken the time to prove it. I think that's what we really need. This is the first step in a series of test I'm going to run that should put all of this to an end. The next will be a process specific corrosion test on various passivation methods versus surface conditions. For the time being, let's start with the whole scratching the surface issue.

I'm not intending to step on anybody's toes or compare size of genitalia. I am interested in useful testing with comparative results in a real world environment that is specific to a homebrewer's perspective.

I started with a top of an AB beer keg and attacked it with various abrasive surface treatments.

Photo #1 The Keg Top
Photo #2 A used 40gt flapwheel in a 4-1/2in grinder
Photo #3 Used 100gt sandpaper in a random orbit sander
Photo #4 The standard Scotch Green Scrubbie

 

[Photomask]

Photo #5 Scotch S/S Scrubbie
Photo #6 A S/S Toothbrush
Photo #7 Polished on a bench buffer.

Surface analysis showed:
The untreated surface of the keg interior was 24ra
The 40gt Flapwheel was 80-115 ra (depending on the location of the test)
The 100gt sandpaper was 16ra
The Green Scrubbie was 18ra
The S/S Scrubbie was 27ra
The S/S Toothbrush was 19ra
The polished area was 10ra or less.

So, just about any scrubbing short of a grinder will provide a surface near original or even better.
(Keeping in mind that this data is based on a beer keg kettle. If you have a pretty Blinkmann polished brewpot the starting surface ra is probably closer to 10ra and and scrubbing short of polishing will likely be a step down.)

Stay tuned.... The next test will be various forms of surface passivation and process specific corrosion testing on varied surface treatments. Anything particular that you guys might want to address in the next test?

 

[dmfa200]

Photomask,
You may want to start a new thread for this.
It may not get enough exposure in this thread.

 

[EarthBound]

Photomask,
You may want to start a new thread for this.
It may not get enough exposure in this thread.

I agree. For sure.

 

[Photomask]

WOW! I really thought the first post would have been a question about how the surface analysis was performed...

 

[dmfa200]

You must have a surface roughness tester at work.
What brand and model?

My prediction is, that if those were virgin abrasives there won't be much to discern other than the difference in the roughness.

Sorry, don't mean to sound like a jerk, but I've got 15 years experience working with stainless.

I've hit stainless with just about everything you can think of, short of chemicals and as long as you use uncontaminated non-ferrous tools on it, there's not gonna be any change other than the roughness you've created.

 

[Photomask]

You must have a surface roughness tester at work.
What brand and model?

My prediction is, that if those were virgin abrasives there won't be much to discern other than the difference in the roughness.

Sorry, don't mean to sound like a jerk, but I've got 15 years experience working with stainless.

I've hit stainless with just about everything you can think of, short of chemicals and as long as you use uncontaminated non-ferrous tools on it, there's not gonna be any change other than the roughness you've created.

I'm using a Federal Pocket Surf. There are better tools available for the task but for this purpose it is more than sufficient.

Virgin abrasives will leave a rougher surface until broken in. I elected to go with used as that is likely what most of such work will be done with.

Not a jerk at all. I welcome constructive input. Experience doesn't really matter. As soon as you think you know it all somebody else will show up with different experience and teach you something new. (The guy that teaches you something new could just as easily be a new kid or an old man.) I'm always up for learning something new. Just wait for the discussion on passivation and intended goals...

 

[dmfa200]

When you say used abrasives, have they been used on such things as carbon steel products? If so I can tell you what the outcome will be. "RUST!"

Surface roughness will have no bearing on corrosion. As long as the abrasive media is not contaminated with free iron.

 

[Photomask]

When you say used abrasives, have they been used on such things as carbon steel products? If so I can tell you what the outcome will be. "RUST!"

Surface roughness will have no bearing on corrosion. As long as the abrasive media is not contaminated with free iron.

These abrasives were used on stainless only.

Surface roughness does have an impact on corrosion resistance and that will be demonstrated in the next series of tests.

As for carbon or mild steel interacting if used on stainless, yes, if not passivated. That will be demonstrated in the next series of tests as well.

Corrosion will also be present in the HAZ of a stainless weldment. Also will be demonstrated in the next series of tests

I'm going to try and demonstrate the results of everything that gets argued about in regards to these areas of home brewing.

Any ideas I should include?

 

[northernlad]

I hope that wasn't directed at me.

I was simply taking suggestions for cleaning burnt stuff off the bottom of a SS kettle. After that, I decided what were valid suggestions and decided to try them out. I know I could've just used a SS scrubbie right off the bat, but I thought it would be helpful to try out some ideas. I'm usually willing to be a guinea pig, especially when it's a controversial topic.

In my case, scrubbing a little by hand would've pretty much done nothing. A SS wire brush for my angle grinder would've been required. I even bought one just in case the oven cleaner didn't work, but it did, so we're good.

Wasn't you.
I have seen a lot of reference to other's material about what will or will not happen but hadn't seen anyone who had actual with real world feedback.

 

[dmfa200]

In my experience, I have not noted any significant degree of corrosion with stainless steel in regards to surface roughness, in a neutral atmosphere, such as water or ambient air.
However, if exposed to corrosive chemicals, then yes I will agree those crevices left by abrasives can cause concentration that will lead to corrosion.

I got into a debate with one of the members on using abrasives to clean stainless steel.
The only reason I would be reluctant to do this is if I had a very expensive piece of equipment with a polished surface. Not because I would be afraid of contaminating the metal, but only because I wouldn't want to alter the polished finish.

I suggest you do a side by side comparison of stainless steel after using an iron contaminated media vs clean media.

 

[Photomask]

I suggest you do a side by side comparison of stainless steel after using an iron contaminated media vs clean media.

It was already on the list of test patches. With a carbon steel brush, a stainless steel brush that had been used on mild steel and a flap wheel that had been used on mild steel. With results to be shown unpassivated compared with three different methods of passivation. This is going to settle a lot of arguments and questions. Including a few of my own.

 

[iijakii]

Old thread - pardon the bump. It was at the top of the searches when I was checking earlier this week, figured I'd post my findings for anyone else in the same predicament.

I had some wicked scorching. There was a light brown (almost like when something starts rusting) coating across the entire bottom of my pot, and also three giant circles of a very dark / rough scorching.

• First I tried soaking in oxiclean and then scouring with a green scrubby pad for awhile. Got pretty much nothing off.
  
• Next I filled the pot with about a quarter inch of white vinegar and simmered that for awhile. 10 minutes, fifteen maybe. I could actually see the scorch coming off during the boil. Then I scrubbed it and it was much weaker/easier and I'd say about 80% of it came off.
  
• I finished with making a Bar Keepers Friend paste, applying it and letting it perform magic and science for maybe 5 minutes. Scrubbed the rest off with ease, and voila - beautiful pot.

Sadly I didn't take any before pictures, but here are two from afterwards. This pot has seen a good 30 direct-fire brews and a few BIAB mishaps where the bag ripped and I burnt grain. It looks perfect and I'm going to keep using it on the new electric rig I am building.


Cliffs: boiling vinegar works wonders.