Bummer and a big decision...

[Nate]

Sorry for the bad news Dude and I hope it works out. As you can tell from our brewery site, we're very close to our dog. I agree with Cheesefood and you just can't put a price on certain things.

Regarding the hamster story, good timing. My wife's teddy bear hamster grew a golf ball sized tumor in about a week... heading for surgery tomorrow. Decided to have the surgery done for the hamster, my wife's sanity, and my piece of mind.

 

[Dude]

This is so worth repeating. Thank you cheese.

I love my dog. I will spend money I don't have on him, and fill it in later.

But I will not allow him to live in pain.

It is better to love with all your heart, and let death take its course, than make one you love live with pain because you can't let go.

It's too bad we can't do the same with our human loved ones. I have terrible memories of my grandmother's last days, kept alive by machines as she begged for help with her pain. I can give my best friend rest from his pain, but I cannot give my grandmother rest from hers?

I apologize my friends, I didn't want to start something new. It is just something I need to get off my chest.

Damnit if I haven't choked myself up here. When my grandmother lived, she gave me, my girlfriend, and my brother $50. That was a lot for her, she lived on social security and the like, barely getting by. We kept the money because we wanted to find something to remind of us her. It was hard to find something to spend money on that meant something. We saved that money for over a year.

Eventually, we decided on a dog. The last of the money we spent on our puppy was what our grandma gave us. We spent her money on love - something that would love us in return. The final payment I made on our puppy was the money she gave us. He's two years old now and he's like my son to me.

Damn, it's been a long time since I cried. I guess I've never resolved this issue with myself. Some things you just can't seem to put in place. Other things never seem to be resolved.

That's a very nice tribute man.

 

[Cheesefood]

Good words by a lot of good people here.

Our pets are our children. They're the children we don't expect to outlive us, but we wish they would so we wouldn't have to see them in pain. Our society seems to value pets more than children because you don't have to prolong a pet's agony. You can put them down with dignity, bury them in your backyard and have them always close to home.

Loving an animal is the watermark for being a good person. If you could happily hurt and animal, you don't deserve to live. Even hunters know that the intention is a quick-kill. How many hunters would tolerate listening to one of their own talk about bow-hunting and letting one get away wounded? No one should ever want to see an animal hurt.

And likewise, animals don't like seeing us hurt. My dog curls up next to my wife whenever she's blubbering over some sappy movie. She's patient with my son when he pulls on her ears and tugs her fur. I've seen her allowed an autistic child who lived in our building to hold her, even though he was rougher than he should be. She did this because she knows that the intention is love.

I refuse to believe anyone who says that an animal is incapable of love. If instinct is all their driven by, then love is an instinct we're driven by. I see families of geese where the parents guard the young-ones. I've heard enough stories of wild animals protecting lost children. Or an animal adopting another animal baby when the mother dies (like a cat raising a dog). This is because there's the same instinct that we all have: protect the young. All of the young.

You don't have to be a vegetarian or a hippy to love animals, you can be a butcher, hunter or anything else. They give so much, and all they ask is for a belly-rub, scratch behind the ears, compliment, and a toy to play with. They're like us, but so much better.

 

[the_bird]

Great words, all true.

With that said, next time the cat sh*ts on the comfortor, I'm going to consider brewing a kittenbrau.

 

[Cheesefood]

Great words, all true.

With that said, next time the cat sh*ts on the comfortor, I'm going to consider brewing a kittenbrau.

I forgot to mention...my sentiments don't apply to cats. Thems are fer target practice.

 

[Treekiller]

Dude,
Sorry about your bad news, I like many here know from experience what you are going through. Earlier this year the sister of the Pekinese pictured in my avitar went through the very problem you describe. Her prognosis was not as good and after one injection of steroids she had to be laid to rest, there was no viable option. Best of luck.

 

[Cap'n Jewbeard]

Great words, all true.

With that said, next time the cat sh*ts on the comfortor, I'm going to consider brewing a kittenbrau.

Haha... oh man... kittenbrau... that reminds me of the Chickenbrau that, I think, is in the Bible. We should totally dare a forum member to hit that up one day.

I was never sympathetic to cats, at all, until I met my girlfriend who had just adopted her cat the week prior to our meeting. Abby (the cat) decided that I am a suitable "daddy" (and I guess my girlfriend agrees with her), and she's friendlier to me than any other cat, ever. I don't know that I could brew her.

Oh, I'd think about it. But I'd probably siss out in the end. She's totally got my facial expressions.

 

[the_bird]

I'm totally joking about the kittenbrau, if it wasn't painfully obvious. You'd never get the fur out of the primary, it'd be a complete mess.

Serious, I have two cats and a dog that I love very much. My wife and I lost our first cat a couple years ago, right around Christmas. Very, very, very suddently he got desperately ill. Had feline leukemia, in literally less than a day he went from his normal, outgoing self to being an absolute shell of himself, hiding in the back of a closet. Just nothing we could do, and the fact that feline leukemia is uber contagious and we had two other cats at the time just made it all the more stressful. Had to go to the folk's house and celebrate with the little ones while he was left home alone. Tough walking into a house expecting to find a dead cat (thankfully, he lasted a couple more days).

But, that was real tough. My wife had found him near-death when he was tiny, tine, anemic, completely covered in ticks, almost dead. Brought him to the vet, had to convince them that YES, she was going to pay for them to take care of this kitten she had just found, brought him back to health. Monstrous, jet black longhair, gorgoeus cat.

He also got the cops called on him (while my wife was at work), which is awesome.

So, if anyone from PETA is reading this, I'm not a cat-boiler (sorry to disappoint). Our other animals were all strays or from the kennel. One stray kitten that showed up on our porch and prompt jumped on my shoulder; IQ of a fenchpost but uber-friendly. Another stray kitten that was found at my wife's school with a bunch of others, this one cuddled up with his dead brother (he's actually with my folks now, too many animals). The dog - the DOG - is a pit bull / yellow lab mix we picked up at the no-kill shelter.

There is something different about the relationship with a dog, can't deny or explain. I can't even bring myself to think about what it will be like to see him get old, even though I know full well it's inevitable and I can easily imagine it happening with the kittens. Just how it is.

 

[Bernie Brewer]

You don't have to be a vegetarian or a hippy to love animals, you can be a butcher, hunter or anything else. They give so much, and all they ask is for a belly-rub, scratch behind the ears, compliment, and a toy to play with. They're like us, but so much better.

I agree. And I am a hunter, and I used to be a butcher. Weird, huh?

Not to hijack dude's thread, but I may also be facing some surgery for one of my dogs soon. They always sit under the kichen table while we eat our supper. My son managed to drop not one, but two chicken legs onto the floor, and our lab/greyhound mix swallowed them whole before I could reach in her mouth and grab them. Now we have to follow her around for the next couple days to see if she passes them. If she doesn't, she'll be going under the knife for a bowel obstruction. Yippee.

 

[Spyk'd]

Dude, one thing that may or may not have been said is that when you marry your mate, you marry everything that they're attached to, everything that they are and everything they will be.

It's total commitment and YOU take on all they do...


It's not your choice, either way and look into your love to make ANY decision that has to be made. It's NOT just about you...


(it's about you a little, I mean, you DO matter, however, women's matters, matter more......they just do)


Happy Marriage!@!@!

 

[the_bird]

Not to hijack dude's thread, but I may also be facing some surgery for one of my dogs soon. They always sit under the kichen table while we eat our supper. My son managed to drop not one, but two chicken legs onto the floor, and our lab/greyhound mix swallowed them whole before I could reach in her mouth and grab them. Now we have to follow her around for the next couple days to see if she passes them. If she doesn't, she'll be going under the knife for a bowel obstruction. Yippee.

That's too bad. Troy's managed to steal a bone or two off the table, but hasn't had any problems. Incidentally, I do feel that people who either eat chicken in their cars and throw the bones out onto the sidewalk, or who eat chicken on the sidewalk and drop their bonds where they stand, ought to have their legs broken.

Is there anything less pleasant in this world than taking a walk with the pooch, sun's coming up, nice and warm, no one's up yet, peaceful and quiet - then having him lunge at something unknown on the ground, then having to reach into his mouth to retrieve it?

 

[Nate]

I agree. And I am a hunter, and I used to be a butcher. Weird, huh?

Not to hijack dude's thread, but I may also be facing some surgery for one of my dogs soon. They always sit under the kichen table while we eat our supper. My son managed to drop not one, but two chicken legs onto the floor, and our lab/greyhound mix swallowed them whole before I could reach in her mouth and grab them. Now we have to follow her around for the next couple days to see if she passes them. If she doesn't, she'll be going under the knife for a bowel obstruction. Yippee.

I'm not sure that eating them whole is an issue. Cooked chicken bones are brittle and can produce sharp shards when chewed... hopefully with them going down whole she'll be fine. We're going through the same thing right now. I went out to mow the yard a couple weeks ago and, after an hour, returned to find half eaten chicken bones all over the house. Our dog jumped into the trash when I went outside and got into the chicken... he's ok so far but we're keeping our fingers crossed.

 

[Bernie Brewer]

Well I called the vet today to get some professional input. He said that 90% of the time they will pass on their own and that I should keep an eye on her for about four days and monitor her eating habits etc. He also said that it is now the better part of 24 hrs later and she is still full of piss and vinegar so that is a very good sign. so I will RDWHAH for now. Thanks all, and Dude thanks for not minding my hijacking your thread.

 

[Dude]

No change on Dixie. She isn't getting worse, isn't getting better either. I took her into the kennel to stay this weekend, as I'll be out of town for a few days, but I think judgement day will be when I get back or shortly thereafter.
I'm just concerned with the quality of life issue for this dog. Even if she does heal, if this happens again I know what I'm going to do immediately.

Plus, the vet is pissing me off. She made me feel guilty on the phone the other day for not electing to do the surgery. I asked her if she wanted to save the dog so bad, she should offer to do the surgery for free. She didn't even reply. Unreal.

 

[user 574]

Plus, the vet is pissing me off. She made me feel guilty on the phone the other day for not electing to do the surgery. I asked her if she wanted to save the dog so bad, she should offer to do the surgery for free. She didn't even reply. Unreal.

My previous post probably made me sound like a non-animal lover which is probably the farthest from the truth. My issue is exactly what you're getting here Dude; Vet's going off on spending $3k+ and acting like you're supposed to be surprised when you think otherwise on their recommendations. A good vet puts things into perspective on age, prognosis, quality of life afterwards etc from expensive procedures. My cousin is a vet and she's told me of a lot of "play on emotion" sh!t going on out there in her industry. Like human doctors, find qualiy vets who speak realistically about our loved ones.

 

[Caplan]

No change on Dixie. She isn't getting worse, isn't getting better either. I'm just concerned with the quality of life issue for this dog. Even if she does heal, if this happens again I know what I'm going to do immediately.

We're all getting older Dude - even Dixie too! I'd suggest just paying the cost this time. Especially if it's her first big Vet bill. Working Animals/Pets ARE expensive (Try paying towards a horse like i do!!!). She still sounds healthy and given the cage rest she'll be fine!

 

[Cheesefood]

Well I called the vet today to get some professional input. He said that 90% of the time they will pass on their own and that I should keep an eye on her for about four days and monitor her eating habits etc. He also said that it is now the better part of 24 hrs later and she is still full of piss and vinegar so that is a very good sign. so I will RDWHAH for now. Thanks all, and Dude thanks for not minding my hijacking your thread.

Wild dogs eat birds with no problem If your dog isn't choking, she'll pass it in due time. My little shih-tzu can gobble down a t-bone and poop it out without problems, so your monsters shouldn't be worried about a little chicken bone.

 

[Bernie Brewer]

No change on Dixie. She isn't getting worse, isn't getting better either. I took her into the kennel to stay this weekend, as I'll be out of town for a few days, but I think judgement day will be when I get back or shortly thereafter.
I'm just concerned with the quality of life issue for this dog. Even if she does heal, if this happens again I know what I'm going to do immediately

Plus, the vet is pissing me off. She made me feel guilty on the phone the other day for not electing to do the surgery. I asked her if she wanted to save the dog so bad, she should offer to do the surgery for free. She didn't even reply. Unreal.

I must be lucky in the vet department. He isn't afraid to to say when an animal has had enough, or when he thinks it is worth it to continue with rehabilitation. I pretty much trust his judgement, but then again he has never had to push any drastic care on me, either. I hope it turns out for you and Dixie, Dude.

 

[the_bird]

Wild dogs eat birds with no problem If your dog isn't choking, she'll pass it in due time. My little shih-tzu can gobble down a t-bone and poop it out without problems, so your monsters shouldn't be worried about a little chicken bone.

It's not that, it's the brittleness of the chicken bones after they are cooked. Steak bones aren't a problem, pig bones aren't a problem (I occassionally buy Troy these huge, smoked mosters, prolly weight six or seven pounts). You dog eats a chicken, he probably doesn't stop to cook it first. Cook it, the bones splinter up easily and can piece the digestive tract.

 

[The Happy Mug]

My cousin is a vet and she's told me of a lot of "play on emotion" sh!t going on out there in her industry. Like human doctors, find qualiy vets who speak realistically about our loved ones.

Play on emotions? I have first-hand experience with this. The first week we got Chance (right when we started bonding with him) he got really sick. We took him to a vet that diagnosed him positive for parvo, and told us it would be at least $400 to take care of him. Of course he diagnosed positive for parvo - he just got his vaccination! I told him that but was dismissed - "our tests don't lie" The vet explained how bad parvo was and that he has only a slim chance, but we had to act immediately. We felt trapped.

I immediately called our breeder and she told us to meet at her clinic. It turned out he was just in a hypoglaucemic shock. I'm not sure if that's the right term, but it's blood sugar shortage problems - very common in small breeds. They have a hard time regulating their blood sugar levels, and he hit pretty hard. He spent the night in the kennel with an IV of glucose/sucrose. I was told to make sure he got some honey everyday to prevent the problem from happening again until he grew up. My breeder covered the overnight visit.

Be careful, Dude. It might be worth looking for another vet.

 

[the_bird]

Be careful, Dude. It might be worth looking for another vet.

I agree, there's no need for that at all. You have to be able to trust your vet. If the vet is trying to goad you into doing a very expensive procedure, how confident do you feel that the procedure is 100% necessary? I'm not saying that it isn't, but the play on your guilt - if movitate by the vet's wallet - may tell you something about how objective their advice truly is.

There's enough really good, understanding vets out there where I would bring him in for a second opinion. Ease your mind.

We've been lucky with our vets, they've all been people we trust. The one in our last town sent us a sympathy card after our cat passed away, with a very sincere (or at least sincere-sounding) note. I thought it was a very classy thing for them to do, not sure if that's SOP.

 

[AHammer16]

I swear sometimes vets PISS ME OFF. They charge outrageous amounts for their services; and sometimes the equivalent human procedure costs the same or less after Ins companies do their usual & customary. My wife years ago slammed the front door shut while our cat was between the screen & inner door. Cat tried to get out and was just a bit slow. She nipped 4-5" of the tail. Bla, bla, cry, cry she takes the cat to the vet. Calls me and it's $450 to cut it clean and sew it up. I started in on the phone to bring her home and I'd do it myself with a knife, thread and styptic pencil :cross:. She hung up on me and had it done. I don't think my friggen vasectomy was much more than that.

Well i can see you have absolutly no idea of what you are talking about. Tell me what medical procedure you can get on youself that is cheeper than the same procedure on an animal! Insurance doesn't factor in to it. What about people who don't have medical insurance, have you even looked at you bill from any of your doctors to see what amount the insurance company paid. You will be shocked at how much human doctors charge.

Vet. medicine does not charge outragous amounts of money. How much do you think it cost the doctor to go through school? Do you have any idea what surgical equipment costs? Veternarians have to pay the near the same ridicously high prices on medications and medical supplies that human practicioners do.

You got a vasectomy for $450? There is no way it was $450. Unless of course you went south of the border and had some nut job, no pun intended, do the work with kitchen gloves and a steak knife.

No but she may have slid the Dr some $ to make sure I got an infection from the procedure .

You are proving my point for me.

Now my rant is over. No offense to any one. Oh by the way can you guess what i do for a living?

 

[AHammer16]

Wild dogs eat birds with no problem If your dog isn't choking, she'll pass it in due time. My little shih-tzu can gobble down a t-bone and poop it out without problems, so your monsters shouldn't be worried about a little chicken bone.

Stop feeding your dog cow bones! It will catch up to you. Are you familliar with eating a dorito and you dont chew it right and it scrapes you all the way down? Now imagine the sharp t bone fragments travilling through you dogs bowels and emerging from her butt. Any questions.

 

[AHammer16]

Play on emotions? I have first-hand experience with this. The first week we got Chance (right when we started bonding with him) he got really sick. We took him to a vet that diagnosed him positive for parvo, and told us it would be at least $400 to take care of him. Of course he diagnosed positive for parvo - he just got his vaccination! I told him that but was dismissed - "our tests don't lie" The vet explained how bad parvo was and that he has only a slim chance, but we had to act immediately. We felt trapped.

I immediately called our breeder and she told us to meet at her clinic. It turned out he was just in a hypoglaucemic shock. I'm not sure if that's the right term, but it's blood sugar shortage problems - very common in small breeds. They have a hard time regulating their blood sugar levels, and he hit pretty hard. He spent the night in the kennel with an IV of glucose/sucrose. I was told to make sure he got some honey everyday to prevent the problem from happening again until he grew up. My breeder covered the overnight visit.

Be careful, Dude. It might be worth looking for another vet.

If your dog tested positive for parvo then it had parvo. It takes a while for any vaccine to affect the immune system and create an immunity. In my experiance breeders are the money grubbing morons. They all think they know what they are doing and it turns out they have no clue and they end up harming the animal. I think you got lucky and the dog had a mild infection. And by the way 400 dollars is cheap to treat Parvo.

 

[user 574]

Well i can see you have absolutly no idea of what you are talking about. Tell me what medical procedure you can get on youself that is cheeper than the same procedure on an animal! Insurance doesn't factor in to it.

Let me just state that I totally respect both yours and the human medical field & the amount of commitment, education & $ it takes to get there. But from the human side of the medical field, Insurance plays a huge part of cost comparatives with human and pet fees. When you look at what the Dr charges, yes probably always higher than equivalent vet service. However what the human Dr, lab, radiologist etc actually gets paid is not always higher, often equal and sometimes much lower. My rant is officially on how the insurance industry (& corporations) have screwed the medical field up and here I have a lot of knowledge. This is kind of off topic, kind of not (sorry Dude).

Example, my dog had to have some blood tests to check for something called Coccidiomycosis (valley fever). Vet fee for the lab work was $88. My wife has to have complicated blood tests monthly (transplant patient). Total charge is $206 but the key is after the insurance puts their reasonable and customary the lab only gets $53. I got bloodwork done 4 months ago. Total charge $101, insurance says reasonable is $15 so that's all they get. This is just for labs but holds true on other diagnostic tests such as radiology, office visits et. I'm just stating what I've been charged by my vet but another:

Radiology my Dog - Exposures, Setup, STAT Interpretation: $132
Radiology human (me) chest - $280 - Insurance reasonable pd: $66

If I nipped the tip off my finger, they'd probably charge 1000+ but they'd probably get $300-$500 after the insurance said what is "usual". Major human surgery; yea is always quite a bit higher (cancer, surgery etc). I'm not saying vets over charge and doctors do charge much more but theres a reason they charge so high and it's all a game. The unlucky patients are those without medical insurance because then you do end up paying the full charge which has been inflated. This is how doctors recoup the ridiculously low payments they get from insurance companies on many services where they loose money. If I was someone interested in the medical field I'd choose vet, not because of the $ but because of the BS doctors have to go through nowadays with insurance.

Oh yea, 1996 vasectomy charge:
Hospital: 687 - Ins Pd: $417
Doctor: 513 - Ins Pd: $327
Total: $740

Fixing Sassy's tail $400 - The human doctor got less...

 

[Bernie Brewer]

Stop feeding your dog cow bones! It will catch up to you. Are you familliar with eating a dorito and you dont chew it right and it scrapes you all the way down? Now imagine the sharp t bone fragments travilling through you dogs bowels and emerging from her butt. Any questions.

I disagree-sort of. I was a meat cutter for quite a few years and we used to sell beef femur bones for dogs. In fact I used to give them to my dogs quite a bit. The trick is that first it's a femur bone-the hardest bone in the body- and second it is not cooked. A dog can gnaw on it for weeks and never break it up. A cooked bone is a different story, though. They are brittle and can easily be broken up. I was worried about the chicken bones that my dog ate not because it would break, but because she swallowed them whole and I was afraid they would get stuck somewhere (they didn't; she's fine ).

 

[Bernie Brewer]

You got a vasectomy for $450? There is no way it was $450. Unless of course you went south of the border and had some nut job, no pun intended, do the work with kitchen gloves and a steak knife. You are proving my point for me.

It's possible. I paid $600 for mine six years ago, and I know that was full price because insurance doesn't cover it. So if he had it done ten or fifteen years ago I would believe that number.

 

[Jester4176]

heh...arguing and getting upset on the internet. WOW, I thought this was a relaxed forum. I grew up on a farm, and had more dogs and cats than I can count. After my last pet died in 96, I switched to fish. I know some of you may think a pet is only a dog, cat, hampster, etc....but fish ROCK!! Best pets EVER. They look great, don't destroy/piss/crap on my stuff, make NO noise, don't wake me up, never have to be walked, and if I forget to feed them on morning, they're cool about it when I get home. And I'll never have to worry about visits to the vet, or charges to have them put down.

Sure, I've had a handful croak on me...and I flushed them without thinking twice. And I wasn't depressed about it. Except for that lionfish I lost...I was pissed because he cost a lot of money compared to the other fish I have. Twice a month I clean filters, and do a monthly water chance. My fish love me. If anyone's looking for an easy maintenance pet...look into fish. Oh, and when someone tells you saltwater fish are incredibly hard to take care of, slap them and buy those fish. I started on Saltwater, and have lost fewer fish with it than my freshwater tanks.

Just my $.02

 

[user 574]

I once had fish. 55g tank and 5 little piranha. Feed them goldfish. If you forget to feed them that day, they eat the slowest of their kind. Eventually I had one piranha that was the size of a large bluegill. I sold the last one to the pet store but he got the last laugh as he bit through the bag on the way into the store and bit my damn finger. Evil little bugger he was.

 

[the_bird]

We have fish, but they don't really count as pets, IMHO.

The one bad experience we had with fish was when one of them died the day we were having a big get-together with the family. My nephew, probably four or so at the time, was looking at the fish and was the one to notice that one was floating on the top of the tank. We, of course, had to flush 'im (no tears shed, of course), but the conversation he had with my brother was so sad...

"Where's the fish going, Dad?"
"To fish heaven, son."