BU:GU for Choc PB RIS

[ChildBear]

Hi. I'm pretty new to homebrewing and for my third batch I'm hoping to make a Chocolate Peanut Butter Russian Imperial Stout.
The recipe is modified from Zainasheff's Brewing Classic Style 'The Czar's Revenge'

5.5g batch
Estimated OG (from Brewers friend recipe calculator) - 1.089

Steeping Grains
Briess Black Roasted Barley 407L - 1 lb
Briess Chocolate Malt 350L - 1 lb
Dingemans Special B malt 115L 1 lb
Caramel Munich Malt 60L 1 lb

The roasted barley and chocolate malt will be steeped overnight in 1 gallon water at room temp. The special B and Caramunich will be steeped for 30 min at 1 gallon water at 165.

Fermentables
Briess DME - Golden Light 4L 11 lb

Additional Ingredients
Cocoa Powder (unsweetened) 0.5 lb at T0
Brewers Best peanut butter flavoring 4 oz at bottling

Now here's what I can't decide. What should my BU:GU be if I want the chocolate and the PB flavors to really come through without the bitterness from the steeping grains or the hops overpowering it.
The original recipe (that does not have chocolate or PB) has an IBU of 77 and BU:GU of 0.78 which I worry might be too high for my liking. I'd much rather prefer a slightly malty stout over a super-hoppy one. A search on the Internet gives me answers ranging from 0.44 to 0.56 or even 0.80 that someone on HBT said is the ideal BU:GU for an RIS.

What do you guys think?

Fwiw, I have access to Ekuanot (AA 14%) and Kent Golding (AA 4.3%) hops and will be using dry Lutra yeast for this.

 

[mashdar]

You could cut it to 0.5 if you don't mind sweet beer.

edit: also, if you want low hop character, use your high alpha at 60m+ exclusively.

 

[mac_1103]

The original recipe (that does not have chocolate or PB) has an IBU of 77 and BU:GU of 0.78 which I worry might be too high for my liking. I'd much rather prefer a slightly malty stout over a super-hoppy one.

High sounding IBU and BU:GU are typical for RIS, but they are not super-hoppy because of the residual sweetness inherent to brewing a very high OG beer. Your FG is probably going to be close to 1.030.

 

[ChildBear]

High sounding IBU and BU:GU are typical for RIS, but they are not super-hoppy because of the residual sweetness inherent to brewing a very high OG beer. Your FG is probably going to be close to 1.030.

Do you suggest then to keep the BU:GU of 0.78 as it was in the original recipe?

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, I brew a double imperial chocolate honey stout with expect OG of 1.107 and 84 IBUs for a 0.76 BU/SG ratio...

Cheers!

 

[Dgallo]

I would do somewhere between .5-.75. For a true Russian imperial stout I’d use .75.

Since you’re adjuncting it with cocoa nibs and peanut butter, I’d go with .5 personally. In my opinion you want the character from them to pop and not be conflict with the bitterness if you went up to .75 and turn the chocolate to bitter sweet dark chocolate and peanut butter could come across as over roasted.

Especially with nearly 20% of roasted grains in your grain bill as the dark grains will add it’s own bitterness. More over your not yet to the stage in your brewing where your dialing in your water chemistry and ph. The lower BU/GU will be more forgiving and will hopefully prevent it from being astringent

 

[ChildBear]

fwiw, I brew a double imperial chocolate honey stout with expect OG of 1.107 and 84 IBUs for a 0.76 BU/SG ratio...

Cheers!

That sounds amazing. Mind sharing the recipe?

 

[ChildBear]

I would do somewhere between .5-.75. For a true Russian imperial stout I’d use .75.

Since you’re adjuncting it with cocoa nibs and peanut butter, I’d go with .5 personally. In my opinion you want the character from them to pop and not be conflict with the bitterness if you went up to .75 and turn the chocolate to bitter sweet dark chocolate and peanut butter could come across as over roasted.

Especially since with nearly 20% of roasted grains in your grain bill as the dark grains will add it’s on bitterness. More over your not yet to the stage in your brewing where your dialing in your water chemistry and ph. The lower BU/GU will be more forgiving and will hopefully prevent it from being astringent

I think this makes the most sense to me. I'll go ahead with 0.5 and hope for the best.

 

[day_trippr]

That sounds amazing. Mind sharing the recipe?

lol - I've shared this recipe often but can never find it on HBT again, probably a dozen copies lost inside the machine. Black Patent and Black Barley being essentially identical, sometimes there's a split in the leftovers from one purchase to another. Use all of one or the other. Aside from that it's been pretty stable for years. Also - and I've mentioned this as recently as within the last 2 weeks - while I almost always hit within a point on the expected OG, the final ABV has ranged between 10 and 12%, though it tends towards the higher side. The 13th batch I'm enjoying finished at 12.1% as shown, but I have the 14th batch just about to be "nibbed" and that is currently sitting at 11.8%

Anyway, here ya go.

As this is my nightly soporific I'm currently sipping a short pour with the expectation I'll be lulled to sleep shortly

Cheers!

 

[IslandLizard]

lol - I've shared this recipe often but can never find it on HBT again

Thank you very much for sharing your recipe. It looks truly sumptuous!

AFAIK, I don't think I've ever seen your recipe...
I did a search for it and you're mentioning it quite often:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/search...ocolate+stout&c[users]=day_trippr&o=relevance
alas, the few posts I checked there don't have the recipe included...

A few Qs:
You're using 3 extracts, Chocolate, Coffee and Vanilla. What kind of extracts (brands) are you using, or do you think have been most successful?
Are the Cacao nibs steeped in alcohol (Everclear) for a week or longer before adding to the secondary?

 

[day_trippr]

See, you can't find them either, but I guarantee I've posted that recipe at least 5 times.
Extracts are always Nielsen-Massey.
I marinade the nibs in dark rum for at least a week but usually two or even more.

Cheers!

 

[HM-2]

fwiw, I brew a double imperial chocolate honey stout with expect OG of 1.107 and 84 IBUs for a 0.76 BU/SG ratio...

Cheers!

I target 0.75 BU/GU for big dark beers.

 

[dmtaylor]

When a RIS has "other stuff" in it such as chocolate and peanut butter or anything else, it shouldn't be as bitter as the actual RIS style because you want to be able to enjoy these other characters. I would aim for BU:GU of about 0.5 for this one.

But with zero adjuncts, go ahead and turn it all the way up to 11.

 

[hottpeper13]

It also depends on how long you plan to condition an RIS. Brewed on in Jan. put in a barrel in Feb., just kegged it yesterday and will be served at Thanksgiving( black friday brew). Notty, finished at 1.020 with a 1:1 BU/GU,and the hydro sample was awesome, and a bit sweet. No adjuncts.

 

[sibelman]

if you don't mind sweet beer

the residual sweetness inherent to brewing a very high OG beer

To me, the sweetness issue is key. Bitterness may somewhat reduce the perception of chocolate and peanut, but is essential to counterbalance the sweetness of high gravity brews. Mashing at low temperature may help somewhat, but dropping the bittering hops too far would make for sweetness that would, for me, interfere with enjoyment. It will be a dessert beer no matter what.

NOTE: this thread encourages me to get an imperial stout (maybe with PB extract/tincture) going on my next brew day!

 

[Cloud Surfer]

Too much cloying/sweetness in the finish of big beers affects the drinkability of the beer as well as competition success, if you’re into that. I target a BU/GU of 0.65 for my Imperial Stouts.

It took me a few years to dial in the balance, but recipe and water and FG play an equally significant role in how dry/sweet the finish is.

 

[Dgallo]

Just want to remind everyone that the ops recipe isn’t really that big of a beer.

1.089 down to most likely down to roughly 1.025. That’s only 8.2-8.4% abv. That’s your average double ipa in today’s market. 45-50 ibus with the added bitterness/roast from dark grains will be fine and balanced. It may shift slightly to a sweet finish but it by no means be cloyingly sweet. And he’s adding adjuncts so it will definitely finish fine where the chocolate and peanut butter character will be showcased