Brut IPA hop problem

[mrphillips]

A buddy and I brewed our first Brute IPA, and found that when it was all said and done, there was very little hop flavor or hop smell...which was difficult for us to wrap our heads around because we annihilated it with 2 oz. of cascade/Amarillo (+) 2 oz citra in the last 15 minutes. We did a modest bittering at 60 min. (.5 oz cascade), but with the gravities going from 1.045 down to 1.006, we didn't want to over do it.

We fermented with S-05 for 2 weeks (getting it down to 1.010), then pitched champagne yeast and waited another week (finishing at 1.006). My question is, could the champagne yeast have affected the hop presence in the beer? The beer tastes really good...but it's a Summer Ale...not an IPA.

As always, thanks for any info you can toss my way!

 

[couchsending]

Did you use enzymes?

Did you dry hop the beer?

 

[Jag75]

Is this a 5 gallon batch ? I suspect you didnt dry hop .

 

[mrphillips]

No dry hop and yes, this was a 5 gallon batch. The beer tasted very well balanced...but no hops in sight.

 

[Jag75]

You should dry hop it .

 

[kevin58]

Did you use enzymes? You shouldn't need the second yeast pitch if you did (plus I'm not a fan of using champagne yeast at all). As for the hop presence, did you whirlpool hop? It helps a lot if you do.

 

[eric19312]

Dry hop and next time use glucoamylase enzyme instead of the champagne yeast. Add the enzyme to your boil kettle after you have chilled below 130F while it is still circulating (if you chill with immersion chiller) or into the fermentor if you chill direct to the fermentor through plate or counter flow chiller. You really want your gravity lower. 1.000 or lower and gluco in the fermentor will get you there.

Dry hop this batch in the keg if you kegged. It will help. Next batch be sure to dry hop and maybe move most of that 15 minute addition to the whirlpool. If you get the beer down to 1.000 FG you will not need any bitterness from that 15 minute addition and it might as well all go to flavor and aroma.

 

[couchsending]

Haven’t seen an “IPA” in a long time that hasn’t been dry hopped.

Too there’s no reason to add champagne yeast. It is incapable of fermenting the complex sugars in beer. It’s great to use for its high ABV tolerance and for bottling but not for primary in beer unless you do use enzymes which will break the complex sugars so champagne yeast can ferment them. If you want to add something to dry a beer out, belle saison is the way to go.

I have no idea why your gravity went down another 1* plato but it probably wasn’t because of the champagne yeast.

If you’re starting gravity is that low you should be able to get the beer down to 1 plato or less with SO5 if you mash really low for 90 minutes and use some sugar. Don’t even need the enzymes.

 

[mrphillips]

Great info! I knew that adding the necessary enzymes was an option, but thought for sure that the champagne yeast would cleanup the residual sugars. Live and learn to brew again!

Also we mashed as low as I like to go (145-150). I’m guessing the “rub” must be the absence of enzymes.

I’m thinkin you’re right about the whirlpool as well. We threw in a large flameout addition, but then went right to the wart chiller.

 

[Grant McKinley]

Great info! I knew that adding the necessary enzymes was an option, but thought for sure that the champagne yeast would cleanup the residual sugars. Live and learn to brew again!

Also we mashed as low as I like to go (145-150). I’m guessing the “rub” must be the absence of enzymes.

I’m thinkin you’re right about the whirlpool as well. We threw in a large flameout addition, but then went right to the wart chiller.

I whirlpool 1 oz of two different hops for 30 minutes, load the fermenter, wait 3 days (fermentation is done) dump yeast, add 5.0 ml of amylase enzyme and dry hop 6 oz. of hops for 3 days. Gravity ends around 1.002. Shooting for 1.000, last batch is 2 days in the fermenter and its dropped 3.75 plato (.015 SP).

 

[eric19312]

I whirlpool 1 oz of two different hops for 30 minutes, load the fermenter, wait 3 days (fermentation is done) dump yeast, add 5.0 ml of amylase enzyme and dry hop 6 oz. of hops for 3 days. Gravity ends around 1.002. Shooting for 1.000, last batch is 2 days in the fermenter and its dropped 3.75 plato (.015 SP).

Try betaglucanase instead of alpha analyses next time.

 

[Tyler Hurst]

Also when did you add the enzyme? Enzymes added in fermentation are known for muting hop flavors by somewhat denaturing the hop oils. If you added in Mash then you should definitely dry hop. Social kitchens original recipe says 7oz in dry hop

 

[Grant McKinley]

Sorry, for the delay. I added the enzyme at the end of fermentation. Its cold crashing now at 1.002.

 

[doug293cz]

Sorry, for the delay. I added the enzyme at the end of fermentation. Its cold crashing now at 1.002.

Enzymes work much slower at ferm temps compared to mash temps. Think days instead of minutes. You should ferment for an additional 4 - 5 days after adding enzymes to the fermenter. Best is to track SG until it flatlines at FG.

Brew on

 

[Grant McKinley]

Enzymes work much slower at ferm temps compared to mash temps. Think days instead of minutes. You should ferment for an additional 4 - 5 days after adding enzymes to the fermenter. Best is to track SG until it flatlines at FG.

Brew on

Yep, temp was at 68 Deg. for 5 days with the enzymes, just started crashing it 2 days ago. Doesn't look like its going to drop any more but I did get an additional 0.002 out of it. We'll see.

 

[eric19312]

Also when did you add the enzyme? Enzymes added in fermentation are known for muting hop flavors by somewhat denaturing the hop oils. If you added in Mash then you should definitely dry hop. Social kitchens original recipe says 7oz in dry hop

Where does this information about enzymes muting hop flavors come from? I searched and didn’t find but did find interesting stuff about dry hop contributing enzymes driving additional attenuation on their own.

 

[yourlastchance89]

I would recommend enzymes in the mash over post-boil. From what I heard in one of the more recent Beersmith podcasts with Mitch Steele, Mitch stated when the enzymes for Brut IPAs are exposed to equipment post-fermentation it poses risks for over-attenuation for all future beers that utilize the same equipment since these enzymes are harder to sanitize. Post-mash and in the boil they still break down the sugars and still denature in the boil.

 

[eric19312]

I would recommend enzymes in the mash over post-boil. From what I heard in one of the more recent Beersmith podcasts with Mitch Steele, Mitch stated when the enzymes for Brut IPAs are exposed to equipment post-fermentation it poses risks for over-attenuation for all future beers that utilize the same equipment since these enzymes are harder to sanitize. Post-mash and in the boil they still break down the sugars and still denature in the boil.

Honestly in most homebrew I’ve tried under attenuation is much more common and much more detrimental to enjoyability of the beer than is over attenuation. I’m not planning to let concern about potential over attenuation of some future batch prevent me from getting the most out of the enzymes I use in making a brut ipa.

 

[couchsending]

Nevermind

 

[yourlastchance89]

Honestly in most homebrew I’ve tried under attenuation is much more common and much more detrimental to enjoyability of the beer than is over attenuation. I’m not planning to let concern about potential over attenuation of some future batch prevent me from getting the most out of the enzymes I use in making a brut ipa.

That's fine if that's what you're going for, but for those not wanting overattenuation, or to piggyback off what was said earlier about how these enzymes may take days longer to work in the fermenter, I would say be cautious when bottling.