BrunDog 50A eRig - no HLT for me!

[Jaybird]

Thanks Jay! It's got one of your false bottoms, which is such a quality piece. I always crack up putting it in the cheap bayou kettles, thinking how my MLT "dates up" when it gets installed!

Ha Ha Ha "Dates up" love it. Its kind of just like us brewers! We always seem to date up... I know I sure did.

Cheers
Jay

 

[martyphee]

Love the build.

QQ - you mentioned in another thread of a hydrostatic sensor to measure volume. Doesn't look like it was used here. Was it used in another build?
- Where did you get the large (looks like 3/4" or better) cam quick connects?

 

[BrunDog]

Thanks. See post 221.

The 3/4" Female NPT - Camlock fittings are from brewhardware.com

 

[canmorebrewguy]

Hi Todd,

Got these Cantherm high tolerance (0.5%) pieces from DigiKey: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/MF51E103E3950/317-1305-ND/1191080

Very small, easy to wire. Note that the wires look like wires but are coated for insulation and need to be cleaned at the ends before soldering in.

-BD

Hey BrunDog,
I am just getting around to building my temp probes and I bought the thermistors that you recommended but I can not find the coefficients for them. Would you know where I can find them or better yet do you know them?

I looked on Cantherms site and all i could find is resistance charts, and I am getting way out of my depth.

Cheers,
CBG

 

[BrunDog]

I used an online calculator to determine them. I am away from my computer right now but will look them up and reply later.

 

[crane]

Check out the following link for more on calculating the steinhart-hart coefficients from resistance curves. There is a program that can be used to do the math for you. If you Google around there is probably a spreadsheet out there somewhere that might be easier to use than their software.

http://thermistor.sourceforge.net

However, if BrunDog is nice enough he can probably give the coefficients he is using.

 

[canmorebrewguy]

Check out the following link for more on calculating the steinhart-hart coefficients from resistance curves. There is a program that can be used to do the math for you. If you Google around there is probably a spreadsheet out there somewhere that might be easier to use than their software.

http://thermistor.sourceforge.net

However, if BrunDog is nice enough he can probably give the coefficients he is using.

I tried using a calculator from the bcs website but after I enter the last temp the graph wipes out. Then I saw that there are 4 different values of resistance in the 10K range so now I am confused

 

[BrunDog]

I tried using a calculator from the bcs website but after I enter the last temp the graph wipes out. Then I saw that there are 4 different values of resistance in the 10K range so now I am confused

Here are the values I have been using:

A = 0.0011235946
B = 0.0002356964
C = 7.6010879159e-8

Here is my calculator of choice: http://www.thinksrs.com/downloads/programs/Therm Calc/NTCCalibrator/NTCcalculator.htm

 

[canmorebrewguy]

Here are the values I have been using:

A = 0.0011235946
B = 0.0002356964
C = 7.6010879159e-8

Here is my calculator of choice: http://www.thinksrs.com/downloads/programs/Therm Calc/NTCCalibrator/NTCcalculator.htm

Sir you are a gentleman and a scholar! Thank you for the quick response and the help.
Cheers,
Todd

 

[BrunDog]

Just added an external reset button and internal-external pathway for the USB connection (for debugging). I actually have little reason for these as it's been solid for weeks - the LiPo battery has ensured continuity through power failures, etc. I have put the lid on it with less expectation of needing to open it.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1483823475.040497.jpg
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1483823496.751837.jpg

 

[thekraken]

Hello Folks,

Been a while since I updated this thread with build updates. Probably because I have been happily brewing. I really have the system dialed in (or probably better stated, I have me dialed in to the system) and have been successfully making decent beer!!

That said, the itch for better is never completely scratched. So, in with the next idea. I had been contemplating fluid level measurement beyond the capacitive level switches I have been using. Don't get me wrong - they have been working flawlessly - but they are binary and require manual setup and one adjustment during the brew.

I reviewed the myriad of sensing methods, and given I have the Arduino integrated into my BCS system, I thought using an analog sensor was practical. I decided that the best approach for me was to use a static pressure sensor: low cost, easy to implement, reliable, out of the way, etc. I didn't want to use the bubbler/tube method as that seemed overly cumbersome as it requires a tube inside the kettle, and air pump, etc. instead, I implemented a standard low pressure sensor at the base of the kettle, using an air gap to prevent liquid ingress to the sensor.

I silver soldered another coupling to the bottom of my mash tun. Its the smaller one near the edge:
View attachment 369926

Then I mounted the setup below. Please note the sensor is wired and mounted temporarily for testing here:
View attachment 369927

In this configuration, liquid will fill the metal piping but not fill back up the tube toward the sensor as a result of the air pressure there. Note the manual valve on the bottom of the tee is for draining of the piping after use.

Here is a look of the updated interface, with the level calibrated. Would you believe I was only off by 0.2 quarts using my initial calculated calibration!?!
View attachment 369928

Looking forward to watching this read out in my next Brew. If all goes well, I will incorporate into the BCS control and obviate the capacitive sensors.

How has this level sensor been holding up? Do you do periodic calibration checks? I bought one of these sensors a few years ago but never got around to playing with it... yet.

I seem to remember the brewtroller guys needed the bubbler for accurate readings, I don't remember the details. Have you found a way around this?

 

[BrunDog]

Hi. Yes, it has been working flawlessly, and surprisingly accurate. More accurate I think than my eyes reading a sight glass!

Calibration is idiot easy because all I have to do is fill the port until it reaches the top. That is zero. Or, when it is empty, it is a negative number (-15 qts or so), so it cal be calibrated that way too. But that said, it never really needs calibration.

The bubbler solution is for those placing a stainless tube into their vessel from the top. The bubbler thing is necessary in that configuration because the changing air temperature inside affects the liquid height in the tube, and it needs to stay at the bottom. Since mine is bottom and remote mounted, or more importantly, relies on a very small volume of air to isolate the sensor, this is not required on this type of configuration. TBH, I am surprised someone else hasn't done it this way.

I am going to SIDE mount the sensor in my BK. The benefit of side mounting, other than nothing underneath the vessel, is there is no need to drain the port of its column of liquid post use. Done right, it will self drain. I figure for the BK, given all the hops in the liquid, this is a better approach. The downside is that you can't read from zero liquid up. This is of course not necessary, as I will always be looking for measurements > 5 gallons. The lowest I think I can get it will result in reading at around the 1 gallon+ mark. I will post up pictures when done!

 

[thekraken]

Thanks jcav. Here is a pic of my last brew's whirlpool result. This and my attempted turn dam helped reduce, but not eliminate hop debris. The dam is U-shaped and supposed to point open toward the whirlpool arm but somehow it got turned.

This was a 5 gallon lager, so not the kind of hope you would get from an IPA!

-BDView attachment 302177

How are your latest whirlpool attempts? Still using this dam?

 

[BrunDog]

I have generally been going without as of late, probably more of lazyness and the fact that it sometimes changes its orientation during the boil. The nipple screwed into the bottom helps act as a small damn and seems to work OK. I think the whirlpool works well, but I probably still pull too much hop debris in. Just haven't worked hard to address it yet.

 

[BrunDog]

Along with BruControl changes, I finally got around to adding liquid level sensing to my Boil Kettle. Several posts up, I showed a way to add liquid level sensing to my Mash Tun using an air pressure sensor. I would prefer a direct contact sensor but they are wicked expensive for the task. So using regular air pressure sensors makes sense at ~$15 each. This has been done before so I take no credit, but I did implement the technique which I hadn't seen before.

I think it is a good approach because it almost eliminates air in tube above the sensor. This is important because as the temperature of the air changes, its volume changes too, drawing in liquid volume as it cools. This volume change problem is pronounced when using a long tube into the kettle, and is typically mitigated using the "air bubbler" design - but that is hardware I would rather not need.

This time I opted a slightly different configuration. Rather than the liquid column underneath I added a port to the side of the kettle. Here is a look at the layouts for comparison:


The design on the left (my mash tun) has the benefit of measuring liquid from zero, which also makes zero calibration easy - all I have to do is fill the tube until it just overflows into the tun bottom. But, this can collect stray grains and requires flushing after, therfore needs a valve to dump the flush. On the right (now my boil kettle), there is no flushing needed after, but I cannot measure from zero which makes calibrating a little more difficult. Of course measuring from the bottom is not critical because we are doing volumes well over 5 gallons.

Here is a look at the install. I would have prefered to solder on a half coupling, but it would have required me taking the BK off the stand which would have been a PITA because of the motorized valve mounted to the bottom. So I put together a simple weldless design.

Here are the fittings. This is a SS 1/8" NPT x 0.170" barbed elbow, some washers, jam nut, and o-ring. One of the washers is trimmed to avoid pinching the tube. The tubing is tygon, which is soft, pliable, and can stand the heat.


I drilled a hole low in the kettle:


Taped the fitting, put through, and added the O-ring:


Added the jam nut:


Here is what it looks like outside:


Used a little box for the sensor:


And mounted underneath (what can I say - I like zip ties):


After a brief zero calibration and same multiplier as the mash sensor, all looks good in BC (level in the middle) after adding 5 gallons using a measured pitcher:


Now, one problem with this layout is there is tubing that has air in it. It will be sensitive to temperature changes, and admittedly as I sit here writing this, I am seeing some creep as a result. I will report back after more use!

 

[cod3ck]

Sorry if I missed the post, but what software is that BrunDog?

 

[BrunDog]

Sorry if I missed the post, but what software is that BrunDog?

It's a brewery control and automation system project I've helped develop: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=624198

I edited my sig - thanks for shaking my tree!

 

[augiedoggy]

It's a brewery control and automation system project I've helped develop: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=62419

I edited my sig - thanks for shaking my tree!

I think the thread you linked here was the wrong one..

 

[BrunDog]

Thanks AD... fixed it!

 

[BrunDog]

Here is a look at my new panel. The BCS was replaced with the Arduino MEGA, and an Ethernet2 shield, mounted on this screw shield:https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00UT13YXA/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

The MEGA communicates with BruControl via ethernet, but I have an ethernet-Wifi bridge (TP-LINK 710N) outside the control panel because I had it for my BCS.

 

[Wizard_of_Frobozz]

As I look at your build thread for the 527th time , I have a few questions regarding your setup:

1. You only use one flowmeter now, correct? It measures flow into the RIMS tube; mash outflow during sparging is controlled via a proportional valve? When I initiate recirculation right after dough-in, I slowly establish recirc while watching my level gauge on the mash tun (it acts like a manometer to tell me when I'm pulling too hard). Eventually I get a stable recirc rate and can walk away from the ball valve. Seem like you could automate this with your setup - your thoughts?

2. Are you using this flowmeter? https://www.adafruit.com/product/828. If so, the specs say it's range is 1-30 L/min. Typical sparge rate is 1qt/min, so slightly below the minimum of this range. How's the accuracy down that low?

3. RIMS Heater size: You use 120V for mashing, and 240V for sparge heating. What do you think about just wiring up the heater for 240V and limiting the duty cycle to 25% during mashing? With a short enough cycle time, it seems like that would achieve the same thing as switching voltage and save a lot of wiring/complexity.

Thanks for such a great build thread and putting up with all our constant questions!

 

[BrunDog]

As I look at your build thread for the 527th time , I have a few questions regarding your setup:

1. You only use one flowmeter now, correct? It measures flow into the RIMS tube; mash outflow during sparging is controlled via a proportional valve? When I initiate recirculation right after dough-in, I slowly establish recirc while watching my level gauge on the mash tun (it acts like a manometer to tell me when I'm pulling too hard). Eventually I get a stable recirc rate and can walk away from the ball valve. Seem like you could automate this with your setup - your thoughts?

2. Are you using this flowmeter? https://www.adafruit.com/product/828. If so, the specs say it's range is 1-30 L/min. Typical sparge rate is 1qt/min, so slightly below the minimum of this range. How's the accuracy down that low?

3. RIMS Heater size: You use 120V for mashing, and 240V for sparge heating. What do you think about just wiring up the heater for 240V and limiting the duty cycle to 25% during mashing? With a short enough cycle time, it seems like that would achieve the same thing as switching voltage and save a lot of wiring/complexity.

Thanks for such a great build thread and putting up with all our constant questions!

Great questions... you don't miss much!

1. Yes, I use one FM. I don't really care about the flow into/through the boil side. Also, that sees boiling wort, and this cheap FM (along with most, contact or not) cannot handle these temps. The FM is used as a feedback loop to know the rate of the flow. Changing the open% of the proportional valve changes the actual flow rate. You are right about the manometer - I did have an alarm that would go off if the level dropped in the sight glass, and the capacitive sensors (I had) would detect it. I haven't automated the sensing/alarm of an impending stuck mash with this new setup just yet. I am actually not sure how the pressure sensor will react, but I suspect the pressure will drop drastically. You are also right that it is automated (somewhat): I have been empirically handling this by starting with a slow recirc rate following dough-in. After a few minutes (~10) the valve is slightly opened to to go faster. So maybe 6-8 q/min at first, then upward of double that. I haven't had too bad a stuck issue even with wheat beers, except for that pumpkin ale last year... UGH!But that said, I am standing there watching it loosly the whole time. A quick change of the valve value on screen fixes it, just like turning a ball valve handle, just electronic.

2. Yes. Its cheap but I have to say it has been a workhorse. No its not super accurate across the range, especially the low end. But it is *repeatable*, which is what I really care about. I calibrated it and came up with a number of pulses per quart at ~1/min rate (it's 355). Divided this gives me about 6-7 pulses per second at sparge rate. Not very much resolution, but gets the job done. Since sparge temp is not super critical, this works well. I have a loop in my script during sparging that does 4 things: 1. checks the flow rate (and increases or decreases the valve opening slightly if needed). 2. Checks the sparge water temp (and increases or decreases by adjusting the PWM rate slightly if needed). NOTE those two are interdependent so you can't adjust one without the other chasing it. 3. Checks to see if the MLT volume has increased a certain amount, and opens the valve to the BK for a few seconds if so (this is autosparge), and 4. Checks to see if the sparge volume is achieved yet, upon which a timed draining sequence is started.

3. I agree. I haven't tested this, but I think it is possible/practical. If I were building from zero I would probably do that. Power for mashing would be in the single digit range. This is run by PID, so with a fast enough flow rate should run fine. BTW (plug coming...) BruControl is so flexible you can change the PID coefficients via the script - therefore different control environments can be accommodated (like the difference between strike heating and mashing) if you want to. Can't do that with BCS!

 

[cod3ck]

This board?! https://store-usa.arduino.cc/produc...m=store.arduino.cc&utm_campaign=303_Redirects

I was originally looking at building out a PID enclosure (currently using an SSVR w/ a pot..). This setup definitely intrigues me to skip the PID [emoji482]

 

[BrunDog]

Yes that board. You can buy knock-offs for $15. Just be careful, some are really knocked off, meaning they change some of the chips like the USB chip!

 

[cod3ck]

Ok. One last question on the software (tried to ask this on that thread but now I'm locked out?) -- any plans for a Mac and/or iOS version or support for Raspberry Pi?

 

[BrunDog]

Sorry - its currently down. I will address this there when it comes back online.

 

[cod3ck]

Sorry - its currently down. I will address this there when it comes back online.

Sounds good -- thanks!

 

[augiedoggy]

Yes that board. You can buy knock-offs for $15. Just be careful, some are really knocked off, meaning they change some of the chips like the USB chip!

I got one of my Megas for $9 shipped from california.. It does use the common ch834 chip/drivers which many of the chinese arduino and usb to serial adapters use but once I installed the drivers everything works fine with brucontrol.

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

I didn't have time to read this entire thread, so not sure if anyone has touched on this yet:
1. Your 5 gallon RO containers have brass fittings - that's a no-no for contact with RO water. Suggest you use poly or SS fittings only.

2. Regarding your existing RO system - just a reminder that if you want RO water faster, you can install a higher capacity ("faster" ) membrane in your existing RO system. It will fit the same RO membrane housing you're using now.

3. If you want RO water that is more pure, don't send it to the pressure tank. Without the back pressure of the pressure tank you'll also significantly cut down on the amount of "waste water" and you'll produce RO water much faster.

4. If you change your RO membrane to a higher capacity version, don't forget you'll also need to install a new flow restrictor ($4).

Russ

 

[augiedoggy]

I wondered about the tank myself since it seems my RO system works faster when I bypass the tank and am filling buckets directly while doing a water change on my reef tank