BruControl: Brewery control & automation software

[Sammy86]

Hey just want to extend my most sincere THANK YOU to @highland_brewer for hosting me today on his live brew day!! He is the quintessential gentleman... as well as being a good multi-tasker. Most importantly, he manages surprises really well!!!

Here is the link again - check it out when you get a chance to see the UniFlex and BruControl in action:

Came and went a few times through out the brew day...was interesting learning about all the automation! Controller looked awesome!

Nice job as always @highland_brewer!

 

[helibrewer]

Hey just want to extend my most sincere THANK YOU to @highland_brewer for hosting me today on his live brew day!! He is the quintessential gentleman... as well as being a good multi-tasker. Most importantly, he manages surprises really well!!!

Here is the link again - check it out when you get a chance to see the UniFlex and BruControl in action:

You guys did a great job, it's hard keeping folks entertained for 3+ hours. Strong work @highland_brewer and @BrunDog

 

[aeviaanah]

Can anyone share a cost effective wire and gauge recommendation for 24v dc solenoid valves about 50' run. Would this be three or two wire? Shielded?

 

[BrunDog]

wire size depends on the current carrying requirements. Can you post a link to the valve, or at least provide the steady current or power?

DC solenoids only require 2 wires... no shielding needed.

 

[aeviaanah]

wire size depends on the current carrying requirements. Can you post a link to the valve, or at least provide the steady current or power?

DC solenoids only require 2 wires... no shielding needed.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DQ27IFO/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_i_YKzvFbMQSA4WV
This is what we have

On a side note I just read not to keep energized for 8hrs. How would I go about "checking" that the valve hasn't been open for x duration and allowing it to deenergize (to cool down) if it has? Via script that is

 

[BrunDog]

Can you share what you will be using them for? Solenoids use a lot of power and generate a lot of heat due to the large coil. If you are looking for good flow and don't care about actuation speed, a motorized ball valve is likely a better fit.

If not, this is easy to script.

 

[aeviaanah]

Can you share what you will be using them for? Solenoids use a lot of power and generate a lot of heat due to the large coil. If you are looking for good flow and don't care about actuation speed, a motorized ball valve is likely a better fit.

If not, this is easy to script.

I'll be using them to control glycol to dual jacket 10bbl FVs plumbed in parallel. Also got a few 7bbl FVs with single jacket.

Solenoids are already purchased and I believe these are industry standard. Only see an issue with the energized duration during a cold crash

 

[BrunDog]

Yeah... you want flow. Go with motorized ball valves. You can leave them wherever you want for infinite time and no power draw.

 

[aeviaanah]

Yeah... you want flow. Go with motorized ball valves. You can leave them wherever you want for infinite time and no power draw.

Solenoids are already purchased and I believe this is industry standard. We will probably rock these for a while since we already have them and look to ball valves as an upgrade. We can pull wire large enough for whichever has the largest amp draw.

 

[BrunDog]

The draw ~850 mA each. This is low voltage so no sill rules around conduit, etc. I would go with 22 AWG. Will easily carry the current, have some durability, and won't break the bank. Look for 2 conductor, stranded, with PVC jacket.

 

[aeviaanah]

The draw ~850 mA each. This is low voltage so no sill rules around conduit, etc. I would go with 22 AWG. Will easily carry the current, have some durability, and won't break the bank. Look for 2 conductor, stranded, with PVC jacket.

Thanks, much appreciated.

 

[oakbarn]

Thanks, much appreciated.

I would use 18 awg myself just in case I add something later that might require a higher amperage. Bigger is better for the most part (as long as not two big.) You would be fine even with 22 awg. I would definitely second going with ball valves. The Glycol does not need to be exchanged all the time. It stays cold for a while. Regardless, you could easily write a script where the valve is open for fifteen minutes on the five minutes off then fifteen minutes on the five minutes off then fifteen minutes on the five minutes off then.....

You would never exceed the 8 hour limit.

 

[aeviaanah]

I currently have (4) 50a contactors controlling (3) 12kW heat elements, all in kettle.

Contactor 1 controls Element 1 via digital out
Contactor 2 controls Element 2 (1/3 Power) via digital out
Contactor 3 controls Element 2 (2/3 Power) via hysteresis
Contactor 4 controls Element 3 via digital out

If Contactor 2 and 3 are energized I get full power to Element 2.

During ramp phase, all elements will be 100% power. When I near boil over temps (208F or so), I plan to have BC automatically shutoff Element 1 and 3 and allow manual control of Element 2. Either 4kw, 8kw or 12kw (via Element 2), 16kw (adding Element 1 or 3).

I plan to have Contactor 3 controlled via hysteresis with a set point of 213. In script, I reference a boil offset global which defines a value of 208F. So if measured value is less than 208F, all contactors are live. If 208F is achieved, all Contactors are off except for Contactor 3 since 213 cannot be achieved. At a reduced power and no chance of boil over I want the operator to take over and begin turning on elements manually to achieve desired boil. This will likely be Contactor 2 for a total of 12kW. I thought a Low/High switch would be neat for Element 2. Need to actually boil our first batch to see if manual control of Element 1 or 3 is needed.

Looking for some improvements/ideas to the above.. I'm sure most of you are using SSRS at 5kW or so. Wanted to keep heat and component pricing down. I understand how much easier this would be with them!

 

[NateBrew]

Hey all,

Here is one for the brain trust. I have been running this setup for about a year now and I keep having this persistent error in a script that I only see after everything is done. The script runs fine, and the brewing doesn't have a problem.

In the subroutine I use to control the mash temperature ramping, I always get a
"12:48:22.668 [ERROR: cannot return, call history empty]"

but I can't for the life of me figure out why. Here is the subroutine that is running.

[MashRamp]
//control the ramping of the HLT temp to run up the mash temp
if "MT_Temp" Value < "MT_Target" Value
    scriptTemp1 = "MT_Target" Value - "MT_Target_Backoff" Value 
    if "MT_Temp" Value <= scriptTemp1
        print "Chasing Temp"
        print scriptTemp2
        "HLT PID" Target = "MT_Temp" Value + "MT_Ramp_Delta" Value // chase the temp up
    else 
        "HLT PID" Target = "MT_Target" Value + "HLT_SS_OS" Value // set to steady state value
    endif
    sleep 10000
    goto "MashRamp"
endif          <--------------------Error is here-------------------
return

The thing that seems odd is that it runs fine for the whole mash and the control moves on past the end of the mash sequence and the brewing runs as expected. I don't like having errors, so I'm trying to figure out why this is happening. I figured if this error happened it would terminate (pause) the script and I would have to fix it before I could have the automation run through, but it runs fine and I just see the status of that script as "Paused" instead of Stopped after a brew day.

Any thoughts?

 

[RiverCityBrewer]

I'm guessing that the goto loop is negating the call function (assuming you are calling the MashRamp routine from somewhere else). If you aren't calling the routine from somewhere else, just comment out return and I'd bet it runs fine.

 

[NateBrew]

The goto loop should just keep it in the loop until the temperature is above the target. So on the last loop through, it should hit the goto and then start at the "if" at the top, jump to the endif and then return. This is what it does for the 6 steps of the mash profile, and I have watched it running the loop and it looks correct.

Here is the code that calls it.

//step 6
if Step6_En State == True
    StepComplete Active = False
    "Recirculate_FlowRate" Value = "Recirc Rate 6" Value
    Status Value = "Ramping to Step 6"
    "MT_Target" Value = "Step6_Temp" Value
    call "MashRamp"  //let the ramping subroutine do its thing and then return
    "HLT PID" Target = Step6_Temp Value + HLT_SS_OS Value
    Status Value = "Step 6 Rest"
    start "Step6_Time"
    wait StepComplete Active == True
    stop "Step6_Time"
    //end step 6
endif

 

[BrunDog]

I'm thinking @NateBrew is right. Try adding another section heading after [MashRamp] and point the goto to that. This will keep MashRamp tied to only the subroutine call. If that doesn't work, I'll dig into it with my partner.

 

[helibrewer]

I currently have (4) 50a contactors controlling (3) 12kW heat elements, all in kettle.

Contactor 1 controls Element 1 via digital out
Contactor 2 controls Element 2 (1/3 Power) via digital out
Contactor 3 controls Element 2 (2/3 Power) via hysteresis
Contactor 4 controls Element 3 via digital out

If Contactor 2 and 3 are energized I get full power to Element 2.

During ramp phase, all elements will be 100% power. When I near boil over temps (208F or so), I plan to have BC automatically shutoff Element 1 and 3 and allow manual control of Element 2. Either 4kw, 8kw or 12kw (via Element 2), 16kw (adding Element 1 or 3).

I plan to have Contactor 3 controlled via hysteresis with a set point of 213. In script, I reference a boil offset global which defines a value of 208F. So if measured value is less than 208F, all contactors are live. If 208F is achieved, all Contactors are off except for Contactor 3 since 213 cannot be achieved. At a reduced power and no chance of boil over I want the operator to take over and begin turning on elements manually to achieve desired boil. This will likely be Contactor 2 for a total of 12kW. I thought a Low/High switch would be neat for Element 2. Need to actually boil our first batch to see if manual control of Element 1 or 3 is needed.

Looking for some improvements/ideas to the above.. I'm sure most of you are using SSRS at 5kW or so. Wanted to keep heat and component pricing down. I understand how much easier this would be with them!


View attachment 697295

So do you actually have (3) 4kW elements which can sum to 12kW? 12kW at 240V takes your current draw to 50A, doesn't leave much of a safety margin.

 

[aeviaanah]

So do you actually have (3) 4kW elements which can sum to 12kW? 12kW at 240V takes your current draw to 50A, doesn't leave much of a safety margin.

The elements are 12kw a piece at 208 3 phase. We will wire delta and run 2 phases through one contactors and the third phase through another. So we can get 4kw, 8kw or 12kw from the one elements. The other two elements are wired delta three phase through a single contactor so full blown on those

 

[aeviaanah]

Things seem to be much better using the power jack on Mega. Time to hook everything back up.

 

[BrunDog]

I currently have (4) 50a contactors controlling (3) 12kW heat elements, all in kettle.

Contactor 1 controls Element 1 via digital out
Contactor 2 controls Element 2 (1/3 Power) via digital out
Contactor 3 controls Element 2 (2/3 Power) via hysteresis
Contactor 4 controls Element 3 via digital out

If Contactor 2 and 3 are energized I get full power to Element 2.

During ramp phase, all elements will be 100% power. When I near boil over temps (208F or so), I plan to have BC automatically shutoff Element 1 and 3 and allow manual control of Element 2. Either 4kw, 8kw or 12kw (via Element 2), 16kw (adding Element 1 or 3).

I plan to have Contactor 3 controlled via hysteresis with a set point of 213. In script, I reference a boil offset global which defines a value of 208F. So if measured value is less than 208F, all contactors are live. If 208F is achieved, all Contactors are off except for Contactor 3 since 213 cannot be achieved. At a reduced power and no chance of boil over I want the operator to take over and begin turning on elements manually to achieve desired boil. This will likely be Contactor 2 for a total of 12kW. I thought a Low/High switch would be neat for Element 2. Need to actually boil our first batch to see if manual control of Element 1 or 3 is needed.

Looking for some improvements/ideas to the above.. I'm sure most of you are using SSRS at 5kW or so. Wanted to keep heat and component pricing down. I understand how much easier this would be with them!


View attachment 697295

I think you are going to have to try this to see what works and what doesn't. Without SSRs handling rapid switching, you are indeed relying on the combination of elements to get the boils you want. I would also suggest you play with a certain degree of kettle lid closure - that will drive a great degree of boil intensity for a given power level. Kettle insulation too, I s'pose.

 

[aeviaanah]

I think you are going to have to try this to see what works and what doesn't. Without SSRs handling rapid switching, you are indeed relying on the combination of elements to get the boils you want. I would also suggest you play with a certain degree of kettle lid closure - that will drive a great degree of boil intensity for a given power level. Kettle insulation too, I s'pose.

Will do. Does my proposed setup with BC seem like a good start?

 

[BrunDog]

I would prefer you had SSR's so that you could have a finer degree of control. Ambient temp and pressure changes, volume differences, wort SG's will all affect the boil - and you may end up in a situation where you have a lion or a lamb of a boil, but nothing in between. Hysteresis will never trigger off at a 213 temp (assuming your probes are accurate)... so I'm not sure how this will work. Boiling is a straight up power game that is not dependent on temperature - the amount of power put in determines the amount of volume's phase change aka boil amount.

 

[aeviaanah]

I would prefer you had SSR's so that you could have a finer degree of control. Ambient temp and pressure changes, volume differences, wort SG's will all affect the boil - and you may end up in a situation where you have a lion or a lamb of a boil, but nothing in between. Hysteresis will never trigger off at a 213 temp (assuming your probes are accurate)... so I'm not sure how this will work. Boiling is a straight up power game that is not dependent on temperature - the amount of power put in determines the amount of volume's phase change aka boil amount.

I was hoping the element split by 4, 8 and 12 kw was enough to determine the lion and the lamb. Know of any cost effective 50a 3phase SSRs?

 

[BrunDog]

Not sure what qualifies as cost effective for you, but this ain't too shabby IMO at a about a C note: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/industrialemart/SR2-1250/2371-SR2-1250-ND/13148029

Edit: Here is one for $60... caveat emptor: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01JI40VUM/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_uuewFbHKXKGMM
Or another with heatsink and fan: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0746FRKNR/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_RvewFb7CJYBW4

 

[BrunDog]

How y'all feel about some merch? Here is a shirt we had made for fun...

 

[aeviaanah]

Not sure what qualifies as cost effective for you, but this ain't too shabby IMO at a about a C note: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/industrialemart/SR2-1250/2371-SR2-1250-ND/13148029

Edit: Here is one for $60... caveat emptor: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01JI40VUM/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_uuewFbHKXKGMM
Or another with heatsink and fan: Robot Check

Those aren't too bad. Maybe I'll run contactors up to 208F then have one or two elements on SSR.

Put me down for a Large Short Sleeve. Love the saying.

 

[oakbarn]

I am still in the planning phase of my replacement brewery. I do have some electric kettles but my two brew kettles will be propane or natural gas because that it what I prefer.

If I resort to low pressure and use furnace valves, how do you integrate with BruControl.
Something like this:


https://www.amazon.com/Rodgers-36H6...07M85SY16/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
I know some like not having gas, but I like gas for a brewery.

 

[BrunDog]

I think you should go electric unless you need to brew really big volumes and/or don't have access to the 240VAC power required. Ok, said my peace and I hear you want gas...

I assume that valve uses a power input of some sort (I didn't investigate wiring). So how you control it depends on the voltage required. If AC, you could use an SSR or electromechanical relay. If DC you can use a MOSFET / UniShield output, or an electromechanical relay. Either way you will need the power supply which lines up with the requirement for the valve. Once you have it, you can use Hysteresis, Deadband, or a script to control it. I'm not sure how you control the heat for the boil. If the valve's output can be lowered electronically, then good. If not, you will have to dial it down manually, or use a pair of valves (both on for full power, only one on for boil).

 

[aeviaanah]

If your gonna do a run of shirts try ooshirts.com. really cheap unit cost