Trying to find where to add a Tilt device. I have a ESP32 interface but I cannot see where in the Interface Map which port to use for a Tilt.
BruControl: Brewery control & automation software
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OP
OP
Ports 220+. Not on the IWM because there is nothing to wire.
We need to document this in the manual.
We need to document this in the manual.
I am having an issue load 45c onto the esp32 it is timing out. It sees it as Com 3 but then cannot connect.
RiverCityBrewer
Well-Known Member
Did you disconnect it from BruControl first?
Yeah. I even tried on a totally different computer that does not have BruControl installed. I tried two computers, two different USBs. I think it may be the cheap COCO ESP 32 from China. I have order a pair of ESP 32s off Amazon.
RiverCityBrewer
Well-Known Member
Sorry, should have been more specific. If the unit has been setup and connected in BC, you need to disable the interface in BC first, then try and update.
OP
OP
Some models need GPIO grounded in order to take an upload.
On my ESP32 I had to hit the flash button before it would take it. I think my 8266 was the same way. It would time out every time I tried it, but if I hit the flash button it would load right up.
For reference, these are the two I'm using in my setup (keg fridge and ferment fridge):
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Q576VWZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
For reference, these are the two I'm using in my setup (keg fridge and ferment fridge):
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Q576VWZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
OP
OP
I just tried the current FW off the website with an ESP32 Development board - uploaded as expected. Try the flash button technique.
I grounded and used the Flash button: Both produced:
Success finally. Removed the Ground from the pin then tried just the Flash boot. Loaded right up. Amazon dropped the two new ones so I will play with them as well.
New ones from Amazon loaded right up without the Flash Button method or the Grounding.
ESP 32 x 2 https://www.amazon.com/MELIFE-Development-Dual-Mode-Microcontroller-Integrated/dp/B07Q576VWZ
If hooking up as Wifi, do a network configuration on the ESP 32 similar to the Mega 2560?
I see that the signal from the Tilt is sending an uncalibrated value. I calibrated using the Tilt App and corrected 1.003 to 1.000. BruControl gets 1.003 (the unclaibrated value)
ESP 32 x 2 https://www.amazon.com/MELIFE-Development-Dual-Mode-Microcontroller-Integrated/dp/B07Q576VWZ
If hooking up as Wifi, do a network configuration on the ESP 32 similar to the Mega 2560?
I see that the signal from the Tilt is sending an uncalibrated value. I calibrated using the Tilt App and corrected 1.003 to 1.000. BruControl gets 1.003 (the unclaibrated value)
Yeah, same thing. You'll have to supply the SSID (and password if applicable). You don't give it a MAC address because it is hard coded. I do all mine with DHCP and then define each MAC in the DHCP entry table on the router.
RiverCityBrewer
Well-Known Member
Calibrations from the tilt app apply to the phone or tablet only, they do not get pushed back to the tilt itself. Create a lookup table in the BC calibration for the tilt and add your measurements there.
That was what I was thinking. Do a Calibration with the Tilt 2 app as described, but make the un-calibrated values x side and the calibrated as the y column. Kill two birds with one stone.
I got it connected but with issues. My DHCP server is in my house. I have a wired wifi repeater that has a different name in my barn where the brewery is with its own SSID and Password. It did not see it there. I redid the SSID to the DHCP Router and Password and moved the ESP to the house. Showed up and connected right away. I am going to move it back out to the barn and see if it stays connected. If it does not, I will try using the MAC address that it has and DHCP to No and use the same DHCP IP Address that was assigned.
As a side, any idea how far the Tilt will Bluetooth in a steel conical if at all?
As a side, any idea how far the Tilt will Bluetooth in a steel conical if at all?
Huh, oddness with the DHCP. Do you know if it actually was connected to the WiFi at all and didn't get an address or was it just not doing anything.
For some reason that I don't understand, I had to setup the network on a couple of my devices (8266/esp32) twice. The same information, I just put it in a second time and then it worked. This happened on more than one microcontroller.
For some reason that I don't understand, I had to setup the network on a couple of my devices (8266/esp32) twice. The same information, I just put it in a second time and then it worked. This happened on more than one microcontroller.
OP
OP
I don’t think you would use the app at all. Use the tilt and see what it reports, then measure with a legit hydrometer. X is TILT and Y is the hydrometer. Repeat for increasing sugar solutions, or at least do distilled water on one end and very sugary water on the other end (1.1 SG).
OP
OP
Interesting. I haven’t experienced this but an n of 1 means nothing in the world of Wi-Fi. Anyone else seen this?
Angus Grant
Well-Known Member
Not sure if you have double-walled conical, but one of my clients had 200L double-wall stainless fermenters. I had to have my phone or Raspberry Pi right next to the lid seal to get a faint connection. So in my situation, connection was a few cm's
I ended up disabling the Raspberry Pi on-board bluetooth module and getting a USB bluetooth dongle with a high-powered antenna and this greatly improved the reliability of connection. This then allowed about 3 metres to the relevant fermenter.
I am yet to get my Tilt back from my client, to test out with the ESP32, but I figure it would be the same deal where a larger high powered antenna may be required.
USB Bluetooth module
high gain antenna
I am testing the distance. I will have two issues. How close can I get the ESP 32 to the fermenter (double walled) and still be connected to the Wifi. I may have to order another Wifi repeater and add it to my Cold Room where the fermenters are. I ordered their repeater to see how that works. Right now, just with a plastic jug between the Tilt and the ESP32, the distance is poor. May be a weak battery on the Tilt. I have a difficult time getting it to work in my barn brewery but finally did a copy and paste with the SSID and Password from my Amped wireless repeater and now it works. I went back and did not allow DHCP but reserved the IP that DHCP had assigned on my router. It would be nice if Tilt made a repeater antenna that was 1 1/2 TC Thermowell that could take an External Probe as well. Power supply on the outside of the fermenter for the repeater.
The reason I would use the Tilt APP is to have BOTH the Tilt App and Brucontrol giving the same corrected readings. There are very good instructions on how to Calibrate with the Tilt App. If you just write down you data points (or better yet put in a csv file), both the Tilt App and BruControl will give the same Data Points.
VinceBrews
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If you figure out how to do this with ESP32 please report back. I ferment in kegs and the signal is very weak... With the ESP32 sitting on top of the keg it generally works but it's finicky... I get signal drops. I'd love to be able to get a more reliable signal but I don't know how to do this.
Angus Grant
Well-Known Member
My complete guess is the combination of stronger usb module plus high gain antenna does the trick.
The esp32 may be limited by the on-board Bluetooth module.
Complete guess though.
The esp32 may be limited by the on-board Bluetooth module.
Complete guess though.
RiverCityBrewer
Well-Known Member
The PCB antennas for both the Tilt and on the ESP32 look to be standard 1/6 wavelength embedded design... they work but are not optimal, especially when one is heavily shielded in a metal fermenter. Since we can't modify the antenna on the Tilt, we can look at two options, repeaters and improved antenna design on the ESP32. Tilt looks like they offer a repeater as a package that you could set right next to your fermenter, but it may suffer from the same embedded antenna issues. I may pick one up and see how it works. The other option is finding an ESP32 with an external antenna connector, or cutting the trace to the embedded one and direct soldering a 1/4 or 1/2 wave antenna to the board. I have a few sacrificial 32's, so I may try soldering one... it doesn't look very easy though. If anyone knows of an ESP32 with an external antenna connector, I'm all ears.
I ordered a repeater. I have a 30 Gal Glycol Jacketed Brewer's Hardware fermentor, I will play with it when I get the repeater. I have found the range of the Tilt less than the 25 feet. I am sure a fresh battery might help. They claim the repeater is exactly for a steel vessel. Would be nice if the repeater was a 1 1/2" TC Thermowell where the pick up was inside and the antenna external. That way, you could have the regular probe in the Thermowell and the repeater in one TC.
RiverCityBrewer
Well-Known Member
Replacing one of the TC caps with one of the polycarbonate ones should help the signal immensely, and you may already have that if you are getting 25' of signal. I get inches of signal through my conical and keg fermenters.
OP
OP
OK, to each his own. Seems like extra work to enter the calibration into the app if you aren't using it.
OP
OP
espressif does make modules with an external antenna option. I assume both BT and Wi-Fi are ported through it. Unfortunately these are not readily available. Look for ESP32 WROVER and/or ESP32 IPEX. I have one but the source seems to have dried up.
Edit: You will notice the WROVER module has solder pads or an external antenna - it just seems these aren't populated on many boards.
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The last startup I worked for used the same battery in all of our wireless products that the tilt uses. I was in charge of battery life characterization and battery life testing for all our products. I did accelerated life testing on over 1000 of these batteries.
A fresh battery won't make a difference. The CR123A batteries put out ~3V for 95% of their life and then quickly drop off. In reality the voltage starts around 2.8V for the first 10-20% of its life and then increases to 3V.
Additionally the wireless range is not dependent on battery voltage. When the battery does start to get to the end of its life the current draw from the radio transmission will cause the battery voltage to droop causing a brownout condition where no radio transmission will occur.
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Here is a look at the WROVER module version with IPEX antenna. I would need to run some tests to report range and signal strength differences, but I’m under a strong assumption it will be better. Problem is sourcing these seems difficult right now.
Edit: Cant seem to attach pic right now.
Edit: Cant seem to attach pic right now.
OP
OP
Trying again:
This board has connector for external antenna. I've tested it with BC and the Tilt and it works perfect. Have not done any range testing yet but I assume it to have a significant increase.
Speaking about the TC thermowell antenna, what about drilling a hole in a TC cap and glue a white labs yeast vial or similar to it from the inside. The flange on the yeast vial will make a good sealing surface against the TC cap. Not sure if it will break the faraday cage but if you stick the external antenna into the vial then for sure it will receive the Tilt signal.
Speaking about the TC thermowell antenna, what about drilling a hole in a TC cap and glue a white labs yeast vial or similar to it from the inside. The flange on the yeast vial will make a good sealing surface against the TC cap. Not sure if it will break the faraday cage but if you stick the external antenna into the vial then for sure it will receive the Tilt signal.
RiverCityBrewer
Well-Known Member
The onboard antenna on that board looks leaps and bounds better than a pcb trace on 90+% of them.
OP
OP
Just messed around with the M5Stack (https://m5stack.com/)... This thing is a really cool option, especially given some of its expansion options. BruControl firmware works straight away. We'll add the display next.
Here is a video (look ma... no wires because of my battery):
Here is a video (look ma... no wires because of my battery):
RiverCityBrewer
Well-Known Member
Very cool, the mini screen and speaker functionality would come in handy if it happened to make it's way into BC.
OP
OP
Yessir... basic screen text and sounds will be added. Can't go crazy with screen graphics - will impact performance. But I could see this get easily integrated. I wish they had a "relay stack"
You are right. I tested wifi signal strength against the Espressif dev board just using the onboard antennas. The Espressif dev board got -61 dBm and the TTGO got -42 dBm at the exact same location. Thats heaps of difference I reckon that difference will apply to bluetooth as well.
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I needed to make two starters for this weekend. I needed about 4.5 L of starter. I decided to do up some know solutions of DME and calibrate the Tilt.
I made up 500 ml each of:
1.010
1.020
1.050
1.061
1.110
In Tap water it self tared at 1.000. Then I tested with each solution. Only the 1.110 was off. It was 1.111. No need for a table or calibration.
Lessons learned: 1 Litre samples would be better. It was hard finding a vessel that was deep and wide enough for only 500 ML. In fact, I had to use a totally different vessel for the last solution as it was more horizontal and bumped the sides of my container. Was easy to do when you are making a starter anyway. I will likely do it again on the new brew and also create a cheat sheet for my regular glass hydrometers. I am sure they might need some corrections. The Tilt was spot on.
I made up 500 ml each of:
1.010
1.020
1.050
1.061
1.110
In Tap water it self tared at 1.000. Then I tested with each solution. Only the 1.110 was off. It was 1.111. No need for a table or calibration.
Lessons learned: 1 Litre samples would be better. It was hard finding a vessel that was deep and wide enough for only 500 ML. In fact, I had to use a totally different vessel for the last solution as it was more horizontal and bumped the sides of my container. Was easy to do when you are making a starter anyway. I will likely do it again on the new brew and also create a cheat sheet for my regular glass hydrometers. I am sure they might need some corrections. The Tilt was spot on.
RiverCityBrewer
Well-Known Member
Its not uncommon for my tilt to be reading a few points low at the end of fermentation due to krausen and yeast clinging to the tilt itself. Just don't be surprised when its off a few points even though its calibrated.
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