Brother gave me some "advice"... Thoughts?

[saeroner]

My older Brother gave me some pointers over the phone before I started my 2nd ever brew last night. I trust him as he's been brewing some great beers for about 3 years -- mostly IPA

But i was wondering what y'alls thought on this would be?

*He never takes a reading (ever) "who really cares if the ABV is 1 or 2% higher or lower"... I lol at this one as I really don't care myself as long as it has good flavor -- but I see the importance if you're trying to make a good consistent beer

*He said I waited too long (2 weeks) to transfer to the carboy from the primary. He says as soon as you see the bubbles slow down to about 30 seconds apart, transfer it. This way the fermentation in the secondary carboy (CO2) pushes all the dead air out so there is no risk of off flavors....

*Only time he adds dry hops is during the wort cool down stage (in a bag) and squeezes it all out when cooled down.

Any thoughts?

 

[Rockn_M]

The readings aren't just so you can determine the ABV. It's also how you know when fermentation is done. You can't trust bubbles because the gas could be escaping someplace else. Also when I dry hop I wait until fermentation is almost done then add the hops\fruit\etc to a bag and carefully drop them in for a few days.

 

[duboman]

My thoughts are that while your brother may brew good beer his advice is not what I would recommend

Get in the habit of taking hydrometer readings. It's the only way you know what fermentation is doing and it's important to verify a stable FG and not simply assume its done

If you choose to use a secondary clearing vessel the beer should not be racked over until final gravity is verified to prevent stuck fermentations or poor attenuation

Dry hopping is done after the beer is reached final gravity and prior to packaging. He might be referencing flame out additions?

 

[ResumeMan]

1. Well it's up to you. I suppose it doesn't matter that much, but I like to know what my original and final gravities are. Especially final, so you can know if it's done. I would certainly recommend it but it's not wrong to skip it.

2. If you do it his way the primary fermentation isn't done yet. It's entirely possible it will finish in the secondary, but it's also possible that it will stall out without enough yeast. Plus, as has been stated many times before, it's beneficial to leave the beer on the yeast awhile to let it "clean up" the beer. And if you put it into a secondary that doesn't have too much air space then you won't have to worry about air in the headspace. Finally, it really isn't necessary to do a secondary at all. You can if you want, but many other don't bother. You could just go ahead and leave it in primary for 3 - 5 weeks, then package.

3. That isn't dry hopping, it's late hopping/whirlpool hopping. It's an excellent time to add hops for lots of flavor and aroma, but it isn't dry hopping. Dry hopping is adding hops during or after fermentation. Mostly adds aroma.

So those are my thoughts.

 

[GotPushrods]

My older Brother gave me some pointers over the phone before I started my 2nd ever brew last night. I trust him as he's been brewing some great beers for about 3 years -- mostly IPA

But i was wondering what y'alls thought on this would be?

*He never takes a reading (ever) "who really cares if the ABV is 1 or 2% higher or lower"... I lol at this one as I really don't care myself as long as it has good flavor -- but I see the importance if you're trying to make a good consistent beer

It's important for a lot of reason, other than calculating ABV. You can certainly be more consistent. But it can also point to something being wrong. Maybe your crush is getting more coarse due to the mill loosening up and widening. Maybe a new recipe is bigger/smaller than what you're used to. Taking a pre-boil gravity lets you determine how long to boil if you are significantly off from the recipe. You will know for sure when fermentation is done so you don't end up with bottle bombs. You'll also know before visible signs of infection that you might have a problem if the gravity goes too low. This could also indicate your thermometers are out of calibration if you start having gravity issues. Oops, I was mashing at 145 instead of 152. Good thing I caught it! That's just the short list. This might be a personality thing, but I measure everything.

*He said I waited too long (2 weeks) to transfer to the carboy from the primary. He says as soon as you see the bubbles slow down to about 30 seconds apart, transfer it. This way the fermentation in the secondary carboy (CO2) pushes all the dead air out so there is no risk of off flavors....

This is literally the opposite of the current knowledge on the subject. Secondary is all but extinct for most people. It's good for aging big beers on oak, adding fruit, a true secondary fermentation when you add something like honey, and of course for selling fermenters to beginners who just read the instructions and think they need to transfer the beer. Just leave it in primary for 2-4 weeks and package as normal. You should make sure it's done by, (see above) taking a gravity reading until you get 3 unchanged in a row. Bottling before it's completely done is a good way to decorate your house with shards of glass. I have no idea what "dead air" is. There is a higher risk of "off flavors" from every time you transfer since you are susceptible to infection and oxidation. The less racking the better.

*Only time he adds dry hops is during the wort cool down stage (in a bag) and squeezes it all out when cooled down.
Any thoughts?

I have no idea what the "cool down" stage is. Is he referring to chilling after the boil? That would be aroma addition, but not technically dry hopping. Dry hopping is adding hops after fermentation.

I dry hop right in primary when I'm not planning on re-using the yeast. 4-5 days at fermentation temperature. I certainly would not personally squeeze the bag as the splashing is introducing oxygen into the beer, which is a no-no anytime after fermentation has started.

 

[Battles4Seattle]

I didn't take reading for years but you really should. It will prevent bottle bombs and you'll know when it's done.

As for transferring, a couple thoughts. When transferring you can cause oxidation, you also can transfer it too soon and make your beer fermentation stall. You waiting 2 weeks is fine. Whether you want to use a secondary is up to you. I use it rarely personally.

What your brother is doing isn't dry hopping. It is more of a hop stand or whirlpool. Dry hopping is best to do near the end of fermentation or after it is done. Lots of opinions on when and how long to dry hop. I just throw in leaf hops 4 to 5 days before bottling.

 

[Battles4Seattle]

Haha we all wrote you novels. Enjoy

 

[saeroner]

^ thanks all.

Yes your replies are mostly my thoughts exactly and how I learned via this site and YouTube.

This was the 1st time i talked to him about it so i was a bit surprised as to what he stated.

 

[LandoLincoln]

^ thanks all.

Yes your replies are mostly my thoughts exactly and how I learned via this site and YouTube.

This was the 1st time i talked to him about it so i was a bit surprised as to what he stated.

There's two types of homebrewers out there:
Those who regularly learn stuff on HBT and those who are woefully uninformed.

 

[Battles4Seattle]

I see people post the 3 days in a row thing a lot. I personally do 2 over a 3 day period and waste less beer if that makes sense.

 

[Doctor_M]

Sounds like hes following old practices still and needs a refresher course himself.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

OK, I can admit I am somewhat in the "rarely bother with Hydrometer readings" camp BUT I did not get there until I was pretty secure in my processes...say brew 20-25. I am dong it again because of a new all grain set-up mainly to check my efficiency with each change.

I only bother with a secondary if I am doing a high OG beer. Lots of threads on here but outside of some initial clarity in the bottle, a lot of folks think it is more a risk than a benefit.

As mentioned by everyone else, the flame-out/late-additiona hops are great for aroma but are not dry hopping. The advice he gave was common when everyone was seriously concerned about unboiled hop additions causing infections...I think time has prove this a very unlikely issue.

 

[saeroner]

thanks. I wasn't sure at 1st what you guys meant by "beer bombs" but after i thought about it, make sense lol. Have people been hurt by beer bombs? That would be messed up

 

[m_stodd]

My advice: Don't take any of his unless he can give you reasons why.

Not caring isn't a reason to not take readings. Taking readings validates your process, and allows you to follow recipes. If you follow a recipe and your OG ends up different than what's stated in the recipe, it's not just the ABV that will be different, it's bitterness, sweetness, it will not be the same beer that the author brewed.

Don't even use a secondary unless your doing something like putting fruit in it or something. Lets take beer from this container, and put it in this container. Why?

The hops thing doesn't make sense. Just looks up recipes and follow them. If it says to add X amount of Y hops at 60 minutes, do that. If it says to add hops 7 days before bottling, do that.

 

[Larso]

thanks. I wasn't sure at 1st what you guys meant by "beer bombs" but after i thought about it, make sense lol. Have people been hurt by beer bombs? That would be messed up

I read a comment on here before by some guy who claimed to have lost an eye to a bottle bomb

 

[unionrdr]

I agree with y'all. I've done enough preaching on here that most of you know better. Let alone from the old timers who know more than me. Take OG & FG readings at least. You'll want to be as consistent with brewing recipes as possible. These readings can help with that. and def take one FG reading,then wait two days. On the third day,take another reading. If they match,it's done. If it's not clear already,give it another 3-7 days to settle out clear or slightly misty. It also cleans up by products of fermentation during this same time. Bottle conditioning at room temp for 3-4 weeks can also allow some cleaning up. This is part of conditioning,not mearly carbonating. at least a week fridge time for average ales gives time for chill haze to form & settle out. A week also gives good carbonation & head.

 

[dgr]

I see people post the 3 days in a row thing a lot. I personally do 2 over a 3 day period and waste less beer if that makes sense.

Who doesn't drink their samples?

 

[AnOldUR]

There's two types of homebrewers out there:
Those who regularly learn stuff on HBT and those who are woefully uninformed.

There's two types of homebrewers on here:
Those who blindly repeat stuff on HBT and those who are woeful of information presented by lemmings.

Fixed it fer ya . . .

 

[E_Marquez]

Fixed it fer ya . . .

Which are you


(BTW I get your point, though not truly accurate.. there are many here that post from real personal experience.. I think you likely know that, but left it out for a better sarcastic response)

I get something from most every post I read here.. Something to use, something to ignore, something to look into and learn more on.

 

[chumprock]

I bet he still enjoys the beer he makes.

When I was first getting back into this hobby 6 years ago, I did a lot of reading. I was taking an extreme scientific approach to my brewing, taking readings of all the runnings, pre-boil, etc. Then I visited a friend on brewday who has many more years experience than me. I watched his process throughout brewday and constantly assaulted him with technical questions. His usual reply was "I dont care about that" or "I dont know, but it works for me". Heck, he didn't even know what the word Vorlauf meant! (Though he did vorlauf, he just never heard of the term)

That led me to realize you can be as exacting and scientific with this hobby as you want, or you can "wing-it" and you'll still make beer. Of course, the more measuring/control you give, the more exact your recipe will supposedly be, but you can still approximate and end up with something to drink.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

I bet he still enjoys the beer he makes.

That led me to realize you can be as exacting and scientific with this hobby as you want, or you can "wing-it" and you'll still make beer. Of course, the more measuring/control you give, the more exact your recipe will supposedly be, but you can still approximate and end up with something to drink.

I am most of the way to your friend's position but I do know the terminology. I do not weigh my grain to the ounce...my plastic Octoberfest pitcher holds 2# to the brim...more or less. I do weigh the 5 gallon buckets of grain after milling to make sure I have the right amount of strike water.

I do not shoot for styles...I using ingredients I like in combinations I think will taste good. I usually start with a clone recipe and build to suit.

I do not get hung up on the exact right yeast...I have three favorites and I use them for about everything (S04, US05 and Whitbread).

I buy hops by the pound and tend to only keep three in stock. I use them for everything.

I put Munich malt as 30% of my grain bill in an APA type beer because I like the subtle sweetness.

I add at least a pound of carapils to every 10 galon batch because I like the body.

In the end there are only about three things I am anal about...sanitation, pitching large starters and making what I like to drink.

 

[DoWBrewer]

I read a comment on here before by some guy who claimed to have lost an eye to a bottle bomb

Bottles bombs are more likely to just piss-off your wife and end your brewing than hurt someone. I had a friend who thought it was good idea to ferment in the same closet as his wife's wedding dress. You can guess what happened next.

 

[uatuba]

Bottles bombs are more likely to just piss-off your wife and end your brewing than hurt someone. I had a friend who thought it was good idea to ferment in the same closet as his wife's wedding dress. You can guess what happened next.

They can be pretty dangerous.

 

[dgr]

Bottles bombs are more likely to just piss-off your wife and you should just keep brewing

Fixed it for you

. I had a friend who thought it was good idea to ferment in the same closet as his wife's wedding dress. You can guess what happened next.

He told her if she wasn't going to lose enough weight to fit back in it she couldn't complain about it and no way, no how could she wear white at her next wedding after the freaky stuff they did?

 

[eltorrente]

Well, I'll just reiterate what many are already saying.

First of all - your brother no doubt makes good beer, however his advice really isn't the best.

You should take hydrometer readings, just to ensure that your process is working as intended and predicted. If your FG was predicted to be 1.010, and it finished at 1.022 - well then you need to figure out why and make sure you do better next time. If you were expecting an OG of 1.056, but it was only 1.044 - then what happened there? It will probably taste good anyway, but there is something affecting your efficiency.

Never transfer into a secondary. Just don't. It's not worth the trouble or the inevitable introduction of oxygen into your beer. Just let it sit in the primary until you are ready to keg or bottle. It won't affect the flavor at all. If your brother believes that it affects the flavor, it's because he heard that and rigidly stuck to it. It's simply not true. Whether it's for a few weeks or a few months, it doesn't matter. Maybe if you are going to lager it for a year or something, then go ahead - but really it's just not needed.

The later you add the hops, the more flavor you will get - so your brother is correct about that. I don't boil my flavor hops for more than 1 or 2 minutes usually, and even then - most of my flavor hop additions are after the boil when the steam has died down, which is around 180degs or so. If I'm doing a big crazy IPA with a ton of hops, then I'll add them at 5, 2, 1, then several ounces after the boil is done. If I'm only using a couple ounces of flavor hops - they all go in after the boil.

Also - a bit of unsolicited advice - don't get addicted to following recipes. Learn to formulate your own, and keep them simple at first. For most beers, you don't need to use many different grains. It's best to start with fairly simple beers - like Pale Ales, for learning. 8-9lbs of base malt, and 1/2lb of crystal 60 or something. The reason is that you want to learn what the various malts taste like. If you always brew with several types of grains, you won't know what each of them is doing, so you need to experiment to learn.