Broke up with my LHBS today

[BucksPA]

Bad customer service = Loss of business - Plain and simple

Couldn't agree more. I don't care if the hops are $1.75/ounce @ 10 ounces. It's convenience and I'll pay for convenience, but as mentioned earlier, I'll take my business elsewhere when I choose to, and I just chose to.

 

[drew1d]

I'm sure he thought he was doing the right thing. But in a retail business, unless something was specifically ordered for a customer, it's usually first come first serve.

I wouldn't "not" buy from them out of spite, say you needed something in a hurry, but perhaps plan on a different vendor for recipe supplies. And if they ask, explain that rationing quantities prevents you from making the beer you want and now you typically buy from places that don't have that policy.

Good luck.

 

[Homercidal]

It's all the Craft Breweries' fault! They are the ones using up so much of the centennial hop harvest and other hops! We need to stop buying craft beer and go back to buying Bud light. Then we wouldn't be in this predicament!

 

[BucksPA]

hahaha. then consumers would throw a hissy fit at the rising prices of corn a rice. It's cyclical

 

[jfr1111]

I used to work at a souvenir shop when I was in my teens and the owner ran her shop just like that. Most nights I would sell about 3-4$ of stock. Yeah, 4$.

Then one night I get three couples from France and they start to buy. And buy. And buy. I think they bought 2000$ worth of goods. I called my boss to tell her how fantastic I did and she just yelled at me because selling so much stuff would make the shop look empty.

Not a lot to do with your story, but it reminded me of how insane she was.

 

[Dr. Francois]

Reminds me of Futurama:


Gilman: I wanna buy this franchise. How does $100,000 sound?

Blek: Forget it! We come to Earth to make pizza, not money.

Cygnoid Woman: No, Blek! Other way around!

Blek: Oh, right. Offer accepted!

 

[Misfit]

you should check out the guy at the quaker town farmers market.

 

[TheMan]

Steelers77 said it right in my mind. The employee should have asked if you could substitute another high alpha bittering hop vs. just telling you no on the centennial.

In the end, the guy should realize that 2 oz. was not going to break their 4+ lb stock of Centennial. Especially in favor of "potential vs. current customers." He should be scolded for lack of common sense.

I am sure the owner would like to know about this experience so that he can educate his employee for next time.

I don't understand the idea of rationing your stock though. I have gone into stores, LHBS included and they have been out of stock on what I needed. I simply chuckle, utter a choice swear word, and deal with it. It's a fact of life, stores will run out of stock once in a while. If you aren't waiting till the last minute then you will have time to work around it.

 

[Hugh_Jass]

Ever order from Hops Direct? They'll be limiting the quantities this year, too.

Due to a very cold wet spring this year our harvest has been a bit lighter yield than usual.... with this we now have to limit quantities ordered. No we do not like to limit our quantities; we just want all our homebrewers to enjoy some "Hoppy" brewing!!

http://www.hopsdirect.com/

 

[jfowler1]

I have had a similar experience in this shop, and I think I can shine some more light on the situation.

At one time, I thought buying sacks of grain was a good idea. So one Saturday, I decided to call the LHBS in question and made sure they have sacks of 2-row in stock. I call, and "Yes, we have 2-row in sacks".

So I drive about 30 minutes into Freehold, and after waiting behind a line of 5 people for no less than 10 minutes as they all picked out custom bottle labels, I was asked if I needed help.

-"I called earlier, I am here to pick up a sack of 2-row."
-"I am not sure if we can give it to you."
-"[pause] I called about an hour ago...you said you have it."
-"Yeah, but I need to check if we can sell it to you." [finds owner, asks her it is okay, and they agree to sell it to me]

So as I am paying, I ask what the deal was with that and they basically tell me the same thing. "If we were to sell everyone a sack, then we are out of 2-row." So I said thanks, went on my way, and never shopped there again.

I wasn't offended or anything, I just realized that this store is not equipped for my needs. Anyone else familar with the store should have noted that they are primarily a BOP, and actually do a really nice job of it. I actually had my first brewing experience there several years back. Sadly, the BOP eats up a lot of labor, so as I referred to when I mentioned standing in line, the AG brewer who knows what he needs, and does not need the customer service beyond ringing up an order - kind of takes a back seat to the customers who are paying upwards of $200 to brew/make wine there for an afternoon.

You are not wrong to stop shopping there. But, I think if you are at the point where your only concern is getting your equipment and ingredients in hand, then you will be doing yourself a service to start using some of the well regarded online vendors - cheaper, more convenient, and they deliver to your door. I like the idea of talking shop at the LHBS as much as the next guy, but you will be amazed how little you miss it as soon as that e-mail comes through with your tracking number.

 

[Pappers_]

Ever order from Hops Direct? They'll be limiting the quantities this year, too.



http://www.hopsdirect.com/

I use organic hops and have run into a couple of instances this autumn of farmers who said their harvests were down this year - one was completely out of Cascade already.

 

[CreamyGoodness]

I think the obvious answer to this problem is to fly to Slovenia and check out our Slovenian friend's hops farm. Sheesh... when the noobs have to give the advice...

 

[SwampassJ]

Ever order from Hops Direct? They'll be limiting the quantities this year, too.



http://www.hopsdirect.com/

Are they telling you that before or after the order is placed?

 

[LVBen]

Ever order from Hops Direct? They'll be limiting the quantities this year, too.

Yeah, but I wonder what the limits will be. In the past, they've sold in bulks of 1lb, 5lbs, 11lbs, and 44lbs. I typically don't order more than a few varieties of 1lb bags. It probably won't be a problem for most of us.

 

[Bobby_M]

I guess I'm a crappy businessman. If I have stock and someone wants to buy it at the price I've set, I sell the stock. This isn't a soup line during the depression, it's homebrew goods. I've been given pause by this sort of thing on occasion. Another online supplier once wiped me out of stock of a particular item because they sell it for nearly 40% more and it was worth it for them to get it quickly. It didn't take long to realize that they just saved me from packaging 25 individual items. I will concede though that it's more an issue with items that are inherently smaller components of a larger kit. They might lose business on several ingredient kits when a core hop is out of stock. Eh, there are always substitutes though.

More on topic, I'm surprised you lasted this long with that particular store regardless of this particular incident. I doubt there was an existing policy in place, it was just a seat of the pants decision.

Edit.. I also heard that with their move to the new location that they planned to stock a whole lot more grain and bulk components for serious homebrewers but it sounds like it hasn't happened. They told me that if I ever want a full sack that I need to call Monday so that it's added to their shipment for the week. Grain doesn't go bad in a week and if they'd just stack to the ceiling in the back corner, they'd be known as a place to go for bulk grain anytime. If they want to be a BOP, just stop selling to homebrewers. Don't act like you're a homebrew supply and then suck at it badly.

 

[CreamyGoodness]

Pursuant to what Bobby M said, ever see an Indian market? (Not in India I mean in a US/Canada city). HUGE bags of rice in piles in the back. Sometimes they are sold in bulk, and sometimes they break that bag down into plastic grocer bags.

I dont see why these captains of industry cant stockpile grain. Hops are a bit different because they are harder to grow and to acquire stocks of, but barley? Dont we pay farmers in this country not to grow it since we grow too much? I know its not just corn.

Question for Homercidal, if the store owner had said "we are trying to keep that hop on hand for other customers, can I give you two oz's of.... whatever that would work in your recipe... instead and I'll drop a buck off your bill" would that have brought you back through the door the next time?

I had that experience at a butcher about a year ago, apparently the lady down the street always bought a filet on thursday, and I was about to buy them all, including the one she usually bought. He offered me two pieces of filet off a loin and a buck off.

 

[stratslinger]

Actually, a recent BYO had a pretty interesting article about barley - I think it's still up on their website if you're interested...

Long story short, nobody's paying anybody a thing NOT to plant barley - it's just that there are a ton of other crops that are far more marketable, so relatively little barley gets planted. And basically all of it is contracted out to maltsters, who probably aren't generating tons of excess themselves.

 

[CreamyGoodness]

Well that proves me wrong! Thanks for the schooling... just dont tell my fiance I am fallable.

 

[Airplanedoc]

Todays market prices for grains

Corn 607 cents/bushel 56lbs
Soybeans 1152 cents/bushel 60lbs
wheat 623 cents/bushel 60lbs
Barley 210 cents/bushel 48lbs

It takes a lot of barley to cover the payment on your $350+K John Deere Combine.

 

[Beezy]

That's interesting. I wonder why we pay pretty much the same for malted barely as malted wheat.

 

[Beezy]

Todays market prices for grains

Corn 607 cents/bushel 56lbs
Soybeans 1152 cents/bushel 60lbs
wheat 623 cents/bushel 60lbs
Barley 210 cents/bushel 48lbs

It takes a lot of barley to cover the payment on your $350+K John Deere Combine.

It might actually take a study to figure this out since there are other factors. Barley has a higher yield per acre than a lot of grains. Maltsters may pay more for barley too.

http://www.agcensus.usda.gov/Publications/2002/Volume_1,_Chapter_1_US/st99_1_033_033.pdf

 

[teal]

My 2 cents - as long as I'm here...

If I am a retailer I buy a sack of grain for X, hope to sell it for Y and realize Z in profit. Why do I care if that's spread out over 15 customers or just 1? I've realized my profit and it also provided more short term cash flow.

IMO, as a customer I'm more ticked off at being rationed than hearing "Sorry, we're currently out, there's a shortage" - THAT I understand, what ticks me off is the idea that my dollar bill isn't as good as some future customer who may or may NOT need this particular item before you can restock's dollar bill.

 

[bonzombiekitty]

My 2 cents - as long as I'm here...

If I am a retailer I buy a sack of grain for X, hope to sell it for Y and realize Z in profit. Why do I care if that's spread out over 15 customers or just 1? I've realized my profit and it also provided more short term cash flow.

If you have X and you are selling it at Y, and X is in high enough demand & scarce enough, you know you are absolutely, without question, going to realize Z quickly regardless of if you sell it all to one person, or a little to many people.

So here's the question: Do you sell all of X to one person, and risk turning away 10 other potential customers, who may not return to your store in the future because they think you can't keep stuff in stock and/or risk them going to another store in order to acquire X but also purchasing A, B, and C at the other store when they would have bought it at your store if they had been able to buy X (think something like an iPod. I'm probably going to buy things like a car charger and other accessories for it at the store I buy the iPod at)?

or

Do you ration the supply such that 10 people can get what they want, but that 1 person can only get some of what he wants? You'd keep the ten other people happy, and get their additional purchases, but risk losing the business of a potential customer that will tend to buy larger quantities.

It all depends on supply & demand, product (does selling X mean a customer is likely to buy A, B, and C too?), and competition (can a customer easily find a nearby store?).

ETA: My LHBS had to recently ration simcoe and citra hops at 2ozs of each per person. Makes sense for him since there's another LHBS not too far away so if he sold all of his simcoe and citra hops to a couple people, he'd risk many more going to his competition.

 

[Dr. Francois]

If you have X and you are selling it at Y, and X is in high enough demand & scarce enough, you know you are absolutely, without question, going to realize Z quickly regardless of if you sell it all to one person, or a little to many people.

So here's the question: Do you sell all of X to one person, and risk turning away 10 other potential customers, who may not return to your store in the future because they think you can't keep stuff in stock and/or risk them going to another store in order to acquire X but also purchasing A, B, and C at the other store when they would have bought it at your store if they had been able to buy X (think something like an iPod. I'm probably going to buy things like a car charger and other accessories for it at the store I buy the iPod at)?

or

Do you ration the supply such that 10 people can get what they want, but that 1 person can only get some of what he wants? You'd keep the ten other people happy, and get their additional purchases, but risk losing the business of a potential customer that will tend to buy larger quantities.

It all depends on supply & demand, product (does selling X mean a customer is likely to buy A, B, and C too?), and competition (can a customer easily find a nearby store?).

ETA: My LHBS had to recently ration simcoe and citra hops at 2ozs of each per person. Makes sense for him since there's another LHBS not too far away so if he sold all of his simcoe and citra hops to a couple people, he'd risk many more going to his competition.

In the situation you described, demand is much greater than supply. Why not raise the price of high-demand hops and let the market take care of itself? Rationing seems like a prole, command-economy way of dealing with shortfalls.

I've often wondered why many shops keep hops at regimented prices (e.g. $2/oz across the board) instead of shifting prices based on market price and demand. Quite simply, there is more demand for "C" hops than there is for, say, Perle.

 

[ArcaneXor]

In the situation you described, demand is much greater than supply. Why not raise the price of high-demand hops and let the market take care of itself? Rationing seems like a prole, command-economy way of dealing with shortfalls.

I've often wondered why many shops keep hops at regimented prices (e.g. $2/oz across the board) instead of shifting prices based on market price and demand. Quite simply, there is more demand for "C" hops than there is for, say, Perle.

Demand is not easy to anticipate a priori, and neither is available supply. Constantly changing prices takes time and is frustrating to customers (especially if the prices are changed based on perceived demand spikes, at which point competitors will be able to beat the local store easily). Your scenario assumes availability of information that local homebrew stores usually do not have access to.

 

[bonzombiekitty]

In the situation you described, demand is much greater than supply. Why not raise the price of high-demand hops and let the market take care of itself? Rationing seems like a prole, command-economy way of dealing with shortfalls.

I've often wondered why many shops keep hops at regimented prices (e.g. $2/oz across the board) instead of shifting prices based on market price and demand. Quite simply, there is more demand for "C" hops than there is for, say, Perle.

*shrug* I dunno why homebrew suppliers price the way they do. It might just be it's too much effort for them to figure out an ideal price for each type of hop, and only raise the price of a given hop if the price goes up really high. We're not talking about large companies that can do serious market research. Aforementioned LHBS did this when he rationed supply - he could only get his hands on Citra and Simcoe at retail prices, so he sold them for extra as well as rationed them. He supposedly was breaking even on the sale of those hops. He decided that it was better to get a smaller profit off the grain and yeast sales rather than risk losing a sale entirely.

But going beyond LHBS, some stores are contracted to sell a product at a given price. So even if demand is uber high, they can't raise the price easily.

 

[Acoma]

I agree to selling it to whoever comes first. If I am a good retailer I would get more supply asap for the next customer or they will go to someone who can get it for them. This isn't that complicated.

 

[bonzombiekitty]

I agree to selling it to whoever comes first. If I am a good retailer I would get more supply asap for the next customer or they will go to someone who can get it for them. This isn't that complicated.

But there's your risk. Say it takes 3 business days to get more supplies in (assuming you can find them at all, remember we're talking about items that are on the scarce end of things). Within those three days you could have multiple people who come in looking for smaller quantities of X, which you don't have because you sold it all to some guy on day 1. If those multiple people instead opt to go to your competitor, where they can get it NOW, you're potentially missing out on money from peripheral sales (e.g. yeast).

Now, what's better? Potentially losing a sale to one person who buys a lot, or potentially losing several smaller sales? It can be either or depending on what's going on.

 

[Pappers_]

In the situation you described, demand is much greater than supply. Why not raise the price of high-demand hops and let the market take care of itself? Rationing seems like a prole, command-economy way of dealing with shortfalls.

I've often wondered why many shops keep hops at regimented prices (e.g. $2/oz across the board) instead of shifting prices based on market price and demand. Quite simply, there is more demand for "C" hops than there is for, say, Perle.

After consulting my crystal ball and my favorite telephone psychic, I present, based on the above scenario, an HBT Thread of the Future:

I can't believe it! I went to my LHBS and those b*astards tripled the price of my favorite hop! I reminded them I have patronized their store for years, spent thousands of dollars there, and now they gouge me like this. Screw them, I'm buying online from now on, rather than supporting those ungrateful, price gouging SOBS.

 

[cadarnell]

didnt read everything and Im sure someone already said it ... but if you dont have hops you cant sell grain, priming sugar, caps, bottles, etc. .. you should have been told about the limit when they told you they had the hops though .. and in this particular case, i think they should have sold you the other 2 ozs. and just politely warned you about buying so much at once in the future ...