Broke up with my LHBS today

[BucksPA]

Today marks a sad day in my life. I ended my relationship today with my LHBS after what I consider to be 'bad business.' It all began last night when my father and I decided to brew up the Bells' Two Hearted Ale clone listed here under the IPA recipes. I buy my base grains in bulk so I had my 2-row on hand. However, I had to pick up S-04, cara-pils, crystal 20, and 10 oz. of Centennial.

It all comes down to the hops. They have charts of current inventoried hops and their respective AA%. I saw that they didn't have centennials so I started subbing out the hops with Cascades x 2 for every ounce of Centennial and some Columbus at a 1:1 ratio. 1 of the 5 employees then told me that they just received a huge shipment of hops today and they have a few pounds of Centennial along with every other hop replenishment.

Fantastic! I can actually do this recipe to clone, without substitution. He fills my 10 ounces of Centennial and proceeds to tell me that if he were the one who agreed to filling my order, that he wouldn't have let me order 10 ounces of the 5 pounds of Centennial in his stock, "due to limited availability." He did fill my 10 ounces but he pointed out that this shipment was showing 8.1%, whereas the recipe I had in Beersmith showed the AA% at 10%. I asked for 2 additional ounces and he said, "No. I can't. It's not a matter of me playing favorites, it's that we have to ration our supplies." I look at him......and the other 6 ounces from the 1 lb bag, andask, "really?" Yep, sorry he tells me.

The conversation got very awkward. I was in disbelief. I couldn't believe I was looking at another 6 ounces of hops and he was denying me an additional 2. The feeling could be equated to stealing candy from a kid. I have been a big spender at this LHBS. I've easily spent over $2000 with them over the past 2.5 years from ingredients every two weeks or so, to a barley crusher, to 4 cornies, to countless parts, valves, minerals, sugars, sanitizers, etc.

They know who I am, but to their dismay, can forget who I am, because I don't agree with the way they conduct business. It's not even worth an effort to express my concerns to them as their are 2 other LHBS's in my vicinity. This particular one was in freehold, nj and I bid thee farewell.

You don't do business that way!

 

[mattd2]

Wow, that sounds like a messed up business plan - Set maximums orders in the hopes that others will come and buy the rest (although they most likely would) instead of making the customer that is in the store now, with money, happy. Fair enough you would ditch that place.
Did you buy the other stuff from them or leave it on the conter and go to the another LHBS?

 

[BucksPA]

I may be stubborn but still have common sense. I bought it, then left. Otherwise I would have had to make another trip to some other LHBS to find out they didnt have what I wanted While I have 3 LHBS to choose from, they are all in opposite directions of each other.

I will ponder at this for a while though

 

[Clann]

You shoulda whipped out your phone (assuming you have the numbers to the other LHBSs ) right there in the store and called to palce an order and taken your business to them.
Why do people not want to do their job in this day and age. It is so easy to make the customer happy but it is almost like employes try to piss the customers off because of some BS policy.

So you didn't buy from them, did you?

 

[bob1852]

Did you at least get breakup sex......I mean crystal malt?

 

[strat_thru_marshall]

you should place a phone call or email to the owner of the business and let him know, very politely, what happened and why you wont be taking your business there anymore. At least give the owner a chance to make it right. If he stands by the limit, take your business elsewhere. I love farmhouse brewing supply.com for hops...they get my business and have always provided great service.

 

[Beerrific]

Back 2 or 3 years ago, this is how all the homebrew shops where. $4/oz. for most domestic hops (the ones you actually want) and you could only buy 2 ounces. It was pretty common even among the large online shops.

On first thought the old saying "two in the hand..." but I guess not having hops available for the new brewer that comes in can end up costing more business. But really it sounds more like this guy should work a little harder at getting hops, Centennial should not be that hard to get really.

Anyway, 2011 crop will be in soon.

 

[Randar]

I buy hops and malt in bulk aside from yeast and some specialty grains... while I understand the desire to "ration" if they get limited supply or they are running low when a shipment has been delayed (LHBS once told me they weren't sure they could sell me a whole sack of Golden Promise because they were almost out but eventually sold it to me anyways)... the day the shipment comes in they have enough time to place another order if need be and not run out of supply. JMO.

If they do so little business that they can't replenish 5 lbs of hops before they run through them, then they are using some god-awful supply chain and I would question their long term viability in the first place.

 

[Beezy]

I heard something similar about my store. Guy goes to buy several 55 pounders of grain and guy gets profanity thrown at him. Thats when guy started getting bulk grain elsewhere. A lot of these stores have a monopoly on the local which isn't good for the customer but you have to buy stuff there to support the convenience factor. Specialty grains and yeast anyway.

 

[konrad]

I heard there is a shortage of Centennial hops. So maybe they can't get more of it.

 

[Airborneguy]

I love the idea of calling one of the other stores right there in front of the guy. Luckily, my LHBS is totally the opposite of something like that, especially since I only have one. They bend over backwards to please me as a customer, and then do the same for the next guy. They'll make you happy somehow, no matter what. You should definitely stick to your guns and not spend your money there in the future.

 

[BBL_Brewer]

Grow your own hops and cut them out completely. It's nice to be self sufficient.

 

[merkinman]

I have 9 oz centennial I would trade for other hops ( preferably noble, simcoe, or others).

 

[RDWHAHB]

Had a tire store hesitate to sell me 4 tires as it was all their stock in that model. I said, "i thought you stocked things to hopefully sell them." He backed off a bit but I said f it and bought else where. I thought it was bizarre.

 

[jmendez29]

You know, I just had this conversation with a guy today. When it comes down to it, this owner of that store has every right to run his business any which way he sees fit. If he wants to horde the hops, then more power to him. But on the other hand, I have every right to choose not to spend my money there as well. I have exercised this right to many stores, including a popular mega-retailer and a popular nationwide home improvement store. I don't begrudge anyone who chooses to bring their business there, but they will never see another dime of my money again for a lot of the same reasons.

 

[mattd2]

I heard something similar about my store. Guy goes to buy several 55 pounders of grain and guy gets profanity thrown at him. Thats when guy started getting bulk grain elsewhere. A lot of these stores have a monopoly on the local which isn't good for the customer but you have to buy stuff there to support the convenience factor. Specialty grains and yeast anyway.

I could understand that the owner would be in between a rock and a hard place on that one, sell nearly all you grain to one guy but risk pissing off a lot more when you are waiting for the replacment shipment but why would he go off his nut at him. Worst thing you could do in my opinion. I'm sure the guy would understand if the owner had just politly said "wow, thats a big order you have there, unfortunatly as that is so large I will have to special order it with my malt supplier and it might take a few days to get here. But I'll see if I can get you a bulk discount or something (even if it means cutting his bottom line a bit)", then evryone should be happy. Sometimes I can see why you would not want to leave yourself short and this is one of those cases, but the OP's is not, it was 2 oz when there was over 80% of the shops order still in stock!

 

[Beezy]

I could understand that the owner would be in between a rock and a hard place on that one, sell nearly all you grain to one guy but risk pissing off a lot more when you are waiting for the replacment shipment but why would he go off his nut at him. Worst thing you could do in my opinion. I'm sure the guy would understand if the owner had just politly said "wow, thats a big order you have there, unfortunatly as that is so large I will have to special order it with my malt supplier and it might take a few days to get here. But I'll see if I can get you a bulk discount or something (even if it means cutting his bottom line a bit)", then evryone should be happy. Sometimes I can see why you would not want to leave yourself short and this is one of those cases, but the OP's is not, it was 2 oz when there was over 80% of the shops order still in stock!

Right. It's common courtesy (I guess) to call this in in advance. That's fine but you don't need to be calling people names. Especially to a guy that brews 3 times a week and but stuff mainly from that store. Common business sense.

 

[scarlessmeanie]

I currently work in a pharmacy and I can't imagine if this same sort of thing happened there. Not dispensing meds because the patient would be buying the last that we have in stock? That's a recipe for potential ER visits. It's first come, first served, man.

I guess what I'm trying to say, if only to make myself feel better about my current work situation, is that, for one brief moment, prescription medications are equivalent to beer, even if it's in the harshest of lights.

 

[mattd2]

Right. It's common courtesy (I guess) to call this in in advance. That's fine but you don't need to be calling people names. Especially to a guy that brews 3 times a week and but stuff mainly from that store. Common business sense.

Wow, the fact he brews 3 times a week and frequents the store makes the owners response even worse. Yeah maybe he could of called but I'm sure noone would expect to get a balling for asking a store owner if they could pay them a large amount of money, no matter what the circumstances are , the most I would expect would be a polite "sure, but is it ok if you pick it up in a few days?"

 

[Shonuff]

So you're going to spend more money on gas driving out of the way to another store over 2 oz of hopes? Jakes on you

 

[Beezy]

Wow, the fact he brews 3 times a week and frequents the store makes the owners response even worse. Yeah maybe he could of called but I'm sure noone would expect to get a balling for asking a store owner if they could pay them a large amount of money, no matter what the circumstances are , the most I would expect would be a polite "sure, but is it ok if you pick it up in a few days?"

The owner is never there tho. They own 3 stores around town. It would be much nicer if each of the stores where owned by different people.

 

[codyjp]

Customer<2 oz of hops


Fail.

 

[Airplanedoc]

I cant imagine that the store manager/owner is not aware that this is happening in the store. It sounds to me that the store is not that interested in your business anyway. So I doubt that writing a letter to the owner will do any good.

I would just happily move my business to the next store. When they see a $2K dip in sales they might or might not figure it out.

 

[Bernie Brewer]

I understand you are angry, but I believe they did the right thing. They are trying to be as fair as they can with everybody. As was stated in earlier posts, this was quite common a couple years ago when hops were so short. There were times I had to show my recipe before being allowed to buy hops. If this is an isolated incident, I would let it slide.

 

[deputyandy]

I think I know what store you are referring to. I've always got an off putting feeling about that place. Not very good customer service in my experience.

 

[Homercidal]

Did they have a posting or advertisement stating that there is a shortage and hops will be rationed?

If not, then they have a responsibility, IMO, to sell the hops to whoever comes in and wants to give them money for them. Shorting a customer a couple of ounces, and ruining the recipe, is nearly like not selling him the hops in the first place.

If they want to ration, they should let everyone know that there is a chance they won't get as much as the want.

Personally, I think it stinks that they screw the guy who is actually there spending his money, instead of informing the guy down the road that they have sold out, sorry.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

No matter what the basis, there's no deny that it was poor customer service to wait until after he filed the order to tell you the order wasn't enough and he wouldn't give you the rest of what you needed. It was also poor customer service in how he approached telling you they might limit how much hops they sell to an individual customer.

That aside, there might be a reasonable explanation for limiting sales to a given customer. The store might only be able to buy so much at a time from a vendor and if they run out quickly they are probably losing a lot of business from people who might buy a few ounces to stores that have the desired hops in stock. So losing one customer might be better than losing a dozen sales per month.

 

[ArcaneXor]

I think rationing hops that are in short supply is more than reasonable, but the OP should have been informed about this when he was first told about the new shipment.

 

[remilard]

I understand you are angry, but I believe they did the right thing. They are trying to be as fair as they can with everybody. As was stated in earlier posts, this was quite common a couple years ago when hops were so short. There were times I had to show my recipe before being allowed to buy hops. If this is an isolated incident, I would let it slide.

+1

If someone came on here and said "I was in line at the HBS to buy Centennial and they sold the last pound to the guy in front of me and all I needed was 2 ounces" everyone here would have piled on.

Why can't the OP use another high alpha acid hop for bittering and then use his 8 ounces of Centennial for late additions? Making those adjustments is part of brewing.

 

[Ryan_PA]

Can I assume you are referring to a store that recently moved a mile down the road from the previous location? If so, I feel the general attitude of that store off-putting. I stopped going there altogether as well.

 

[Acoma]

I would have walked out without having spent a single cent. Then called the owner and explained why I will never spend my money in his store again and why I will tell every other brewer I know what a bad shop they run.

 

[ArcaneXor]

I would have walked out without having spent a single cent. Then called the owner and explained why I will never spend my money in his store again and why I will tell every other brewer I know what a bad shop they run.

What a childish attitude. Why not contact the owner, letting him know that you were displeased with the service, so that he can review and evaluate the situation? I am sick and tired of bashers who go running to public forums to complain about perceived bad service they received from some store employee instead of going to the owner first. If the owner blows you off, then go complain, but give the guy a chance to make it right first!

 

[Dr. Francois]

Or apply my policy with waitstaff at restaurants:

Hand out twice as many compliments as complaints. Then you're justified in complaining when the need arises.

When was the last time any of us called the owner to let him or her know about a stellar brew shop employee?

Speaking of which, I need to call my LHBS and tell them that the new guy is working out very well.

I have high standards for customer service. But abandoning a business without explanation does nothing to improve the problem (not that it's your problem, but still). When you stiff a waitress for bad service, more often than not they will just write you off as a cheapskate rather than admit they provided bad service. Telling the manager you were displeased gets the message across.

I say let the upper-managment know about the situation and your intended recourse.

 

[Homercidal]

I don't know. Paying customer, trying to fill out a single recipe's requirements. It's not like someone trying to "Stock up" or resell them during a time of crisis.

The next guy can order them online. I would not fault a retailer fulfilling a customers reasonable request if they have cash in their hands.

 

[the_bird]

+1

If someone came on here and said "I was in line at the HBS to buy Centennial and they sold the last pound to the guy in front of me and all I needed was 2 ounces" everyone here would have piled on.

Why can't the OP use another high alpha acid hop for bittering and then use his 8 ounces of Centennial for late additions? Making those adjustments is part of brewing.

That's kind of where I'm at. If they've had an issue being able to keep Centennial in stock (it's a pretty popular hop), I don't really blame them for not wanting to give out more than your recipe called for. You could sub in any other clean, high-alpha hop for part of the bittering addition and you would never know the difference.

 

[Airplanedoc]

You could sub in any other clean, high-alpha hop for part of the bittering addition and you would never know the difference.

forgive my ignorance as I am kind of new to the brewing thing.

Couldn't other customers do the same as well?

 

[the_bird]

Not if they need the Centennial for flavor/aroma additions (as is pretty common). They could sub in Cascade or something else, but that'll make their beers different. The OP could have used almost anything, since he was really just short for his bittering addition.

 

[ao125]

There were times I had to show my recipe before being allowed to buy hops. If this is an isolated incident, I would let it slide.

That is laughable. When it becomes easier to buy a handgun than it is to buy hops, there is a serious problem.

If someone came on here and said "I was in line at the HBS to buy Centennial and they sold the last pound to the guy in front of me and all I needed was 2 ounces" everyone here would have piled on.

If the guy in front of you bought the last two ounces, you could/should have made a deal with the guy to buy them off him, or put in an order somewhere else. The onus isn't on the store to have psychic powers to guess that the next person in line will want the same thing.

The store is there to sell product. The consumer is there to buy product.

 

[BlackBetty]

tsk tsk..

We have maximums on a few varities of hops in our homebrew shop, however if someone needs them for a recipe, we'll gladly sell them. The purpose of quotas is to prevent one customer from buying all the hops in a weeks time to shove in their freezer, and then brag on HBT that they have 2lbs of hops oxidizing away. Remember, if a shop doesn't have hops, they can't effectively be in business, can they? It seems dumb to not sell a product a customer needs, but think about it.

The alternative to maximums is price gouging (Supply/Demand). If the shop told you the Centennial hops were $10/oz. You might re-think you're recipe or how badly you needed them. After reading the post you've made, he may well increase prices. We try to keep ours reasonably priced, and maximums help that without us having to worry about not having hops for the rest of the year.

I am certain the shop wasn't maliciously trying to prevent you from getting hops. Likely an employee with a limited understanding of what needed to be done in that situation. However, posts on public forums, are somewhat malicious in nature... You may not go to the store again not from your own will, but because for other reasons.

One of the most difficult things to deal with running a business is the online rants/raves that never were brought up to the owner BEFORE the rant/rave. Doing business with a small business is much different than shopping in a supercenter, talk to the owner, let him know how you feel. You're likely shooting yourself in the foot for not shopping local.

A word on hops, pricing, and shortages. In 2010 most LHBS did not have contracts for hops, most small breweries also did not have contracts for hops in place. This left all LHBS and small breweries that didn't have contracts scrambling to find hops from whoever they could (many bought from the same places retail consumers did) because THEIR OWN wholesalers would NOT SELL them hops. So, to the business owner that couldn't buy hops from their wholesaler, I can see how it isn't a far stretch for them to ration out a few pounds of hops they likely overpaid and scrounged around for - Usually these hops that they ration, they use to get customers in the door, rather than make much profit on as they likely paid retail or above pricing. If a shop announces they have Simcoe hops in, they automatically get customers in to buy stuff. If they sell them all to one guy, those customers don't come in and ultimately business suffers. So it's either high hop pricing, or maximums.

For 2011/2012 many breweries are getting contracts to secure hop pricing. Most homebrew shops do not have the funds to do so. With no increase in growing most of the hard-to-find hops, expect higher prices or more "maximums" around.

Owning a business and doing the "right" thing isn't easy when you have employees representing you that may or may not understand the goal of the business, contact the owner before you blast him online. He likely is unaware, and he might need to know information about this employee to make his store better in the future.

 

[Airplanedoc]

The alternative to maximums is price gouging (Supply/Demand).

Following the economic laws of supply and demand is NOT the same as price gouging

In one you pay fair market value for a product based on the real supply of the product. In the other you are paying higher price due to a artificially constrained system.