You should be able to lift very quickly and still have no issue. I think it might be faulty as it should be very difficult for the false bottom to come out.
Brewzilla Gen4 Discussion/Tips Talk
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You should be able to lift very quickly and still have no issue. I think it might be faulty as it should be very difficult for the false bottom to come out.
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I put the malt pipe and screen in right after I filled the unit with water and made sure it was seated. I was careful to not to lift too quickly, but it pretty much just let loose after the first or second "click" on the rope ratchet. I have the 65l version.
agentbud
Well-Known Member
@KegLand , so far I have not experienced this problem with mine but it's something I certainly want to verify as I purchased mine in the 4-8 months ago range. How can we verify that the malt pipe has the correctly sized bottom edge? Is there a specific width we should look for?
Thanks.
Mine didn't even make it to the first legs. It had only come up a couple inches, so being heavy in the water, one can assume I hadn't accelerated it very fast.
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I just emailed the retailer I bought it from and explained the situation with the mash pipe/screen. Will see what happens.....
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I Cal 1 to 64C. Filled my kettle wit 6 gallons of water. Started the controller to test it. IT FAILED! I adjusted the temp to 50C to account for the water temp. IT FAILED. I switched to PID & got nothing but errors. I am stuck. The controller stopped working!
DuncB
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Brewing indoors is fine if you get or make a condenser.
I use about 20 litres and this can be used for washing, watering the garden even in the washing machine.
Bottoms_Up
Well-Known Member
That's impressive! I thought it would use 2 or 3 times as much!
DuncB
Well-Known Member
With the lid on I'm only boiling at 26 to 28 % power so boil off is about a pint an hour. Boiling temp is enough to drive off the DMS which you can smell in the condenser water and in the air.
No noisy extractor fan either
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Shout out to Williams Brewing. I emailed them and explained the situation and they immediately sent out a new malt pipe and bottom screen, even though they were unaware of these apparent defective malt pipes. Kegland should let these retailers know they exist and are being sold.
I have spent over 7 hours trying to get Cal 1 working correctly since you told me to make the adjusyment. I cannot figure our why this controller is becoming such a huge issue now. I had it working perfectly before you had me make an adjustment to the Cal 1 set point. I have worked on calibratiing precision instrumentation for over 30 years and this has me completely baffled. PLEAS!!!!!!!!!
First batch happening with the heat exchanger dish in my brewzilla 65 L GEN 4. As you can see from the attached picture, overshoots are still happening, but the overshoot severity is less. Not quite as PID stable as I was hoping for, but I’m sure the end product will be unaffected. Perhaps the RAPT Bluetooth thermometer will help this?
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JoepH
Active Member
Absolutly! By me it did wonders. From now on, confidently and relaxed brew sesions.
I gave up. After 7 hours of trying to get the calibrations correct what I get on my controller is this: NF or NC
Any ideas what this means? This is actually the third controller that I have had issues.
junkyjunky
New Member
Just got my Gen 4 220V. Are people using adapters to plug into a dryer or oven outlet or wiring up a separate box? Any advantages/disadvantages to either?
Yes if you have the ability to measure 64C with another device that you can calibrate against then I would do this and calibrate your Cal 1 point. In the video we just suggest 0C as many customers do not have a second thermometer to calibrate against.
It it probably worth contacting your retailer about this as it should not be able to happen so I would start the warranty process. Normally if you take some photos and send them in that is what is normally required but you have to contact the retailer that you purchased the item from.
I would be more than happy to assist you but I just require a bit more information. What do you mean "it failed"?. What errors did you get? How did the controller stop working? Were you connected to wifi at the time? If so what are the last 4 digits of your MAC and I will try and look at the log online.
PID
Some customers regard PID as a magical function that will make you hit your targets every time without any overshoot. When decided to include a PID function in the gen 4 we were well aware that if we put an an overly simple PID function so it's something that you just turn on/off then it simply will not work that well over a wide range of batch sizes and pump speeds. I should also say when we have seen PID implemented in other home brewing applications as an on/off feature it generally just greatly reduces the power significantly and weights the "P" coefficient too much. In order for PID to actually be useful over a range of different batch sizes and pump recirculation speeds we have to allow customers to tune the P, I and D coefficients and this will require you to learn how to tune them for your particular application. If customers are not willing to learn how to tune PID my opinion is that you should turn this function off.
If you are willing to put the time into learning how to tune PID then you can get this overshoot to be zero. With that said the probe is in the base of the boiler and really the only temperature you are concerned about. I think some customers should understand that if you want to raise the temp of the malt pipe efficiently then you should specifically want to raise the temperate at the base where the element so the base temp is "above" your desired mash temp. The Bluetooth thermometer allows you to do this. We have a setting in the controller called "sensor differential" that is specifically for this reason and it allows you to raise the base temperature within the sensor differential of the Bluetooth probe that is in the core of the malt pipe.
So in summary you could finely tune your PID to have no overshoot why would you when it's really not the temperature you are targeting in the first place. Fluctuation in the base temperature near the element doesn't mean that your malt pipe temperature is also fluctuating. Generally the thermal mass of the malt pipe will buffer this anyway. In my opinion if you really want to very precisely achieve core malt pipe temperatures you should be more concerned about malt pipe temperatures and this comes down to either:
1. Just leaving the brewery for long enough for the temp in the whole system to equalize and eventually with enough recirculation and the malt pipe will be very close to the temperature on the screen.
2. Alternatively get the Bluetooth probe and then specifically target a higher base element temperature so you can achieve the core malt pipe temp quicker. (this is definitely the case if you plan on doing step mash)
JoepH
Active Member
Great post. I fully agree. Keep up the good works.
dmsn7d
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It looks like the middle of May is the anticipated date for US distributors to receive the RAPT thermometer and heat exchanger dish. I'm also waiting on the new pro distillation lid so that I can brew inside with a steam condenser and the anticipated date for the lid is also the same time. Brutal that we've got to wait that long.
agentbud
Well-Known Member
last email I got from MB (on 3/4) is they expect arrival of the dish on Mar 29 with purchasing available the following week. Hopefully that has not slipped again...
I went the adapter route. Y off the dryer outlet (so I don't have to keep disconnecting the dryer) then extension cord to a final adapter for the 6-30 plug.
Pros: For me it was way easier than all the work required to add another 30 amp circuit to my already full panel box. Also, I can dolly my gen 4 all around the brewing space without accidentally unplugging it from an outlet (sink, lift point, etc).
Cons: Only brewing when the dryer is not running. Also, picking up the cord/adapter at the end of the brew day.
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Teufelhunde
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Basic physics tells me the bulge should be up to channel the downward force towards the edges and increase the diameter of the plate when it flexes, whereas bulge down would channel towards the center and with flex in the plate, would cause a loss of diameter in the plate and allow it to fall through the hole....
YMMV
Lon
I was of the mindset that I wanted to squeeze every available ml out of the space in the basket. As it was, I was too close to the handle holes during recirculation. Who would think that the metal would warp and drop out so easily?
agentbud
Well-Known Member
Heat Exchanger Dish (HED) is now listed on morebeer for purchase. $19.99 for the 35L version and $29.99 for the 65L
https://www.morebeer.com/category/robobrew-brewzilla.html
https://www.morebeer.com/category/robobrew-brewzilla.html
dmsn7d
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Yeah, they got it earlier than I expected. William's has the expected date as May 19th. Wonder if that's just a placeholder.
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Christmas came early!
JoepH
Active Member
Does anybody knows what this update makes better? I downloaded it but can’t find what updates/upgrades it contains. Is there a place where Kegland publishes its updates? In gitlab and the issuetracker also no info.
Andy Malcolm
New Member
Four batches in with the HED and BT thermometer. Mostly seeing the expected benefits.
One observations though - the grain bed seems to be more compacted than without the HED, one stuck mash so far in four, as this happens the probe sinks with the top plate and for grain bills around 9-12lbs definitely ends up in the bottom third of the mash pipe leading to bigger variations in mash temperature.
Definitely worthwhile upgrades, but still some tweaking to do with the PID and recirculation rate.
One observations though - the grain bed seems to be more compacted than without the HED, one stuck mash so far in four, as this happens the probe sinks with the top plate and for grain bills around 9-12lbs definitely ends up in the bottom third of the mash pipe leading to bigger variations in mash temperature.
Definitely worthwhile upgrades, but still some tweaking to do with the PID and recirculation rate.
I’ve been in contact with them regarding the alerts that you’re supposed to be able to get via wifi or mobile. They wanted Me to update and then try the alerts again. So I’d assume there’s a bit of work done in that area, the communication with rapt portal, but beyond that I have no idea.
JoepH
Active Member
What if you don’t use the top plate?The weight could help compacting the grainbuild.
agentbud
Well-Known Member
I'd like to know this as well. Looked around everywhere I could think and came up with nada. I emailed Kegland...
We seem to have a lot of customers wanting the 25Watt pump upgrade. Just out of interest if we just made the BrewZilla Gen 4 65L with the larger pump how many of you guys would prefer this? The retail price would end up being about $15 more expensive?
Generally speaking the smaller 6w pump is more than enough for most applications but some customers using counter flow or plate chillers may find the 25watt pump more desirable.
Hi Everyone, I just got my BZ G4 35L 110V and this thread is fantastic, very helpful, and has already helped me a lot!
I plan to brew in my garage and so far all the outlets I connected my BZ to failed to stand up to the challenge, their breakers tripping. My last resort (before bringing in an electrician) is to connect it to the drier outlet, which is a NEMA 10-30. I found on Amazon what looks like a relevant adapter, I am just worried that the drier may be running on 240v (the specs say 120/240V) - any advice or suggestion would be highly welcome
I plan to brew in my garage and so far all the outlets I connected my BZ to failed to stand up to the challenge, their breakers tripping. My last resort (before bringing in an electrician) is to connect it to the drier outlet, which is a NEMA 10-30. I found on Amazon what looks like a relevant adapter, I am just worried that the drier may be running on 240v (the specs say 120/240V) - any advice or suggestion would be highly welcome
tgbruiser
Member
I think the existing 65L pump is way more than adequate; I don't use a plate chiller or counter flow chiller. I definitely would not consider purchasing it.
The 110-120V 35L unit draws 12.5 amps at full power. It should not trip a 15A circuit breaker, if it is the only load on the circuit. A 20A circuit is recommended.Hi Everyone, I just got my BZ G4 35L 110V and this thread is fantastic, very helpful, and has already helped me a lot!
I plan to brew in my garage and so far all the outlets I connected my BZ to failed to stand up to the challenge, their breakers tripping. My last resort (before bringing in an electrician) is to connect it to the drier outlet, which is a NEMA 10-30. I found on Amazon what looks like a relevant adapter, I am just worried that the drier may be running on 240v (the specs say 120/240V) - any advice or suggestion would be highly welcome
What other items do you have plugged into your garage outlets, and how many separate circuits (not outlets) are there in your garage? Are the garage outlets GFCI protected? They should be if the house is of newer construction. But if not, you need to add GFCI protection by changing an appropriate outlet.
I would never try to run a 120V appliance from a 240V outlet. The adapter you list connects the neutral and ground in order to function, and because of that I would rate it as: DO NOT EVER USE. It is especially dangerous around wet areas (anywhere you are brewing.) You cannot add GFCI protection when using this adapter.
Brew on
Just me, but I think the current pump is more than adequate. In fact, I think one can easily collapse the grist and stick the mash with too high of a recirc rate with the current pump (ask me how I know). My Gen4 65L transfers 5.5 gallon batches to a conical, through my CF chiller, in a similar amount of time to a Chugger pump I used to use. The current pump is fine, no complaints.
Some other things that might help:
- PID 'profiles' for different batch & grain bill sizes through RAPT, and a way for brewers with similar setups & batch sizes to share them
-- Still learning, but it seems a Barleywine 5 gallon batch with 20+lb of grain might not be the same PID settings as a low gravity style 5 gallon batch
- HED to come stock with the unit
- Optionally include a Bluetooth RAPT thermometer with the unit--not that expensive, a great addition and a differentiator from other AIOs
- Put an "Initial Setup Checklist" in the instructions--useful for new and experienced AIO users (assemble, clean/passivate, set PID, calibrate, test batch, etc)
- Recommend the instructions direct new users to calibrate the temp probe in an initial setup checklist, up front, not back on page 33
- Recommend that some PID basics, explanations and recommended settings (same as in Kegland YouTube vid?) be added, much more than is on page 33
- BEERMKR pairs how-to videos to their app, a really useful thing when you are standing in front of the machine and words & pictures aren't working
I use a counterflow chiller and would like a bigger pump. $15 seems reasonable.
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