brewtree building

[chainsawbrewing]

all the brewtrees i've seen that are gravity fed, like this one here


have the lower level, where the kettle sits, elevated up in the air a bit, which in turn, pushes everything else up higher, and makes your HLT 9foot up in the air. is there any reason that you can't make one with the lower level just an inch or so above the ground, to keep the overall height of the tree lower? i don't see why not, but thought i'd ask, because i've never seen one that doesn't have it up in the air a bit.


brian

 

[FSR402]

all the brewtrees i've seen that are gravity fed, like this one here

have the lower level, where the kettle sits, elevated up in the air a bit, which in turn, pushes everything else up higher, and makes your HLT 9foot up in the air. is there any reason that you can't make one with the lower level just an inch or so above the ground, to keep the overall height of the tree lower? i don't see why not, but thought i'd ask, because i've never seen one that doesn't have it up in the air a bit.


brian

Because then it would not be gravity fed into the fermenter. You would need a pump to rack from the kettle to the fermenter.
My HLT is about 7 feet from the ground to the bottom of the pot and I wish that is was about another 6 inches higher to make the feed to the fermenter better. But I have it as short as I could get it and still feed.

 

[chainsawbrewing]

ha ha. oh yeah. DUH!?!?!

wasn't really thinking there. i guess though for "space saving" i could always dump the MLT while i'm boiling, cool the wort after the boil, then move the wort up to the stand the MLT is on. all in all, it would still be miles ahead of my current "brewtree" set up which consists of a table, a chair, and me holding my MLT up in the air while letting it drain into my kettle, lol.

 

[Lil' Sparky]

Mine's not that high. I guess I could've built it a bit lower, but I wanted a little wiggle room for adjusting the burner height. The bottom of the HLT is 4'8" and the top is 6'8". It fits neatly under some shelves in my garage.

You really don't want to be moving around a kettle full of wort. That defeats the purpose of the stand. Use some kind of pump to xfer the wort to the fermenter. Right now I use a $7 wort wizard. I just had a birthday, so I'll be getting a March pump very soon. I want to use it for recirculating the mash, too.

If you really want a low unit, then go for a 1- or 2-tier stand using pumps.

 

[the_bird]

I'm debating this very issue... the old man has offered to help me build a sculpture, so that's a project for this winter.

I'm definately going to buy a pump, I brewed with Dude on his tower system, and I don't like it being that high off the ground. I am thinking, though, that I would have two levels; as I would prefer to use gravity to drain into the kettle (seems that it would be easier to control the outflow by just opening a ball value, rather than controlling the output of a pump. Still thinking it through, though. Gotta decide on whether to make the mash tun direct-fired or to attempt some kind of HERMS/RIMS system; direct-fired would probably be a lot easier to set up initially.

 

[Lil' Sparky]

Gotta decide on whether to make the mash tun direct-fired or to attempt some kind of HERMS/RIMS system; direct-fired would probably be a lot easier to set up initially.

Why settle for one? You can have both. Direct-fire your MLT to heat the strike water and use HERMS/RIMS to maintain/step temps. I've done direct-fired steps in my system with low heat and stirring with great success. It requires a little extra physical involvement. I guess it's debatable if that's a good or bad thing.

 

[chainsawbrewing]

i have heard/read that stainless steel holds heat really well, and i don't think i'm going to need to direct fire my mlt. i honestly don't see myself EVER having to raise/lower the heat on my mlt, only do simple single beers. my buddy has a bunch of stainless steel oxygen tanks, and we're going to be cutting them up this weekend to make my HLT, MLT, and brew kettle out of them.

anybody have any direct experience with this? will a stainless steel mlt without a lid hold the heat decent for a 60minute mash?


brian

 

[Lil' Sparky]

It will drop a few degrees. You can wrap it with some kind of insulation and a lid really helps. The other benefit of using a burner on the keg MLT to heat the strike water is that it gets the keg hot which helps it hold the heat longer. I guess my point is why not stick a burner under it to heat the strike water? It only makes your job easier, even if you don't do step mashes.

 

[the_bird]

You can buy insulating sleeves for your mash tun that'll help with the heat retention. I imagine that there will be a big difference if you're brewing in August or in the middle of January.

I need to read up more on RIMS/HERMS, what the differences are and what's involved in setting a system up.

 

[chainsawbrewing]

It will drop a few degrees. You can wrap it with some kind of insulation and a lid really helps. The other benefit of using a burner on the keg MLT to heat the strike water is that it gets the keg hot which helps it hold the heat longer. I guess my point is why not stick a burner under it to heat the strike water? It only makes your job easier, even if you don't do step mashes.

well i guess because i was planning on heating the water in my HLT, and draining it into my MLT, and doughing in there, then just taking the remainder of the water left in the HLT (for batch sparging) and heating it up to sparge temps.

i didn't really think of heating the water directly in the MLT, because the way i do it now is i put in a little water, a little grain, then i stir, then a little more water, and a little more grain, repeat. i do that to try to eliminate the possiblity of a stuck sparge, or dry ball clumps of grain in the middle of the mash. that's the way i was taught to do it to eliminate that. if i'm just being overly cautios, then heck yeah, heating all of the strike water directly in the MLT, and then adding in all the grains does make more sense. no preheating, etc. of the MLT, and the HLT can be dedicated to only holding sparge water.

 

[Lil' Sparky]

That's what I do anyway. It makes sense to me and I haven't had any problems.

 

[chainsawbrewing]

That's what I do anyway. It makes sense to me and I haven't had any problems.

sorry, i don't follow you.

what's "what you do anyway?"

heating the water in the MLT, or heating the strike water in the HLT then dumping into the MLT?

 

[Lil' Sparky]

Heating the strike water in the MLT. That's what I had been advocating.

 

[FSR402]

Has anyone that's using a cooler style MLT tried to put electric heat in it?

 

[chainsawbrewing]

Heating the strike water in the MLT. That's what I had been advocating.

so you put the full amount of the water into the MLT, heat it up to 11 degrees hotter than your target mash temp. then you put in all the grains, and mix it all together, and kill the heat, and keep an eye on the temp for the duration of the mash?

 

[Lil' Sparky]

so you put the full amount of the water into the MLT, heat it up to 11 degrees hotter than your target mash temp. then you put in all the grains, and mix it all together, and kill the heat, and keep an eye on the temp for the duration of the mash?

Roger that, except the 11 degree rule doesn't necessarily hold. Since the MLT is holding so much heat, your strike temp needs to be a little lower than with a cooler. If I'm using grains that have been stored in the fridge, then I usually shoot for ~ 1' below what beersmith says. If they're at room temp, then I shoot a little lower. I also usually kill the heat, stir really well, let the temp stabilize, and then add the grains.

 

[Orfy]

I'm going to build a low level 2/3 tier.

I drain the mash tun into a pail on the floor and pour it manually (lifting) into the keggle. That means my MLT and Keggle can be on the same level and I just need the MLT on level 2 not level 3.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[buffburgo]

Right now I use a $7 wort wizard.

Do you use it in line with an immersion chiller? If so, do you cool your wort for a bit, then attach the wizard and syphon/chill at the same time from kettle to fermenter?

I think this wizard may be just what I need to keep my 3tier height low enough, but still allow to transfer without any pumps.

 

[Lil' Sparky]

I use a CFC setup basically like this. http://www.wortwizard.com/Tech/tech4.htm They're really designed to take advantage of the water your using to chill with. I guess you could chill it with an IC and then use a wort wizard or submersible pump (if the wort's already been filtered) to transfer it.