Brewometer kickstarter thoughts - digital bluetooth hydrometer

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Hmmm.... Well unfortunately I think I'm starting to experience the big differences in reading temps that yeastylad mentioned a few posts back.

When I got home yesterday both my Brewometer and temp probe in the fermenter measured roughly the same - temp probe was 58.9, Brewometer was 60. Went ahead and pitched my yeast.

When I woke up this morning, Brewometer was reporting a temp of 74, which was just impossible, so I went out to check on things. Sure enough, the temp probe was reading 59.5 degrees, while the Brewometer was telling me it was 74. I took a quick sample and measure with my Thermapen, which confirmed it was about 59 degrees.

Looking at my online data, it was reporting temps well outside of the possible range for about 3 hours, but it is now back to reading 60 which agrees with my temp probe.

I'm not really sure what could explain this aside from a malfunction. There was no violent fermentation going on during this time. This started only 8 hours after pitching, there was only a minimum amount of krausen starting to form when I took my sample this morning, and there was no airlock activity, noticeable amount of CO2, or any other externally visible signs of fermentation. I'll report it to the developers and see what they say.
 
I will say that there seems to be larger fluctuations at lower gravities. I saw this over the last couple of days, where it would bounce around a few points. My hefe is 4 days out and the Brewometer measures anywhere from 1.009 to 1.012 as I just watch it over the course of a few minutes. My temp has been rock accurate though.

Not sure if this is CO2 bubbles affecting the readings or just sensitivities in the circuitry. At the end of the day, what I really care about is that fermentation has finished.

Anyway, should it need an update, does anyone know how that is accomplished? OTA? Programming cable? Send it back?
 
Is it possible the section that bobs out of the wort is measuring the temp and the headspace really is that far off from the wort temp?
 
Hmmm... That's an interesting theory, but I really don't think so. First, there was no violent fermentation going on, so I'm not really sure why it would have been bobbing around very much at all. Second, the ambient temp of the garage was 65F this morning, while the fermentation chamber was set to 58. When I opened it up to check things out, it definitely felt cooler inside the chamber, not warmer, than the garage.

I was wondering if the accuracy might be a factor, but I don't think that could account for it either. I've got a 2 degree differential set on my ITC-1000. With the beer set to 58F, that means it will engage cooling if it gets to 60.1F. With the +/- 2 degree accuracy of the Brewometer, that means that if my beer reached 60.1 then it could have been reading it at 62.1F, but I saw temps as high as 74.

Also the fact that it jumped back down to 58 in a relatively short amount of time would seem to indicate the unit was just wrong as well.
 
I just wrote to the company about the gravity reading: I find it odd that it would almost steadily ramp up from 0.994 to 1.013 overnight, in tap water... I'm beginning to worry that either the temp correction of the gravity is wrong, or I have a faulty device. Maybe it's not as accurate in plain water?

I'll be brewing tonight, so I'll get to test it with real wort and fermentation, but we'll see what they answer.
 
I'll add to the temp issues. Mine seems to move a fair bit but seems to be consistently higher than the actual temp measured. Gravity readings seem reasonable so far, dropping a few points since I pitched yeast yesterday morning and now picking up steam. I don't care about temps since I have brewpi handling that regulation but it would be nice if they could solve these issues.
 
LBussy said:
Just outta curiosity: What if you have more than one? Are they identified in the app by color?
Click to expand...

Yes, it appears color is the differentiator. In some of the screenshots it shows different sets of metrics with different colors...

I just ordered one this morning to try out, a purple. Got a confirm by email but no shipping notice yet ;)
 
Well, unfortunately mine appears to have gone absolutely bonkers at this point. According to the data it's logged in the past 3 hours the gravity has jumped all over the place from 1.040 to 1.049, and the temp has fluctuated between 58F and 72F. Starting to have some trust issues with my unit.
 
drgonzo2k2 said:
Well, unfortunately mine appears to have gone absolutely bonkers at this point. According to the data it's logged in the past 3 hours the gravity has jumped all over the place from 1.040 to 1.049, and the temp has fluctuated between 58F and 72F. Starting to have some trust issues with my unit.
Click to expand...


Starting?!? Sounds like no doubt it's funked. My bet is the temp swings are what is causing your gravity changes, but only they can confirm/fix. I would press them for a replacement.

Such is the case with new hardware/software. They can test it all they want in their lab, but that's not 99% of monkeys. The real measure of their worth will be demonstrated by how they acquire, learn, communicate, remedy, and improve. Keep us informed.
 
pepindavid said:
I just wrote to the company about the gravity reading: I find it odd that it would almost steadily ramp up from 0.994 to 1.013 overnight, in tap water... I'm beginning to worry that either the temp correction of the gravity is wrong, or I have a faulty device. Maybe it's not as accurate in plain water?

I'll be brewing tonight, so I'll get to test it with real wort and fermentation, but we'll see what they answer.
Click to expand...


That definitely isn't right. Pull it out and see if it's taking on water. That would certainly change the readings, although it would go the other way now that I think about it. Anyway it's still way wrong.
 
BrunDog said:
Starting?!? Sounds like no doubt it's funked. My bet is the temp swings are what is causing your gravity changes, but only they can confirm/fix.
Click to expand...
Could be, although 14 degrees and 0.009 points don't line up. Should be interesting to see how this all bears out.

Bad battery maybe? If these are sourced overseas that would be the one easy/likely thing to check.
 
BrunDog said:
That definitely isn't right. Pull it out and see if it's taking on water. That would certainly change the readings, although it would go the other way now that I think about it. Anyway it's still way wrong.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately I am at work, but I'll take it as soon as I get home... Once I drop it in my fermenter tonight, though, It'll stay there until bottling time... I hope they answer me before I do that...

Being in Canada, this thing was a bit pricey (with the exchange rate and the international shipping) to be a Beta tester, but hey, if it works, it'll be cool..! :)
 
FYI - I've heard back from one of the developers, and he's assured me they are looking into it and have been in contact with other folks from here that have reached out. So far today mine seems to go a bit bonkers, then fix itself and read correctly again, only to go back to being bonkers for a bit. I'll let you know if I hear back any concrete answers from them.

Either way, I'm going to leave it in my fermenter until it's time to keg the beer, as one of the reasons for buying it in the first place was never having to open the fermenter to take a sample, and I already had to do that once this morning to verify the temperature.
 
pepindavid said:
Being in Canada, this thing was a bit pricey (with the exchange rate and the international shipping) to be a Beta tester, but hey, if it works, it'll be cool..! :)
Click to expand...

I am thinking of ordering one myself. What was the final price after shipping and exchange?
 
ChrisL_ said:
What was the final price after shipping and exchange?
Click to expand...

A hefty 188.19 $CDN (April 4 exchange rate).

At least, they seem prepared to help : I received a reply from them. They are suspecting a leak (even if units are tested for leaks), and are prepared to send me another unit.

I'll keep you posted!
 
Per my post earlier about small SG fluctuations, I gave the fermenter a couple of raps, and after a minute, the SG settled a touch lower and has been more consistent (mind you, a 2-3 point swing was hardly a deal breaker). So maybe it had some bubbles on it that affected the reading. My beer is down to 1.009 (now 4 days completed). I assume it will only go another couple of points. Then I will let it rest a bit for cleanup. Then it will go into secondary onto some ginger and lemon for finishing flavor. Not sure if the Brewometer will go into the secondary.
 
I am so excited for this product because I never check SG after it goes into the fermenter because I hate taking the lid off, and I'm kind of lazy about it in general. I appreciate everyone posting their experiences so far to help with the decision to buy or to start taking samples using the port in my new brew bucket once I start using it, also to help me hone in on actual ferm temp since I insulate the probe against the side and take a degree or two off the set temp as a gustimate to account for actual internal ferm temp. Anyone who does not use a thermowell have any input on temp per the brewometer vs side of the bucket?
 
I decided I couldn't wait for an API to be released, so I dug into it with a bluetooth dongle on a pi and found the pertinent points if anyone is interested.

I used hcitool lescan to find the broadcasted MAC of the device (aptly named "Brew")
Then I connected to the device with gatttool -b <MACAddress> -I
Type connect and a green light should start pulsing on the device if you successfully connected.

These are raw values coming off the device, so calibration would need to be handled by your own math.

Battery Level 0x0048 % in hex
Temp F 0x0037 temp in hex
Tilt Sensor 0x003b hex

Type char-read-hnd 0x003b (etc) to get the appropriate values.

I let the app do the heavy lifting and plotted the following points
13=1.000
3d=1.042
5e=1.075
72=1.095

Rough formula (observed)
Convert Hex to Decimal (3d = 61)
Take decimal - 19 (61 - 19 = 42)
Divide by 1000 + 1 (42/1000 + 1 = 1.042)

When I get some more time I'll try and write up a complete how-to, but if you are already familiar with linux this should be cake from here.

Cheers,

Joe


***Edit - Also, did anyone else notice the card is a Bean? https://punchthrough.com/bean***
 
Last edited:
Nice work!

That's great that it's sending out it's battery level. I hope they include that in an app update. I was just wondering today how you would know it's close to dead, and that it would suck if the battery died while it was in your beer.
 
Quick update: when I got back home, "swirling" the device in the fermenter made the reading go back to normal (uncalibrated: 0.994). It was kind of "stuck" the side of the plastic fermenter, so maybe it was affecting the reading. I tried in another jug of water, and it was reading fine, stable.

In the end, I dumped in the wort I brewed yesterday (at around 10:30PM). It is floating nicely in the wort (not stuck to the side), and the reading is stable and seems accurate (I'll need to better calibrate it, but for now, I'm more concerned about stability than pinpoint accuracy).

Now, this morning, I pressed a wrong button and it caused my Android phone to install an update... and I had to leave for work..! Soooo... I'll see tonight if it still reads properly (it'll likely be fermenting nicely at that point, as there were early signs this morning).

I'll keep you posted!
 
Mine is expected to be delivered on Thur. I am thinking of brewing a RIS this weekend so it will interesting to use this for the primary.
 
Heard back from the developer last night, and they are going to send me a new unit and a return label for the one that seems to be having problems currently. They also assured me that they stand behind their product and will happily replace or refund any unit that people are not happy with.
 
So, the device is basically measuring the tilt of the device (through an accelerometer?), and then uses a calculation to determine what this "tilt level" corresponds to in terms of gravity? If that's the case, then having mine kind of stuck to the side of the fermenter (almost "rubber to plastic") could explain why the readings were off.
 
pepindavid said:
So, the device is basically measuring the tilt of the device (through an accelerometer?), and then uses a calculation to determine what this "tilt level" corresponds to in terms of gravity? If that's the case, then having mine kind of stuck to the side of the fermenter (almost "rubber to plastic") could explain why the readings were off.
Click to expand...

Interesting...... If that is the case then fermentation activity could and should effect the reading.
 
"What does this mean!? It's bright and vivid!"
https://youtu.be/OQSNhk5ICTI?t=1m8s


I decided I couldn't wait for an API to be released, so I dug into it with a bluetooth dongle on a pi and found the pertinent points if anyone is interested.

I used hcitool lescan to find the broadcasted MAC of the device (aptly named "Brew")
Then I connected to the device with hatttool -b <MACAddress> -I
Type connect and a green light should start pulsing on the device if you successfully connected.

These are raw values coming off the device, so calibration would need to be handled by your own math.

Battery Level 0x0048 % in hex
Temp F 0x0037 temp in hex
Tilt Sensor 0x003b hex

Type char-read-hnd 0x003b (etc) to get the appropriate values.

I let the app do the heavy lifting and plotted the following points
13=1.000
3d=1.042
5e=1.075
72=1.095

Rough formula (observed)
Convert Hex to Decimal (3d = 61)
Take decimal - 19 (61 - 19 = 42)
Divide by 1000 + 1 (42/1000 + 1 = 1.042)

When I get some more time I'll try and write up a complete how-to, but if you are already familiar with linux this should be cake from here.

Cheers,

Joe


***Edit - Also, did anyone else notice the card is a Bean? https://punchthrough.com/bean***[/quote]
 
RiverCityBrewer said:
***Edit - Also, did anyone else notice the card is a Bean? https://punchthrough.com/bean***
Click to expand...

And that the Bean's are totally sold out at the moment, I have a feeling they all got gobbled up by the Brewometer folks.

Pretty cool that you can re-program it wirelessly, I would suppose the Brewometer guys might be able to issue updates for the actual hardware then as well as the app.
 
pepindavid said:
So, the device is basically measuring the tilt of the device (through an accelerometer?), and then uses a calculation to determine what this "tilt level" corresponds to in terms of gravity? If that's the case, then having mine kind of stuck to the side of the fermenter (almost "rubber to plastic") could explain why the readings were off.
Click to expand...


Yes, it works on its tilt angle. It has air and weights in it and it works like a standard hydrometer: higher density liquid means more buoyancy. So any interference will affect the angle, just like a standard hydrometer will misread when stuck by adhesion to the side of a sample jar.

If you look above, I had a pretty violent fermentation, and this thing did great. Yes there are a couple of minor SG variations as it as gotten near the end of primary, but it has proven it's worth to me. I am a fan!
 
Guys, keep reporting your issues here and to the manufacturer. I have been involved with multiple new projects and these are the time they want your feedback and issues the most. Hopefully this is the time they will step up and fix the issues, no questions asked. If they do this, learn from their mistakes, this IS the type of product that will go big for them. Let's help then help is all. Give them your money, expect everything in return.
 
I'm curious if anyone is using multiple Brewometers and if one iOS/Android application instance can handle all Brewometers simultaneously? I've been extremely happy with the first I bought. In fact I've ordered a cheap Android 5.1 tablet with Bluetooth 4.0 to do continuous logging. For someone who has multiple batches going simultaneously, that one feature can save me over an hour of monitoring per batch.
 
Yes, one receiving device can handle all of your Brewometers, provided you order different colors. I'm not sure what happens if you have two of the same color.
 
BrunDog said:
I wonder if continuous logging causes the battery to run down faster? And if so, by how much?
Click to expand...

My guess is probably not... the app appears to continuously poll the device anyway, so data logging at a faster rate from the app side would not make me think it would wear down the battery any faster. I plan on polling without the app every few minutes or so, so I'm thinking I can probably get more mileage out of the battery.
 
BrunDog said:
No, I mean what would the difference to the Brewometer battery be between a device permanently connected and getting constant updates vs. grabbing an update just one per day?
Click to expand...

Sorry I misunderstood. You are correct in your assumption and I think the battery life increase by decreasing the scan rate would be quite significant. I did some packet scans when the app connects to the device, and it looks like the device is responding to a poll command every half to one second. Seems excessive to me considering that the response time of moving the device and the tilt sensor recalculate is around 5-10 seconds. I did a scan while letting the device just sit idle without the app connected and it advertised itself once over a 3 minute span. If the poll rate is decreased by even a little, I think battery life could be greatly increased.

Cheers,

Joe
 
RiverCityBrewer said:
Sorry I misunderstood. You are correct in your assumption and I think the battery life increase by decreasing the scan rate would be quite significant. I did some packet scans when the app connects to the device, and it looks like the device is responding to a poll command every half to one second. Seems excessive to me considering that the response time of moving the device and the tilt sensor recalculate is around 5-10 seconds. I did a scan while letting the device just sit idle without the app connected and it advertised itself once over a 3 minute span. If the poll rate is decreased by even a little, I think battery life could be greatly increased.

Cheers,

Joe
Click to expand...

Besides being able to view the battery life (always good to know before dropping it into the fermenter!), I thought having the ability to change the polling times would be awesome. Now the real question is the app initiating the poll or is the Brewometer set to send the data every .5 seconds? Hopefully the app does the polling, otherwise it would probably require a firmware upgrade to enable that functionality.
 
I am not sure why the app shows the data received about every half second but the unit updates every 10. Maybe that's just the way the module communicates. Anyway I am sure they will optimize things if needed over time. Especially the battery info.

I would also like to see graphics for the update being current (like a color coded icon) and for the signal strength. But again, all in due time I am sure. They are probably busy with the mad rush and initial issues right now.
 

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