Brewing with Wormwood

[devaspawn]

I suspect that your roommate is getting the americanized version of absynthe. I believe if you look on the bottle you will see nothing about thujome. It's still illegal in this country. Sorry...

 

[scox80]

I suspect that your roommate is getting the americanized version of absynthe. I believe if you look on the bottle you will see nothing about thujome. It's still illegal in this country. Sorry...

Sorry buddy but you are misinformed.....fist of all it's Thujone.....Thujone isn't illegal it's regulated to a certain amount...if you buy a bottle Lucid it just so happens that you can look on the bottle and see something about Thujone. Oh yeah you can get Lucid at bevmo......in 2007 the FDA started to regulate Thujone more as a poison and not as a drug. They advise against ingestion which is why they regulate it.

 

[devaspawn]

Well I stand corrected on two counts it would seem...an 'n' instead of an 'm' and apparently Lucid does have the slightest hint of thujone in it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/29/business/yourmoney/29goods.html?_r=3&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

It's still illegal to sell or produce full thujone strength absinthe in this country but you can get a weakened version called "lucid." I'd still rather get the real deal from a place like Green Fairy, though.

 

[morrighu]

Real wormwood is one of those plants that was used "in olden times" and should be used only with extreme caution. If you're curious about using herbs in brewing, I'd strongly recommend that you get a copy of the Handbook of Injurious and Poisonous Plants. Wormwood is listed. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0387312684/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20.

The most active ingredients in wormwood are thujones and they are toxic to the central nervous system. They're called wormwood because they have traditionally been used to kill intestinal parasites. In case you don't know, intestinal parasites are quite difficult to kill. It takes something pretty toxic to kill them.

Since you're dealing a herb grown in unknown conditions, harvested in an unknown matter, processed for drying by unknown methods, and likely not stored properly. All of these things have an impact on the potency and toxicity of herbs. Unless you plan to have it titrated for thujone content in your final brew, I'd leave the wormwood alone.

2 cents,

M.

 

[steve123]

Ok I got lazy and didn't read the whole thread....


Wormwood, Bod Myrtle, Mugwort, Spruce and Juniper are things that have been used in brewing prior to the German Beer Purity Laws, which made it illegal to use ANYTHING as a bittering agent accept hops. Actually doing some research pilsners were originally bittered with Hensbane(thought to be the poison that Romeo took in Romeo and Juliet)

With the shortage and all we've bene trying to cut back on hops, and talked about a few ideas using these herbs in place of hops. At $5.00 a pound wormwood is much cheaper then well....any hops at this time. And I have seen a lot of people saying they have been using or looking at using some of these herbs also, actually saw someone talking about a Wormwood Porter that won a Local homebrew Contest.

So that on top of illegal distillation is the reason you see some of these on homebrew sites.

 

[NikolausXX]

Hopefully I can add some insight to the wormwood discussion. Having drank several commercial, and "prototype" distilled absinthes. The wormwood in the absinthe is distilled. It does not cause any hallucinations and "tripping" effects that the anti wormwood people will tell you. I have also made teas with wormwood. Wormwood is VERY bitter. In a simple tea, a mixture of some herbs, and teas, you can easily overdue the bitterness in a pot of tea, .5-1 litre. So if you put this in your brew dont over do it. It is VERY bitter. As far as poisoning yourself, I wouldnt worry so much about that. I have drank a bunch of absinthe, probably 3 or 4 comercial bottles over time, and several teas with wormwood. Have also smoked wormwood and wormwood resin (both very harsh) and it in no way intoxicates you. At most the effect it gives you is clarity, and soberness. Just my 2 cents worth. Having many experiances with a couple varieties of wormwoods and absinthes made to true recipes, not that czech crap you light on fire.

On that note, I give 2 thumbs up to absinthe other than the price, and if you buy it, research before hand, there is alot of knockoff crap that will turn you off to the real deal. As for making teas, and smoking the stuff, stay away. As for putting it in my beer, I wouldnt do it myself, but if someone did research and came up with a way I would. I would say start with 1 tablespoon per 5 gallon, because the stuff is SO BITTER.

 

[ScottUV]

Got info on Salvia Divinorim from that site! I want to eventally make a Salvia brew, when I figure out how.

This has to be one of the worst ideas i've ever heard of. Salvia Divinorum has an awful taste. It doesn't really taste like anything... just a "leaf" taste to it. Also, the main chemicals in Salvia can't be absorbed when ingested. Thirdly, alcohol and any other drugs is generally a bad idea, except for maybe nicotine. Salvia Divinorum is a very powerful drug and should not be messed with.

 

[Parker36]

1) Salvia tastes like ass, but it did give us this:

2) They did have a beer at GABF that had wormword in it. It think it was a Belgian Golden Strong called Wormy Wood or something like that. It was pretty good, but I can't say that I was frolicking around in a meadow with the easter bunny, Mrs. Claus and Tom Brokaw, either.

And now if you'll excuse me, I have to go to space now.

 

[jrakich87]

HAHAHAHA he freaks out at the cat, priceless.

 

[Chriso]

LMFAO. That video is priceless. Now excuse me. I have to go to space now.

 

[MoRoToRiUm]

It is legal to import a SEALED bottle as a collectible (I've researched this topic before). The thujone content is what does most of the work, the wormwood mostly relaxes the nervous system, and depending on the content of both of these in the absinthe is hallucinogenic (If it is real absinth, say the good stuff from Germany/Czechoslovakia, two shots and you're legally insane).

Anything made in America, or purchased at a retail store, has a lot lower alcohol content as well as no thujone. I'm not sure enough on the kits which are available on foreign sites; they have shipping to the US, but I imagine it would be frowned upon by customs.

The Green Fairy kits (like http://www.homebrewing.org/Green-Devil-Absinthe-Kit_p_21-952.html) include the wormwood, but no thujone. It is equivalent to the fake 'absente' you can purchase at some liquor stores (although you can probably yield a higher alcohol content). No thujone, no hallucinogenic affects. Good if you like black licorice flavored liquor.

 

[Teddi Brewski]

Um, I think some people are a little confused here, talking about thujone and wormwood as two different things. As a PHD in Food/Beverage Chemistry, I can inform you that the wormwood is the source of the thujone, ie, the thujone content is directly proportional to the wormwood.

 

[Anbrew]

The absinthe you purchase in American is legit.

Any hallucinagenic effects of absinthe are of the placebo/smoke & mirrors kind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thujone

 

[NikolausXX]

It is legal to import a SEALED bottle as a collectible (I've researched this topic before). The thujone content is what does most of the work, the wormwood mostly relaxes the nervous system, and depending on the content of both of these in the absinthe is hallucinogenic (If it is real absinth, say the good stuff from Germany/Czechoslovakia, two shots and you're legally insane).

Anything made in America, or purchased at a retail store, has a lot lower alcohol content as well as no thujone. I'm not sure enough on the kits which are available on foreign sites; they have shipping to the US, but I imagine it would be frowned upon by customs.

The Green Fairy kits (like Green Devil Absinthe Kit) include the wormwood, but no thujone. It is equivalent to the fake 'absente' you can purchase at some liquor stores (although you can probably yield a higher alcohol content). No thujone, no hallucinogenic affects. Good if you like black licorice flavored liquor.

There is no Hallucinogenic effect to even PRE BAN absinthe from over 100 years ago. It was a hoax by the failing french wine industry to kill the popularity of absinthe. Having tried several European absinthe, and USA varieties, I can say there is no effect. Thujone in any capicity cannot give you hallucinations. As I posted earlier, I have had high thujone content wormwood tea, and smoked the wormwood. Also have smoked wormwood resin. I would suggest researching the subject on wormwood society a known reputable forum on absinthe and wormwood. And anyone who tells you that the Czech absinthe is tradionial is full of crap. It is pretty much everclear macerated with wormwood. Taste like hell and is not absinthe other than in name only. As of this year there is REAL absinthe sold here in the USA. By new years, we will have several European absinthes available as laws have been made to conform withe euro laws here. Just takes some time for the distillers to get there labels approved.

 

[bernerbrau]

From all the reading I've done on Absinthe, and from the couple times I've tried it (a good buddy smuggled some back stateside from the Czech Republic), I'm pretty sure there's so much alcohol in there that you'll be passed out or dead before you've consumed enough wormwood to get get to the "secondary" effects.

In other words, it's just plain old booze in Absinthe that makes you goofy

 

[NikolausXX]

If you want to hallucinate legally, go to your local head shop and drop 20 bucks on some salvia. 3 hits of 10x or so, and you will be in another world, on the ground drooling on the floor, but you will the most hallucinating trip you ever experienced. I do not recommend nor will I ever do it again. But if your looking to hallucinate, absinthe is not your answer. And absinthe is not takin in shots either. at 140 proof, that would be a killer shot. You are supposed to take a shot, and mix it with 3 parts ice water, then sip it. Sorry for rant, I cant stand the hype and bs put out there. In my state there trying to classify malt beverages as distilled beverages, which to me is BS. They say they need to make the mikes hard, and smirnoff ice and such more expensive so kids dont buy it. Doesnt the law that says you have to be 21 make it so kids dont buy it? So this just got me going even more.

 

[Okiebrewer]

I know but I tried salvia a few times. It was crazy. I was in another world for what felt like hours and it was only about 2-3 minutes of me passed out. I have a video but it looks really lame. I since have tried to find more salvia but none of it is strong enough to do anything. Def crazy I can't believe it's legal.

 

[KyleWolf]

There is no Hallucinogenic effect to even PRE BAN absinthe from over 100 years ago. It was a hoax by the failing french wine industry to kill the popularity of absinthe. Having tried several European absinthe, and USA varieties, I can say there is no effect. Thujone in any capicity cannot give you hallucinations. As I posted earlier, I have had high thujone content wormwood tea, and smoked the wormwood. Also have smoked wormwood resin. I would suggest researching the subject on wormwood society a known reputable forum on absinthe and wormwood. And anyone who tells you that the Czech absinthe is tradionial is full of crap. It is pretty much everclear macerated with wormwood. Taste like hell and is not absinthe other than in name only. As of this year there is REAL absinthe sold here in the USA. By new years, we will have several European absinthes available as laws have been made to conform withe euro laws here. Just takes some time for the distillers to get there labels approved.

Huh, I don't doubt you, I always just assumed the hallucinogenic effect was caused by unsafe distilling techniques common in the late 19th/early 20th centuries...similar to why bath tub gin "would make you go blind", toxins and poor techniques that are well beyond the worries or many modern day distilleries.

also, while it is very bitter, I enjoy the anise taste. and I said anise, not anus...I will nip that little joke in the bud right now lol

 

[goose1873]

Wormwood is very, very bitter and that could be attractive to some brewers.

The amount needed to produce an absinth-like elixir would make a beer utterly disgusting...I believe it needs to be soaked in a high concentration of alcohol (grain/vodka) to produce its "fairy-like" properties...

 

[Cheaton]

It has been recently proven that there are no "hallucinagenic" properties to wormwood. It's just an herb like any other herb. A show I watched on Discovery stated that the likely culprit to the absithne hallucination stories was people making low quality absinthe, cheaping out on the herbs that turn it green, and using copper sulphate, which is a highly toxic supstance, for color. Absinthe is no more hallucinagenic, or "drug" like than Jagermeister.

 

[HBHoss]

Wormwood Ale

4 lb malt extract
1 lb raw wildflower honey
1/2 oz wormwood
4 gallons water
yeast

Bring water to a boil and add wormwood and let simmer for 1 hour. When cooled to 160 F., strain over malt extract and honey in fermenting vessel. Cool to 70 F. and add yeast. Allow to ferment about 1 week. Rack to keg or bottles and carbonate.

Paraphrased from the book "Sacred and Herbal Healing Beers" by Stephen Harrod Buhner.

 

[Teromous]

I know what absinthe is I was just wondering why they would have it in the additives section in midwestsupplies if you couldnt brew with it. Does anybody know what the deal is?

It was legalized in 2007, for drinks containing less than 10ppm. The FDA considers it to be thujone free at that point.

Edit: Sorry I didn't notice this thread had gone to 9 pages...this was probably already pointed out but I'll leave it here in case it was not....I need to stop drinking and reading HBT haha

 

[HopHeadWilly]

Last week I did a saison style ale but used 1oz wormwood for bittering instead of hops (I did use a couple ozs hops for flav & aroma). Just transferred it over to secondary and it's undrinkably bitter!! I know it should soften with age, but I was thinking about dumping 2 or 3 lbs of honey into secondary now and let her ferment again for a few weeks. Then bottle and age for a month. I figure the honey's sweetness and increased alcohol will help balance the bitter. Any thoughts? Oh, I also added heather tips & flowers last 5 min of boil and dry steeping 1oz heater too. Not your average brew....

 

[mixedbrewer]

Freedom Vs Wormwood... this trial is about to begin.