Brewing with Rye

[z-bob]

What's a good percentage of rye to use?

I know rye is pretty assertive, also it's gummy. Would 20% be enough for a kinda roggenbier? I'm working on a recipe; currently it's about 6.5% CaraRye and 13.5% rye flour. (the rest is mostly pils and a little debittered black for color) I will cook the rye flour first, then do a simple infusion mash. Lightly hop with Mount Hood, and ferment with either a Bavarian wheat yeast or kveik yeast -- depending on whether the wheat yeast I'm trying to culture takes off or not. If I end up using the kveik yeast, I will use more hops.

 

[deadwolfbones]

I used 18% rye malt in a recent saison/Belgian pale, and I feel like that was the sweet spot in terms of flavor. It was also the best beer I've made in terms of head retention and body.

 

[thehaze]

I've used up to 50% Rye malt and did not perceive it as assertive, nor was it spicy or peppery as everyone thinks apparently.

Rye in beer has more of an earthy flavour. I never smelled or tasted anything remotely spicy. This was Weyermann Rye malt. I've used Weyermann CaraRye and Chocolate Rye. Neither is spicy, but are definitely very tasty, and especially the Chocolate Rye, which is one of the best roasted malts out there.

 

[BassBabiesBeer]

I've used up to 50% Rye malt and did not perceive it as assertive, nor was it spicy or peppery as everyone thinks apparently.

Rye in beer has more of an earthy flavour. I never smelled or tasted anything remotely spicy. This was Weyermann Rye malt. I've used Weyermann CaraRye and Chocolate Rye. Neither is spicy, but are definitely very tasty, and especially the Chocolate Rye, which is one of the best roasted malts out there.

my perception of rye in terms of flavor is similar to yours but I think "spicy" comes into use because its different and nuanced. Most malts are fairly straightforward in character, and how you use them brings them out. Rye just has a unique character, and spiced may be the word people are looking for when spicy is the word used.

 

[DownHillonWater]

I make a rye Ale with about 45% Rye malt a couple times /year. The "rye character" of the resulting beer is highly dependent on yeast. A highly attenuating yeast Wy1098 Whitbread Dry completely removes rye flavors. Lower attenuation from Wy1272 Amer Ale II and Wy1335 Brit Ale II produce a great rye flavor that can be fairly characterized as spicy. The two are a little different and I especially like 1335. I mash with 1 lb of rice hulls for a 6 gallon fermentation and have no issue with stuck mashes. Moderate IBUs (20-30) are best to bring out the rye character. My friends love it.

 

[z-bob]

I bought a couple of pounds of organic rolled rye flakes at one of the local hippy grocery stores. 99¢ a pound. I'm pretty sure they can be dumped right into the mash without cooking them first (the rye flakes, not the hippies) But would it be better to mix them with the whole malt and run them through the mill?

 

[brownni5]

I bought a couple of pounds of organic rolled rye flakes at one of the local hippy grocery stores. 99¢ a pound. I'm pretty sure they can be dumped right into the mash without cooking them first (the rye flakes, not the hippies) But would it be better to mix them with the whole malt and run them through the mill?

Nope, right in the mash - do it all the time. Hippies have to be run through the mill.

 

[JimRausch]

and 13.5% rye flour.

This would be where the gumminess will come from. I'd add a couple handfuls of rice hulls.
Another idea instead of adding flour as is, make a rye bread out of it and add that. I do something similar to 'The Tsar's Kvass' recipe that was in Zymurgy several years ago. Add 2 loaves of homemade rye bread chunked up in the mash. But I do add rice hulls to the mash.....

 

[z-bob]

This would be where the gumminess will come from. I'd add a couple handfuls of rice hulls.
Another idea instead of adding flour as is, make a rye bread out of it and add that. I do something similar to 'The Tsar's Kvass' recipe that was in Zymurgy several years ago. Add 2 loaves of homemade rye bread chunked up in the mash. But I do add rice hulls to the mash.....

Someday I'm going to make beer using bread from the thrift store. But not this time.

I found some cheap flaked rye; I will use that in this beer (don't have to cook it like I would flour) and save the flour for baking. Thanks.

 

[mongoose33]

I do a Rye Ale with this grain bill:

11# Maris Otter
3" Rye Malt
7 oz Choc Wheat
4 oz Flaked Rye
Scoop of Rice Hulls

.5 oz Columbus 60 minutes
.5 oz Columbus 20 minutes
1 oz Styrian Celeia 10 min

Wyeast 2112 or WLP810 (California Lager Yeast)

Mash 149. Ferment 63 degrees. OG 1.063, FG 1.013, 6.5% ABV.

 

[Jako]

I've used up to 50% Rye malt and did not perceive it as assertive, nor was it spicy or peppery as everyone thinks apparently.

Rye in beer has more of an earthy flavour. I never smelled or tasted anything remotely spicy. This was Weyermann Rye malt. I've used Weyermann CaraRye and Chocolate Rye. Neither is spicy, but are definitely very tasty, and especially the Chocolate Rye, which is one of the best roasted malts out there.

the black IPA in our sig sounds amazing. would you mind sharing the recipe?

 

[thehaze]

87.5% Simpsons Maris Otter
6.25% Thomas Fawcett Roasted Rye
6.25% Thomas Fawcett Roasted Wheat

I mashed at 65C/149F for 75 minutes. If you cannot find Bramling Cross, german grown Brewers Gold will work just as well.

( The SRM of the wort would've been around 30-ish, but I wanted it darker, so I used a bit of Black Liquid Extra *adds colour and nothing else and it's not fermentable* from TheMaltMiller UK to darken the wort - last 10 minutes )
28 gr = 1 oz
20 gr Enigma 30 minutes
15 gr Bramling Cross 15 minutes
15 gr Bramling Cross 10 minutes
15 gr Bramling Cross 5 minutes
15 gr Bramling Cross 1 minutes
80 gr Enigma Whirlpool
140 gr Bramling Cross Whirlpool
100 gr Citra Dry hopping
100 gr Enigma Dry hopping

Yeast: Omega Hornindal
OG: 1.060
FG: 1.013
ABV: 6%
IBU: 55 ( I ended up with 6 gal of beer - I usually shoot for this amunt and a bit more as I want to maximize the capacity of my Grainfather )

Adding some dextrose can help boost the ABV and dry out the beer. Mash water profile looked something like this: Ca: 50 ppm / Mg: 3 ppm / Na: 3 ppm / Cl: 25 ppm / SO4: 75 ppm. Mash pH was 5.4 after 30 minutes without anyacid or baking soda added. So the roasted malts used are acidic, but not as much as Black/Roasted Barley/Chocolate.

The beer is very good: lots of dark brown foam, good lacing, aroma is a nice blend of unsweetened chocolate/cocoa beans, slightly fruity and citrussy. Very smooth for 55 IBUs and has a soft mouthfeel, believe it or not. It's what I would call a Cascadian Dark Ale, giving that the roasted malts blend nicely with the hops, without tasting like a dark coloured IPA. There is no coffee in the aroma and taste, and it does not present any of the slighly acrid, sharp roasted barley/chocolate malt traits you usually get.

 

[Jako]

87.5% Simpsons Maris Otter
6.25% Thomas Fawcett Roasted Rye
6.25% Thomas Fawcett Roasted Wheat

I mashed at 65C/149F for 75 minutes. If you cannot find Bramling Cross, german grown Brewers Gold will work just as well.

( The SRM of the wort would've been around 30-ish, but I wanted it darker, so I used a bit of Black Liquid Extra *adds colour and nothing else and it's not fermentable* from TheMaltMiller UK to darken the wort - last 10 minutes )
28 gr = 1 oz
20 gr Enigma 30 minutes
15 gr Bramling Cross 15 minutes
15 gr Bramling Cross 10 minutes
15 gr Bramling Cross 5 minutes
15 gr Bramling Cross 1 minutes
80 gr Enigma Whirlpool
140 gr Bramling Cross Whirlpool
100 gr Citra Dry hopping
100 gr Enigma Dry hopping

Yeast: Omega Hornindal
OG: 1.060
FG: 1.013
ABV: 6%
IBU: 55 ( I ended up with 6 gal of beer - I usually shoot for this amunt and a bit more as I want to maximize the capacity of my Grainfather )

Adding some dextrose can help boost the ABV and dry out the beer. Mash water profile looked something like this: Ca: 50 ppm / Mg: 3 ppm / Na: 3 ppm / Cl: 25 ppm / SO4: 75 ppm. Mash pH was 5.4 after 30 minutes without anyacid or baking soda added. So the roasted malts used are acidic, but not as much as Black/Roasted Barley/Chocolate.

The beer is very good: lots of dark brown foam, good lacing, aroma is a nice blend of unsweetened chocolate/cocoa beans, slightly fruity and citrussy. Very smooth for 55 IBUs and has a soft mouthfeel, believe it or not. It's what I would call a Cascadian Dark Ale, giving that the roasted malts blend nicely with the hops, without tasting like a dark coloured IPA. There is no coffee in the aroma and taste, and it does not present any of the slighly acrid, sharp roasted barley/chocolate malt traits you usually get.

sorry for the thread jack! i hope you will forgive me.

You are awesome! Bramling cross has to be my favorite hop as well as the Black IPA style. this recipe looks really well thought out, i just started to ferment a beer with Imperal Kveiking that i will recycle for this.

I don't anything about black malt extract. i wonder if i could steep some dehusked black malt and add that last 10 min. the hops i already know i will have to order online. my LBHS no longer carries Bramling Cross . I plan to take a few weeks off reset my gear then this will the first beer i brew up.

Okay back on topic now...

 

[z-bob]

Here's my recipe. Notice that it's 4 gallons, not 5:

Title: Amber Rye Ale
Brew Method: BIAB
Style Name: American Amber Ale
Boil Time: 45 min
Batch Size: 4 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 5 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.041
Efficiency: 75% (brew house)

Original Gravity: 1.053
Final Gravity: 1.010
ABV (standard): 5.65%
IBU (tinseth): 33.24
SRM (morey): 11.2
Mash pH: 5.48

6 lb - Pale Ale (79.7%)
1 lb - Flaked Rye (13.3%)
0.5 lb - CaraRye (6.6%)
0.5 oz - Black Patent (0.4%)

0.5 oz - Nugget, Type: Pellet, AA: 14, Use: Boil for 30 min, IBU: 25.51
1 oz - Goldings, Type: Pellet, AA: 4.5, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 7.74

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Infusion, Temp: 150 F, Time: 60 min, Amount: 4 gal
2) Sparge, Temp: 120 F, Amount: 2 gal

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
4 ml - Phosphoric acid, Time: 60 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Mash

YEAST:
Omega Yeast Labs - Voss Kveik OYL-061
Starter: Yes
Form: Liquid
Fermentation Temp: 80 F

Generated by Brewer's Friend - https://www.brewersfriend.com/
Recipe Last Updated: 2019-08-04 19:10 UTC

I also have some German wheat yeast that I cultured from a couple bottles of Schell's Hefeweizen, I might use that and a little lower fermentation temperature. But the Voss yeast slurry has been in my fridge for a few months and I need to revive it.

 

[BrewMan13]

I've used up to 50% Rye malt and did not perceive it as assertive, nor was it spicy or peppery as everyone thinks apparently.

Rye in beer has more of an earthy flavour. I never smelled or tasted anything remotely spicy. This was Weyermann Rye malt. I've used Weyermann CaraRye and Chocolate Rye. Neither is spicy, but are definitely very tasty, and especially the Chocolate Rye, which is one of the best roasted malts out there.

THANK YOU!! My experience exactly, one of my biggest brewing pet peeves is when people call rye spicy - earthy is MUCH more accurate. I once did a 100% rye beer just to see if it could be done, and while the beer was terrible, it wasn't in the least bit spicy.

 

[ProblemChild]

I've used up to 50% Rye malt and did not perceive it as assertive, nor was it spicy or peppery as everyone thinks apparently.

Rye in beer has more of an earthy flavour. I never smelled or tasted anything remotely spicy. This was Weyermann Rye malt. I've used Weyermann CaraRye and Chocolate Rye. Neither is spicy, but are definitely very tasty, and especially the Chocolate Rye, which is one of the best roasted malts out there.

Have not used Chocolate Rye and have wondered about it. That little tid-bit is a great to find out. Love rye to begin with and that may be part of the solution to that little something I find missing.