Brewing tomorrow help with recipe!

[beercentrist]

Hello all,

I'll be brewing with some friends tomorrow (one a beginner like me, one who's brewed before), but I need help figuring out the rest of this recipe.

Also, I have a plastic bucket of LME that was poured from a spigot thing and sealed, then stored at room temp in a dark place since August...I think I smelled soy or something when I opened it up today, but is that just me being paranoid?

I froze the hops and the crushed grains in the freezer since the same date as well, and have some Irish moss sitting around, along with the Nielsen-Massey extract...Am I good to go?

Rogue Chocolate Stout

Malt/Grain: 1/2 lb Crystal 120L, 1/2lb Chocolate, 1/4lb Roasted Barley, 1/2lb Flaked Oats

Liquid Malt Extract: 7.5 Light
Dry Malt Extract: (blank)

Hops for Bittering (60 minutes)
1 oz Cascade

Hops for Flavor (15 minutes)
1 oz Cascade

Hops for Finishing/Aroma (5 minutes)
1 oz Cascade

Yeast: Pacman

Beginning Hydrometer Reading: (blank)
Dry Hops: (blank)
Ending Hydrometer Reading: (blank) ABV

Other Ingredients: Add 1.5 oz Chocolate Extract at bottling time (or into secondary)

 

[Wig]

Maybe it is just me, but cascade in a stout does not sound like a good time. But whatever flys your flag.

The crystal, barley and chocolate can be steeped for flavor. I think the flaked oats can be steeped with the rest, but i am not sure on it. You may need to mash it with soem some pale malt for enzymes. Check on how to handle it. If you do have to mash (and you have access to the malt) it is not very difficult, look for deathbrewers easy partial mash technique. Oh here it is https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-partial-mash-brewing-pics-75231/

The OG does not seem to big, but is the yeast viable/ is it to old? A starter would be great, but if you are brewing tomorrow, then it is a bit late. Expect some longer than normal lag time after pitching. What is the expiration date?

I got a bucket of liquid malt too, I will be using tomorrow. Any 'spots' will get spooned out, and the rest will go in! If you are new to brewing, do you know what liquid malt is supposed to smell like? If it looks good and does not smell rancid, I'd go with it.

In the future, I'd say do not freeaze your grains. A cool dry place is optimal. But I have no imperical evidence for that off hand, just what I think I have read before and what sounds right. But if you just freeze them once, then use them all, you are probably fine.

Are you askign for additions to your ingredients? Or just if what you have down is good? The 120 seems unnecessary, and like I said the cascade seems odd to me. The roasted Barley seems low to me, I'd bump to at least half a pound, maybe .75 to balance the chocolate extract? I don't have any experience with extract.

Check out some of the recipes in the recipe section for insights. But it is your beer, man. Brew on! My suggestions are what I like and what I think this should be, and are not a required course of action. But really, I am having a hard time with the cascade. I have never had a stout w/ cascade, so maybe i am way off in my concern. Chocolate, coffee, grapefruit?

 

[beercentrist]

Thanks Wig! Could you elaborate more on the cascade and how it might clash with the stout? Keep in mind this is out of some random book in a homebrew supply shop.

They mixed all the grains together in one bag, so hopefully it can all just be steeped together. Not 100% sure though. But I don't know if we'll have time to do a mash tomorrow, got a 4 hour window in which to brew that we're working with.

I have a wyeast pacman packet that I just broke, so by the time we brew it'll have been about 15 hours -- that should be okay, right? Not sure about the expiration date actually, but it was manufactured May 17 2011. Still good?

I don't know what LME is supposed to smell like actually, but my friend does -- maybe I'll bring the LME to the store tomorrow though and see what they say.

And given that I have frozen my grains should I thaw them out today, or tomorrow?

I guess I was asking for both additions and verification, since it was just a sheet of paper from a homebrew store and I'm not 100% sure if they knew what they were doing so I figured that I'd try asking around on some forums to double-check before I dove in. Can I keep the 120 as is and add another .5 of roasted barley?

Man, you're thorough! Thanks for all the help!

Maybe it is just me, but cascade in a stout does not sound like a good time. But whatever flys your flag.

The crystal, barley and chocolate can be steeped for flavor. I think the flaked oats can be steeped with the rest, but i am not sure on it. You may need to mash it with soem some pale malt for enzymes. Check on how to handle it. If you do have to mash (and you have access to the malt) it is not very difficult, look for deathbrewers easy partial mash technique. Oh here it is https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-partial-mash-brewing-pics-75231/

The OG does not seem to big, but is the yeast viable/ is it to old? A starter would be great, but if you are brewing tomorrow, then it is a bit late. Expect some longer than normal lag time after pitching. What is the expiration date?

I got a bucket of liquid malt too, I will be using tomorrow. Any 'spots' will get spooned out, and the rest will go in! If you are new to brewing, do you know what liquid malt is supposed to smell like? If it looks good and does not smell rancid, I'd go with it.

In the future, I'd say do not freeaze your grains. A cool dry place is optimal. But I have no imperical evidence for that off hand, just what I think I have read before and what sounds right. But if you just freeze them once, then use them all, you are probably fine.

Are you askign for additions to your ingredients? Or just if what you have down is good? The 120 seems unnecessary, and like I said the cascade seems odd to me. The roasted Barley seems low to me, I'd bump to at least half a pound, maybe .75 to balance the chocolate extract? I don't have any experience with extract.

Check out some of the recipes in the recipe section for insights. But it is your beer, man. Brew on! My suggestions are what I like and what I think this should be, and are not a required course of action. But really, I am having a hard time with the cascade. I have never had a stout w/ cascade, so maybe i am way off in my concern. Chocolate, coffee, grapefruit?

 

[beercentrist]

Shoot, where'd my response go!

Cascade: Got similar responses about using that much Cascade in the brew, but the recipes I've found do call for it, like this one here.

Malts/Barley/Mash: It all came mixed together, so hopefully they knew what they were doing...so just gonna steep it all together and hope for the best If it's frozen now, should I thaw it out overnight or tomorrow morning?

Yeast: Wyeast Pacman 0859137 MFG 17MAY11, so I guess it's about 6-7 months old...broke it up and shook it, gonna leave it out and hope for the best here too. I'll update on how it's doing in the morning.

LME: I don't actually -- but going to try and get some fresh stuff tomorrow to maximize my chances of brewing success! I'll bring the bucket to the store though and see if they can give me an opinion on whether it's any good or not.

And I guess I was checking to see if there were any more instructions, as they seem a bit sparse to me as an absolutely new homebrewer haha.

Ingredients: Can I keep the 120, add .5 roasted barley and keep everything else the same? Aside from that, I guess I'll keep the cascade and let you know how everything goes! Thanks a million Wig!

 

[JLem]

If the LME smells like soy, I wouldn't use it. Since it wasn't sterilized after going into the plastic container and has sat around since August, it very likely is contaminated. Can you get new stuff?

Also, the crushed grains may be fine, especially since you kept them in the freezer, but I would give them a smell/taste before using them too.

 

[Yooper]

If the LME smells like soy, I wouldn't use it. Since it wasn't sterilized after going into the plastic container and has sat around since August, it very likely is contaminated. Can you get new stuff?

Also, the crushed grains may be fine, especially since you kept them in the freezer, but I would give them a smell/taste before using them too.

You'd have to get new LME. If it smells like soy, the beer will taste the same way. It's gone off, and is too old to be used.

Next time you want to store LME (and I wouldn't, as it's not very good when it's not fresh), put a layer of vodka over the extract and place the container in the fridge. It's not ideal, but it won't spoil in the fridge as easily as at room temperature.

 

[Yooper]

I really don't like your recipe. One example is the oats- you can't steep oats, they must be mashed. So all you'll get out of them is a starchy haze. The hopping is too weird with the chocolate extract. I'd probably fix up the recipe a bit before brewing, especially since you have to get fresh extract anyway.

 

[Wig]

Hey Yooper, or anyone else that peeks in here, can I address the oats?
If he steeps the oats, he gets a hazy product, it isn't that bg a deal since it is a dark beer. But does steeping not provide the smoothness he expects out of it? Does only mashing provide the smooth oat quality?

Thanks

 

[JLem]

I really don't like your recipe. One example is the oats- you can't steep oats, they must be mashed. So all you'll get out of them is a starchy haze. The hopping is too weird with the chocolate extract. I'd probably fix up the recipe a bit before brewing, especially since you have to get fresh extract anyway.

Other than the oats (and the spoiled LME, of course), I think the recipe looks fine - it is very similar to the Can You Brew It clone of Rogue's Shakespeare Stout (with the recipe direct from Rogue) with the addition of chocolate extract. Chocolate and citrus is a good pairing, especially in a dark, rich beer like this.

Not sure about the oats - I don't know if they give you anything without mashing. I've never tried just steeping. In fact, the impetus for my move to partial/all grain was the desire to make an oatmeal stout. I would suggest throwing some pale malt into the steeping bag with the oats and other grains so at least it will me sort of like a mini-mash.

 

[Yooper]

Other than the oats (and the spoiled LME, of course), I think the recipe looks fine - it is very similar to the Can You Brew It clone of Rogue's Shakespeare Stout (with the recipe direct from Rogue) with the addition of chocolate extract. Chocolate and citrus is a good pairing, especially in a dark, rich beer like this.

Not sure about the oats - I don't know if they give you anything without mashing. I've never tried just steeping. In fact, the impetus for my move to partial/all grain was the desire to make an oatmeal stout. I would suggest throwing some pale malt into the steeping bag with the oats and other grains so at least it will me sort of like a mini-mash.

That's probably so- I don't really like that beer (as I hate chocolate) but I do love cascade hops. I think citrus and chocolate go well together as a rule, but usually "orange" citrus. I do like cascades in some American stouts, but the chocolate/cascade combo sounds awful to me, I'm sorry to say!

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

the chocolate/cascade combo sounds awful to me, I'm sorry to say!

i agree with ya there, and i like chocolate. and love cascade hops flavor.

 

[jonmohno]

I would skip the cascade flavoring,and cut down or out the aroma as well.Do a minimash with the oats with like up to a # of base grains with Brown malt/toasted malt.Maybe even munich as a base for the partial mash. I like it more malty but seems your recipe is a dry stout?

 

[JLem]

I think you should try the recipe as you want - except make sure to replace the LME and try adding a pound of some base malt to your steeping grains. As a new brewer there's nothing quite like the experience of brewing your own recipe to help you figure things out. I think this beer has potential, especially if it sounds good to you. If it turns out less than what you expected it to be, you've learned a lot and can adjust this, and other, recipes in the future.

 

[beercentrist]

Darn, I knew I should've checked before brewing today!

So I went to the store today (oldest homebrew supply store in the U.S., they claim!), and had an employee there take a look at the stuff and sniff it -- he said it looked fine to him, so I went ahead and used it. I couldn't find any search results for what LME should smell like either -- is it possible I was just being paranoid and exaggerating in my head? Well, either way I'll let you all know how it turns out. Also got fresh crushed grains (shocked when it rang up for $1.88!) so maybe that plus the Nielsen-Massey chocolate extract will cover up any off flavors?

Kept everything else the same, just because I was getting so much different advice I figured I might as well try it this way this time, then come back to it later on and adjust to fix anything that went off in this batch. Just threw the oats in with everything else, but really wish I'd come back this morning to read up before brewing but I've been rushing around today.

Well, it's going to be stored away in the closet for now and I'll let you all know how it turns out 4 weeks from now. And if there's any other details I can add to help people in the future who want to try brewing this, let me know and I'll throw it up as soon as I'm able. Thanks to everyone who gave feedback and advice, and here's to hoping for something besides choco-soy with grapefruit notes! (hmm, maybe it'll taste like chocolate soy milk?)

[edit] Okay, so the 7 month old yeast was alive and kicking this morning too, but we'll see how it goes in fermentation...friend also had me take a taste of the beer (before yeast) when we took the hydrometer reading, but didn't detect anything too pungent/off/soy-y, so hopefully that's a good sign.

 

[beercentrist]

The airlock smells like bananas, and that's pleasant. It's been bubbling away at 70-68 the past couple days and is now at a pretty solid 70 degrees. Love watching it burp away! Noticed today that the water is 1/4"-1/2" below the fill line...so should I add more starsan to the airlock? 50/50 Starsan + water? Just water?

More importantly, how do I replace the liquid? Do I just uncap it, pour in some starsan? Pop it out, leave that little hole exposed to the elements while I rush to the sink, rinse out the airlock, fill it back up and pop it in? Or do I need to buy a second airlock and pull a switcheroo in the space of five seconds? Just being facetious But any serious advice would be appreciated!

 

[midfielder5]

You dilute Star san per the instructions on the bottle. It is super(!!) concentrated.
Fill a spray bottle w/ the diluted solution, then squirt into airlock- for example. There are other ways.

 

[JLem]

The airlock smells like bananas, and that's pleasant. It's been bubbling away at 70-68 the past couple days and is now at a pretty solid 70 degrees. Love watching it burp away! Noticed today that the water is 1/4"-1/2" below the fill line...so should I add more starsan to the airlock? 50/50 Starsan + water? Just water?

More importantly, how do I replace the liquid? Do I just uncap it, pour in some starsan? Pop it out, leave that little hole exposed to the elements while I rush to the sink, rinse out the airlock, fill it back up and pop it in? Or do I need to buy a second airlock and pull a switcheroo in the space of five seconds? Just being facetious But any serious advice would be appreciated!

I use the cheapest vodka I can find for filling my airlocks. No worries about leaving things exposed for a while - no harm will come to your beer, though I would just pop the cap off and refill it right there.

The banana smell seems out of place to me, but I have never used Pacman yeast before so I do not know if that is appropriate for this strain. Sounds like a result of too warm a fermentation - is the room at 70? Or the beer? Fermentation is exothermic and so the beer can be as much as 5-10 degrees warmer than the room the carboy is sitting in.

It is nice to see the airlock bubbling, isn't it?

 

[beercentrist]

I use the cheapest vodka I can find for filling my airlocks. No worries about leaving things exposed for a while - no harm will come to your beer, though I would just pop the cap off and refill it right there.

The banana smell seems out of place to me, but I have never used Pacman yeast before so I do not know if that is appropriate for this strain. Sounds like a result of too warm a fermentation - is the room at 70? Or the beer? Fermentation is exothermic and so the beer can be as much as 5-10 degrees warmer than the room the carboy is sitting in.

It is nice to see the airlock bubbling, isn't it?

Hmm, took your advice and things were fine as far as I could tell. I'll definitely keep that cheap vodka tip in mind for the future though!

I'm pretty sure the temp was for the beer, it was based off of a sticker-thing that was stuck to the bucket that my friend gave me and it's been freezing over here the past few weeks.

 

[beercentrist]

So I'm planning to rack to secondary tomorrow, but it looks like opinion is divided on whether or not it's necessary -- I don't care if my beer is particularly clear or cloudy, but I do have some bottled chocolate extract that I've been instructed to add to the secondary, so I'm planning on doing it anyway unless I can just dump it into the primary and leave it be for another 2 weeks.

So for racking into secondary -- I wash out my carboy with starsan, probably won't have time to dry it completely. Then I'll just pour the chocolate extract into the carboy, siphon the beer in with a hose, seal it off, and let it sit for two weeks. It's that simple, right? Crap, I realized that I forgot to get one of those bunghole things. I think I have a blow-off tube...but as long as I get one of those corks, I'll be okay right?

 

[BobC]

Your not going to learn what does/doesn't go well together unless you brew it and sample the finale product. Every experienced brewer here has made a bad tasting beer. If they haven't then they can't call themselves experienced. So let me know how it comes out. If you don't like it then switch up the hops and you'll get first hand experience on how hops effect the taste.

 

[RM-MN]

So I'm planning to rack to secondary tomorrow, but it looks like opinion is divided on whether or not it's necessary -- I don't care if my beer is particularly clear or cloudy, but I do have some bottled chocolate extract that I've been instructed to add to the secondary, so I'm planning on doing it anyway unless I can just dump it into the primary and leave it be for another 2 weeks.

So for racking into secondary -- I wash out my carboy with starsan, probably won't have time to dry it completely. Then I'll just pour the chocolate extract into the carboy, siphon the beer in with a hose, seal it off, and let it sit for two weeks. It's that simple, right? Crap, I realized that I forgot to get one of those bunghole things. I think I have a blow-off tube...but as long as I get one of those corks, I'll be okay right?

You will probably need an airlock on the secondary but for a short time you can stretch a bit of plastic wrap (Saran wrap?) over the top and poke a pinhole in it to allow the exchange of gasses without worrying about contamination until you get an airlock for it.

When you use StarSan you don't want it to dry. It's a wet contact sanitizer and if it dries it no longer sanitizes (although I don't think I would worry with only a short exposure).

 

[beercentrist]

I couldn't get the siphon to work so I just stuck a funnel on top of the carboy and poured it in. Plenty of foam. I added the chocolate extract and a 1/4 cup of corn sugar boiled in some water beforehand on the recommendation of someone at the store because it had been 3 weeks sitting on the trub. Hopefully this will cover for the introduction of much oxygen as well. Added a few cups of water (some of it boiled, some not) to top it off up to the neck, added an s-shaped airlock and we'll see how things go.