brewing today...need some advice on starter

[hendo80]

I am brewing my first lager today, a slightly modified Traditional Bock recipe posted here https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f61/traditional-bock-131304/

Using two smack packs of Wyeast 2206 Bavarian Lager and I made two 1.5 liter starters (one for each pack) on Friday night. The starters are still bubbling a bit after 34 hours. I used 300g of light DME in 3 liters of water, then split it between the two growlers I'm using for the starters, then oxygenated with pure O2.

This morning I'm a bit behind the 8-ball with regard to going through the entire decanting process, and the calculators (except for Wyeast) say I'm still under pitching my target 1.064 SG lager.

Thoughts on:

A: quickly trying to decant, giving it a two hour chill, then letting it warm back to pitching temps while I'm brewing, decant and pitch.

vs.

B: Pitch the entire 3 liters (rather than risk losing yeast to decanting) and adjusting my starting water volumes for the 3l starter.

any other thoughts or advice on how to proceed?

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

The risk with a short cold crash and then decanting is that the more attenuating, less flocculant yeast cells, will be poured down the drain along with the oxidized starter wort. If you can't wait for another day to brew, I'd skip the decanting step and just pitch what you have. As for the under pitching can you buy another smack pack then pitch it too, without making a starter first?

 

[LLBeanJ]

I would cold crash the starters now, wait until your lager wort is at pitching temp (~45-50°), remove from fridge, decant, and pitch cold. No need to let your yeast warm up. Unless you have super chilling abilities for chilling your wort, that should give you several hours of cold crash time before decanting.

 

[hendo80]

thanks for the replies....so far, a combo strategy is underway.

I'm chilling the starters, at least down to pitching temps. and I'm going to try and make a run for the LHBS this afternoon. That way, I can pitch my decanted starters, and throw in another smack pack for good measure late this afternoon.

so are the pitching rate specified by Mr. Malty, Beersmith, etc "really" required for a lager? It just seems so extreme compared to the ales I've done lately.

Wyeast says one smack pack will be approx. 6m/ml, so two is 12m/ml at 5 gallons. with starters, I'm supposedly well over the required pitching of 12m/ml for a 1.064 SG lager. The others say I'm underpitching by a either a packet or another liter+ of starter.

better safe than sorry I guess...perhaps I'll post another thread with why Wyeast says one thing and the calculators say another (and I could be reading the Wyeast calculator wrong).

 

[LLBeanJ]

Assuming this is for a 5-6 gal batch, sounds to me like you have plenty of yeast to get the job done. The fact that you are starting with 2 smack packs of pure yeast + a 3L starter puts you way ahead of the game. I really wouldn't bother with adding more yeast.

 

[hendo80]

Assuming this is for a 5-6 gal batch, sounds to me like you have plenty of yeast to get the job done. The fact that you are starting with 2 smack packs of pure yeast + a 3L starter puts you way ahead of the game. I really wouldn't bother with adding more yeast.

This is kind of what I was thinking/hoping...the LHBS guy gave me two packets when I told him I wasn't sure I'd have time to make a starter. It is 25 miles to the LHBS, so we will see if I have time. If not, I'm going in with what I've got!

 

[RM-MN]

I can't prove it but I suspect that there is a lot of misinformation about yeast pitching rates. You need a bunch of cells to make beer good but I think you have some choices. You can take a smack pack (or vial) and make a starter large enough to get all the cells needed for the beer or you can make a smaller starter and aerate the wort so the yeast will have the building blocks it needs to make more cells or you can pitch just a single smack pack and use pure oxygen to get enough oxygen in the wort that the yeast can reproduce sufficiently to get to the right number. I suspect that Gordon Strong uses that method when he says he uses a single smack pack for his 5 gallon batch of lager.

Here's an article in support of what I just posted. http://www.morebeer.com/articles/oxygen_in_fermentation

 

[hendo80]

Thanks for the link. Interesting, given that I've made the switch to pure oxygen, I think that will help the entire equation.