Brewing on the moon

[passedpawn]

I'm reading a book (Artemis) and the main character just sat down in a little moon pub for a beer. It's a colony of several "bubbles" connected by tubeways.

"He then poured a glass of my favorite reconstituted German beer."

Which of course got me thinking, why "reconstituted"? Does that make sense? Not sure what the author meant by that - he is a techy guy but probably not attuned to our hobby. I would think that brewing from raw ingredient would work great. Also, the low-O2 advocates would probably love it.

Thoughts?

 

[fluketamer]

i am not sure if you are serious or not but the reason all things will need to be reconstitued in space is because of the weight of water. weight is the bane of space travel. you need a massive amount of energy to escape earths gravity. think of the apollo rocket boosters. the more weight you have the more energy you need. if you can dehydrate anything it will be an advantage in space travel. thats why that nasty astronaut food in museums that we all thought was so cool in the 70's is always dried.

getting the water in outer space (or anywhere other than the earth) to reconstitute it however may be an issue.


not a space guy i just remember this from physics class in the 80's

good luck out there

 

[passedpawn]

i am not sure if you are serious or not but the reason all things will need to be reconstitued in space is because of the weight of water. weight is the bane of space travel. you need a massive amount of energy to escape earths gravity. think of the apollo rocket boosters. the more weight you have the more energy you need. if you can dehydrate anything it will be an advantage in space travel. thats why that nasty astronaut food in museums that we all thought was so cool in the 70's is always dried.

getting the water in outer space (or anywhere other than the earth) to reconstitute it however may be an issue.


not a space guy i just remember this from physics class in the 80's

good luck out there

Water is not lost though. On a moon station, once you have "enough" water shuttled in, it will sustain the population forever, even if you're brewing beer. It's not lost. So ideally you'd just need barley and hops (or grow it there). Yeast supply is easily self-sustaining. (let's ignore cleaning for now LOL)

So, if you had a moon colony, would it be easier to

1. ship in high-AVB beer and "reconstitute as the author seems to suggest
2. ship in dry ingredients (hops/barley/yeast) and brew with that,
3. grow barley and hops there (maybe not enough sun, but LEDs?), grow yeast, etc. This seems a LOT harder/impossible, but then perhaps nothing needs to be brought from earth

 

[bkboiler]

I think it's safe to say somebody is going to science the s*** out of this.

Seems like we need to figure out how to make water from elements we find wherever we land...

And genetically modify hops and barley to grow in a "space greenhouse".

Stone Brewing in San Diego demo'd a "toilet to tap" concept...can't say I noticed a difference, dont know if that's a compliment tho

 

[pvtpublic]

Reconstituted? Must be a Mr. Beer kit on the moon...

 

[day_trippr]

If one is going to grow anything on the moon it'll have to be under some type of UV-filtering enclosure. No atmosphere to speak of means UV-C "death rays" abound...

Cheers!

 

[passedpawn]

If one is going to grow anything on the moon it'll have to be under some type of UV-filtering enclosure. No atmosphere to speak of means UV-C "death rays" abound...

Cheers!

Most plastics and glass contain UV inhibitors. That's an easy problem.

I wonder how the carbonation charts would change. And clearing a finished beer on the moon would be painfully slow.

 

[jdauria]

Ha! I read that book and had the same thought when I read "reconstituted German beer".

 

[FloppyKnockers]

Great... Another BJCP category coming soon.

 

[mac_1103]

 

[Wigglebutts Brewery]

Another thread is discussing “flash” brewing which seems like another starting point for Off Earth Suds.

 

[MaxStout]

Just some brewer getting away from Ohio.

 

[Broken Crow]

I'm reading a book (Artemis) and the main character just sat down in a little moon pub for a beer. It's a colony of several "bubbles" connected by tubeways.

"He then poured a glass of my favorite reconstituted German beer."

Which of course got me thinking, why "reconstituted"? Does that make sense? Not sure what the author meant by that - he is a techy guy but probably not attuned to our hobby. I would think that brewing from raw ingredient would work great. Also, the low-O2 advocates would probably love it.

Thoughts?

Thanks for touching on one of my favourite science subjects (pre brain injury).
Every time a space vehicle propelled by liquid oxygen and liquid hydrogen, such as the venerable old space shuttle, performed any manouver in space the exhaust left a cloud of minute water-ice particles. As of yet, no-one has conceived of a way to reclaim this standard by-product of common space travel, but hey; Give the boffins time..
Reconstituting beer, apart from probably tasting like instant coffee compared to real coffee, would not just remove the water but also the alcohol, so you'd need to supply that too. With the appropriate current and gear, oxygen and hydrogen can easily be combined or split from water and though solar panels are far more efficient in space, compact MOX reactors are the more likely candidates for power.
All the infrastructure that'd take at least a generation to establish is still by and large hypothetical, but looks achievable. In the meantime, we can look to more terrestrial developments to establish the basic requirements:
https://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2023/03/german-brewery-creates-worlds-first-powdered-beer/

 

[Velnerj]

My first thought about brewing on the moon is boiling point. Without atmospheric pressure (or is, there an artificial environment?) water boils at a very cool temp which would cause issues for mash temp and hop utilization. You would need a pressure cooker in order to reach temps for brewing... But one could always do a raw beer...

 

[mac_1103]

Without atmospheric pressure (or is, there an artificial environment?) water boils at a very cool temp

Without an artificial environment there's really nothing to discuss. Liquid water basically can't exist on the lunar surface unless it's contained in some kind of artificial environment.

 

[Deadalus]

NASA has confirmed ice in permanently shadowed regions on the moon. We're humans, we'll figure out how to make some kind of hooch locally. Can't be paying Earth prices for this stuff!

 

[hotbeer]

Because of it's weight. Water will very likely be recycled from every possible source when traveling in space and on places that have little or hard to obtain water.

So yes, from all the things we don't want to talk about or even think about. To paraphrase what I think was once said by an astronaut. " I could come to terms with drinking water made from my own urine. It was the thought of drinking water from the other peoples urine I had an issue with! "

Then also realize there is water in ones excrement too.

As far as the reference to reconstituted. I wouldn't take that literally or scientifically. Reconstituted in general speech is often just a negative way to refer to something that comes in any dry form that has to have water added to make something that simulates the real product. So not necessarily that it'll be alcoholic beer. Just that it tastes like beer... somewhat.

 

[Broothru]

I'm reading a book (Artemis) and the main character just sat down in a little moon pub for a beer. It's a colony of several "bubbles" connected by tubeways.

"He then poured a glass of my favorite reconstituted German beer."

Which of course got me thinking, why "reconstituted"? Does that make sense? Not sure what the author meant by that - he is a techy guy but probably not attuned to our hobby. I would think that brewing from raw ingredient would work great. Also, the low-O2 advocates would probably love it.

Thoughts?

The ultimate LODO environment. Sign me up!

And just think: the lack of atmospheric pressure would allow you to reach wort boil virtually immediately without wasting natural gas or electrons. Boil-off could present some problems though, unless you had an industrial strength steam condenser cap.

But just imagine the entries you could post in the “What I did for beer today” thread.

 

[passedpawn]

My first thought about brewing on the moon is boiling point. Without atmospheric pressure (or is, there an artificial environment?) water boils at a very cool temp which would cause issues for mash temp and hop utilization. You would need a pressure cooker in order to reach temps for brewing... But one could always do a raw beer...

The book does touch on this lower boiling temperature, but regarding coffee. In this book, atmospheric pressure is only 20% of Earth's. The reason: Earth's atmosphere is ~ 20% oxygen, and the rest is filler. So the bubbles contain 100% oxygen, no filler, but 20% atmospheric pressure. Same number of 02 molecules per breath. Thus, water boils at 61C / 142F. Longer mashes?

 

[Witherby]

This article by Evan Rail from two weeks ago may be the real future of moon beer:

A High-Tech ‘Beer Printer’ From Belgium Wants to Digitize the Drinking Experience​

“Now, a Belgian startup called Bar.on wants to bring molecular mixing to the pint glass with a tabletop “beer printer” that can supposedly recreate any brew in a matter of seconds.”

“In addition to six cartridges filled with natural aromas and flavors, the OneTap uses tap water and a malt mixture, adding carbonation and the appropriate amount of neutral grain spirit to create a drink that is said to taste just like beer, even if it wasn’t brewed and fermented in the traditional way.”

 

[jerrylotto]

And clearing a finished beer on the moon would be painfully slow.

Not in a centrifuge...

 

[IslandLizard]

Every time a space vehicle propelled by liquid oxygen and liquid hydrogen, such as the venerable old space shuttle, performed any manouver in space the exhaust left a cloud of minute water-ice particles. As of yet, no-one has conceived of a way to reclaim this standard by-product of common space travel, but hey; Give the boffins time..

The "burning" of the hydrogen with oxygen generates superheated water (steam) at a very high temperature.

The principle of jet propulsion is to let superheated gasses escape through a keenly designed nozzle to optimize energy transfer. Propulsion (= kinetic) power is calculated as m*v^{2}/s. Since the velocity component is squared, the speed with which the "exhaust" escapes has the biggest effect on the propulsion (power) generated.

It would be very difficult, if not impossible, to recapture that (used-up) water.

 

[Somesaymybeerisdrinkable]

If you were going to brew on the moon DME and hop extracts would be the logical choice, unless you are growing the hops and barley there and start a malting operation.

If the atmospheric pressure is only 20% sea level, then I would imagine pour beer would cause excessive foaming if you are not careful.

I did find powdered beer search the interwebs. https://fortune.com/2023/03/24/german-brewer-invents-powdered-beer/

 

[Brew_Dude41]

Most plastics and glass contain UV inhibitors. That's an easy problem.

I wonder how the carbonation charts would change. And clearing a finished beer on the moon would be painfully slow.

Centrifuge for clarification if needed.

Carbing is an interesting thought though. You would think that it should remain consistent since it is pressure/ temp dependent, but it would the diminished gravity impact it?

 

[Broken Crow]

The "burning" of the hydrogen with oxygen generates superheated water (steam) at a very high temperature.

The principle of jet propulsion is to let superheated gasses escape through a keenly designed nozzle to optimize energy transfer. Propulsion (= kinetic) power is calculated as m*v^{2}/s. Since the velocity component is squared, the speed with which the "exhaust" escapes has the biggest effect on the propulsion (power) generated.

It would be very difficult, if not impossible, to recapture that (used-up) water.

Thanks for the science! Admittedly that one is far fetched, but it's stuck somwhere in the corner of my head from a bad sci-fi short from a lousey compilation novel (that included an extremely offensive to me 'alternate universe falling through a black hole' story). The short it came from featured a giant generation ship in which the propulsion system was midway down the ship and way down at the back was a 'collector'....yeah ridiculous, but I was a kid in a dogmatic household so a few completely irrational things stuck.
I really do like the LODO possibilities though.....and how about that powdered beer?

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

*dad joke time*

If we brewed beer on the moon every brew would be out of this world!

Cheers

 

[user 246304]

*dad joke time*

If we brewed beer on the moon every brew would be out of this world!

Cheers

 

[BrewZer]

getting the water in outer space (or anywhere other than the earth) to reconstitute it however may be an issue.

Hydrogen fuel cells create water as a byproduct. Plus, frozen water has been confirmed on the moon and on a couple asteroids analyzed while they whizzed past Earth.

 

[BongoYodeler]

Am I the only one that has a Police song with alternate lyrics dancing through my head?

 

[passedpawn]

Am I the only one that has a Police song with alternate lyrics dancing through my head?

lol as soon as I read your post it started playing in my head

 

[Broken Crow]

Don't for-get bit-ter-ing hops,
Brewing on the moon..

 

[BongoYodeler]

Don't for-get bit-ter-ing hops,
Brewing on the moon..

I hope my keg don't break
Brewing on the moon...

 

[Broken Crow]

Hmm....It might be closer than I thought;
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitc...an-space-agency-aqualunar-challenge-1.7279786