Brewing in a country with alcohol prohibition

[voltron]

I can get hops, it's not sterilized so I can't dry hop my beer, but better than no hops.
I tried making wine several times but it always ends with some sour flavor, I don't why, even that I kept it not exposed to air.

If its turning sour it usually is air getting in. You can make your own air lock. I use to brew in the juice bottle and i took the lid drilled a hole and glued a rubber tube to the lid then i took the other end and put in in a glass of water.

 

[Kee]

I'm curious how you sanitize your equipment. I brewed a few batches here before I finally found some no-rinse sanitizer. Is that a problem?

 

[MaxStout]

I'm curious how you sanitize your equipment. I brewed a few batches here before I finally found some no-rinse sanitizer. Is that a problem?

If you can't get sanitizers designed for brewing (i.e., Starsan, Iodophor, etc.), you might be able to get your hands on no-rinse sanitizers used in the restaurant industry. At least with the latter, you won't be suspected of using it for brewing.

 

[DesertFox]

If its turning sour it usually is air getting in. You can make your own air lock. I use to brew in the juice bottle and i took the lid drilled a hole and glued a rubber tube to the lid then i took the other end and put in in a glass of water.

I use a condom as an airlock, seemed effective, but yeah you're usually sour means air getting in, I'm gonna try your method. thanks

 

[DesertFox]

I'm curious how you sanitize your equipment. I brewed a few batches here before I finally found some no-rinse sanitizer. Is that a problem?

I couldn't find no rinse sanitizer, they didn't even know such a thing exists.
I use unscented chlorine, of course I need to rinse thoroughly with water a couple of times, but never had infections.

 

[MaryB]

StarSan is widely used in the USA as a sanitizer.

 

[Bilsch]

Can you get hydrogen peroxide and vinegar? With those you can make peracetic acid which is a common disinfectant in the food industry, and I believe considered 'no rinse' in lower concentrations.

https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/Peracetic Acid Technical Report Handling.pdf

 

[KIC-8462852]

In my country, I would rank homebrewing +/- in the same class as collecting stamps or knitting - a benign pastime for hobbyists. I never considered how it could be a subversive and intense act.
Props to DesertFox for making do with what's on hand (condom airlock ftw). I think it's a valuable experience as a brewer, at the least - going at it from the very basics.
Not that I advocate risking the lash for a few pints of beer, but the level of dedication is inspiring.
I would agree that cider or some other fruit wine would be the easiest to make, but beer is beer... there is no substitute.

 

[Say016]

Hello everybody,

I live in a country where alcohol is highly prohibited and of course all materials and equipment that are exclusively related to brewing/fermenting.
I used to turn non alcoholic "beer' into regular beer using baking yeast and table sugar, the results weren't so great so I decided to try another method.
I have access to malt extract in a health food store (Meridian is the brand name) so I'm giving it a try and I have a batch in process now, it has been four days now since the start of fermentation, the thing is that I didn't get the foam I usually get on the top of the wort, although the bubbling is going really nicely and I have a decent amount of co2 released through the airlock, I don't know if I did something wrong or if this is normal, here's how I did it:
materials:
3x370g Meridian barely malt extract
2x500g dextrose (bought from the drug store, this is the first time I use it)
50g hops
1 table spoon of baking yeast
5 gallon carboy
1 condom (airlock)

I boiled 1 gallon of water in a stainless steel pot then added the malt extract and dextrose, stirred until completely dissolved, added hops in a muslin bag boiled for 60 min.
then poured the wort in the carboy and added 4 gallon of water, I activated the yeast in 16oz of water and 4 table spoons of table sugar, now this is how I usually activate the yeast and I used to have nice foam on the top of the sugary water, but this time I got a very thin layer of foam on the top of it after about 45 minutes, but I poured it to the wort anyways and affixed the airlock (condom).
I'm not sure if I could've done it better, please can anyone tell me if I've done a big mistake so I will dump the wort and start over. and please explain why I didn't get the nasty looking foam on the top of the wort.

thanks in advance


I didn't choose brewing, brewing chose me!


-------------------
Edit #1:
day 10: so I bottled today. I'm no expert, but there isn't off flavors, it smells and tastes good, BUT it's sweet!
I did not bottle early I'm sure, there was no action in the fermentor in the past 48 hours, I think it's the maltose (complex sugar) that bread yeast doesn't consume/ferment.
I bottled in IKEA bottles as I didn't find 500ml or 1L coke bottles, only 250ml and 2.25L, so I'll keep my fingers crossed.
I'm keeping the bottles in a dark closet with some iced water bottles to control the temp.

I read your thread. I'm in the same situation as you. I've gradually built my inventory of beer yeast packs and hops. i've also been using a similar nestle system. I am trying my best with the Meridian as well as i don't want to be bringing the weight across the border that DME/LME requires. I've also tried roasting my own barley (you can easily buy 50kg bag of grain barley - just be sure to freeze or toast soon after as the barley bugs kick-in soon after) for adjunct - some guys do the malting but that's way too much effort for me. If you're pushing that route though, get an Indian or helper to pick up a bag (a bit conspicuous if you're a white expat). i paid 50SR with delivery so dirt cheap.

I've done 9 ~350g Meridian LME, 1Kg roasted barley, a pound of oat flakes (dried from Hyper or Lulu), 4 Tablespoon (15ml each) of choc syrup, 2 ounces freeze dried coffee, and a yeast pack. I'm doing an ounce of EKG and 2 ounce of Northern.

i've tried two batches - 1 with Safbrew-33 and another with Safbrew-05. My issue is the safbrew 33 is spot on stout! but the yeast pooped out after 3-4 days and left my gravity way too high. the Safbrew is robust but gives me a rough metallic finish.

would love to here how your recipes have developed and any make shift aids you're using. Best of luck.

on the ikea bottles, they're solid. seals are rock solid.

 

[TGFV]

Thanks for the support man. I wish I was in a free country like the states, ordering a brewing kit via mail is a dream to me.

Canada you can simply walk into many grocery stores and get a part kit. Plus we have free healthcare so that's a plus.

If it's trying to get a visa/refugee status you could always apply to multiple countries in hopes one works (if that's your situation and you haven't already)

As for Ikea bottles, I had a sparkling mead in a few and they were fine, but you do have to watch your CO2 levels. 1/2 tsp per 500 ml though should be fine.

 

[hawkbox]

Agreed, this is definitely making me appreciate how easily I can get brewing equipment. Shine is technically illegal here but unless you're doing it commercially no one cares.

 

[Say016]

Canada you can simply walk into many grocery stores and get a part kit. Plus we have free healthcare so that's a plus.

If it's trying to get a visa/refugee status you could always apply to multiple countries in hopes one works (if that's your situation and you haven't already)

As for Ikea bottles, I had a sparkling mead in a few and they were fine, but you do have to watch your CO2 levels. 1/2 tsp per 500 ml though should be fine.

True, much easier elsewhere to brew for sure. However, the paychecks out here cannot be beat... by multiples of western norms. Thus, the inconvenience of makeshift brewing continues! Although, if you want to mail a Labatts my way, no complaints on this end...

 

[DesertFox]

I read your thread. I'm in the same situation as you. I've gradually built my inventory of beer yeast packs and hops. i've also been using a similar nestle system. I am trying my best with the Meridian as well as i don't want to be bringing the weight across the border that DME/LME requires. I've also tried roasting my own barley (you can easily buy 50kg bag of grain barley - just be sure to freeze or toast soon after as the barley bugs kick-in soon after) for adjunct - some guys do the malting but that's way too much effort for me. If you're pushing that route though, get an Indian or helper to pick up a bag (a bit conspicuous if you're a white expat). i paid 50SR with delivery so dirt cheap.

I've done 9 ~350g Meridian LME, 1Kg roasted barley, a pound of oat flakes (dried from Hyper or Lulu), 4 Tablespoon (15ml each) of choc syrup, 2 ounces freeze dried coffee, and a yeast pack. I'm doing an ounce of EKG and 2 ounce of Northern.

i've tried two batches - 1 with Safbrew-33 and another with Safbrew-05. My issue is the safbrew 33 is spot on stout! but the yeast pooped out after 3-4 days and left my gravity way too high. the Safbrew is robust but gives me a rough metallic finish.

would love to here how your recipes have developed and any make shift aids you're using. Best of luck.

on the ikea bottles, they're solid. seals are rock solid.

Thank you for sharing your recipe.

well firstly my last batch ended up 'ok', it was too malty and under-hopped, wasn't the best beer, but it did the job and still better than any homemade alcoholic beverage you buy over here. carbonation was good (1/2 tsp of sugar per 500ml bottle), Ikea bottles handled the pressure very well. bread yeast left (of course) a bread-ish taste and a little sourness, but aging in bottles for a month enhanced the flavor and clearness.

a friend of mine who is a biologist (with no brewing experience) suggested to wash the yeast and use it in future batches, he believes this will lead in the long term to a better yeast strain, I have no clue if this works but I'm going to try it anyway as I failed multiple times cultivating wild yeast.

A few days ago I started two batches, and I'm trying to enhance a few things.
in batch#1 I used:
1- 30 x 330ml Holsten non-alcoholic beer. I found that Holsten is the "hoppiest" NA beer in the market, so Im using it instead of hops! because I don't have access to sanitized hops.
2- 3 x 350g Meridien ME.
3- 1 tbs Baker's yeast
4- 500g sugar
boiled the malt extract in 8 L. of water with the sugar, after cooling I poured it in the carboy, emptied the 30 cans of NA beer. now the fermentation has been active for 6 days but there was no krausen, and it's not because of the baker's yeast, I used it before and there was krausen.


batch#2:
I tried Prostel NA beer a while ago and LOVED it, so I decided to make a batch of it.
18 x 1L. Prostel Classic NA beer.
500g sugar
baker's yeast
and again there's no Krausen!

I know both batches will not taste awful, but also not good.

I'm curious how did your batch turn out?
where did you get grain barley?
and most importantly, where did you get the yeast!

 

[DesertFox]

Canada you can simply walk into many grocery stores and get a part kit. Plus we have free healthcare so that's a plus.

If it's trying to get a visa/refugee status you could always apply to multiple countries in hopes one works (if that's your situation and you haven't already)

As for Ikea bottles, I had a sparkling mead in a few and they were fine, but you do have to watch your CO2 levels. 1/2 tsp per 500 ml though should be fine.

I'm sure life in Canada is much easier than life here. I have tried to move to other countries but couldn't. anyways thanks a lot.

about Ikea bottles, yeah they are great, I loved them, and they look cool also

 

[DownstairsBrewing]

In your situation, I think you need to explore cultivating your own yeast strain - sourdough bread bakers maintain their starters for years on end, feeding them a little every day and/or keeping them refrigerated. That would also work if you are able to lay your hands on a beer yeast, using it to start a permanent starter. Added bonus, basically impossible to tell the difference between a beer and a bread starter in a jar unless you send it to a lab.

If you are using baker's yeast, you will get likely better results from a local starter than you will from commercial bread yeast, albeit with an increased chance of lactobacillus. You may be the pioneer of the newest trend in brewing, Saudi-style sours.

The Scandinavian drink 'kvass' and the Finnish 'Sahti' are both made with a bread yeast.

 

[Say016]

Yeah, i know a lot of people use holsten - i tried a couple times when trying to do an IPA but i over-hopped with a pine variant hop (Polaris i think) i picked up in Paris and an US-05 yeast. i didn't like the finish flavor (metallic/twangy vibe) so switched to more forgiving Stout and S-33 yeast.

For the yeast, i just bring the small packs through customs (causeway). i know a lot of guys buy yeast in bulk and repackage into something less innocuous. most fly through DMM. never issues. There's guys bringing DME and LME by the Kilo - relabeled syrup and the like. i personally don't mind bring light weight yeast/hops because a little goes a long way. not willing to risk the DME/LME though - just need too much for only a batch or two.

if you're in a bind for real 'baking ingredients', try camel cakes... they Aramex in via Britain.

as for the barley. i got it through a friend whom had his helper/cleaner/driver guy go to the DMM port and buy directly. i paid 50 SAR for 50KG bag, including delivery! so dirt cheap. i personally don't know who or how to go to but if you ask about Dammam dry dock (assuming your Eastern Province), i'm sure you'll situate. personally, i find roasting a few kilos in the oven and adding for adjunct really adds the mouth/flavor for a stout. if you get serious, an all-grain route works too - a lot of die-hards here only go this route (too much effort for me). if you go this route, watch the barley bugs! they take over quickly - repack and freeze roast all of it and then store.

if you get serious about C02, you can easily get a filled tank for like 700 SAR - 30 SAR refill (have use for several kegs and plenty of gas left)

i Aramex'd two new kegs in - specifically asking for all marketing materials to be excluded from packaging. As far as this place is concerned, Coca-Cola dispensing.

my latest batch came out nice - probably will add a little more coffee next time for a little more kick - maybe more vanilla too for fun.

Thank you for sharing your recipe.

well firstly my last batch ended up 'ok', it was too malty and under-hopped, wasn't the best beer, but it did the job and still better than any homemade alcoholic beverage you buy over here. carbonation was good (1/2 tsp of sugar per 500ml bottle), Ikea bottles handled the pressure very well. bread yeast left (of course) a bread-ish taste and a little sourness, but aging in bottles for a month enhanced the flavor and clearness.

a friend of mine who is a biologist (with no brewing experience) suggested to wash the yeast and use it in future batches, he believes this will lead in the long term to a better yeast strain, I have no clue if this works but I'm going to try it anyway as I failed multiple times cultivating wild yeast.

A few days ago I started two batches, and I'm trying to enhance a few things.
in batch#1 I used:
1- 30 x 330ml Holsten non-alcoholic beer. I found that Holsten is the "hoppiest" NA beer in the market, so Im using it instead of hops! because I don't have access to sanitized hops.
2- 3 x 350g Meridien ME.
3- 1 tbs Baker's yeast
4- 500g sugar
boiled the malt extract in 8 L. of water with the sugar, after cooling I poured it in the carboy, emptied the 30 cans of NA beer. now the fermentation has been active for 6 days but there was no krausen, and it's not because of the baker's yeast, I used it before and there was krausen.


batch#2:
I tried Prostel NA beer a while ago and LOVED it, so I decided to make a batch of it.
18 x 1L. Prostel Classic NA beer.
500g sugar
baker's yeast
and again there's no Krausen!

I know both batches will not taste awful, but also not good.

I'm curious how did your batch turn out?
where did you get grain barley?
and most importantly, where did you get the yeast!

 

[rlmiller10]

You can use sourdough starter for a beer yeast. I gave it a try in this thread. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/sour-dough-starter-for-yeast.625442/

 

[DesertFox]

Yeah, i know a lot of people use holsten - i tried a couple times when trying to do an IPA but i over-hopped with a pine variant hop (Polaris i think) i picked up in Paris and an US-05 yeast. i didn't like the finish flavor (metallic/twangy vibe) so switched to more forgiving Stout and S-33 yeast.

For the yeast, i just bring the small packs through customs (causeway). i know a lot of guys buy yeast in bulk and repackage into something less innocuous. most fly through DMM. never issues. There's guys bringing DME and LME by the Kilo - relabeled syrup and the like. i personally don't mind bring light weight yeast/hops because a little goes a long way. not willing to risk the DME/LME though - just need too much for only a batch or two.

if you're in a bind for real 'baking ingredients', try camel cakes... they Aramex in via Britain.

as for the barley. i got it through a friend whom had his helper/cleaner/driver guy go to the DMM port and buy directly. i paid 50 SAR for 50KG bag, including delivery! so dirt cheap. i personally don't know who or how to go to but if you ask about Dammam dry dock (assuming your Eastern Province), i'm sure you'll situate. personally, i find roasting a few kilos in the oven and adding for adjunct really adds the mouth/flavor for a stout. if you get serious, an all-grain route works too - a lot of die-hards here only go this route (too much effort for me). if you go this route, watch the barley bugs! they take over quickly - repack and freeze roast all of it and then store.

if you get serious about C02, you can easily get a filled tank for like 700 SAR - 30 SAR refill (have use for several kegs and plenty of gas left)

i Aramex'd two new kegs in - specifically asking for all marketing materials to be excluded from packaging. As far as this place is concerned, Coca-Cola dispensing.

my latest batch came out nice - probably will add a little more coffee next time for a little more kick - maybe more vanilla too for fun.

Everything in Dammam is easier. I live in Jeddah and I find it very hard to find the ingredients and equipments, or maybe I'm not looking in the right places.

All-grain method is too much effort for me too, however, I am interested in your recipe but with some modifications regarding hops and yeast. I saw that you didn't use sugar/dextrose, I'm a bit confused so could you please tell me the ingredients, amounts, and steps in details?
I'm sorry if I'm asking too much, but I'm still a beginner and learning from you guys.

 

[DesertFox]

In your situation, I think you need to explore cultivating your own yeast strain - sourdough bread bakers maintain their starters for years on end, feeding them a little every day and/or keeping them refrigerated. That would also work if you are able to lay your hands on a beer yeast, using it to start a permanent starter. Added bonus, basically impossible to tell the difference between a beer and a bread starter in a jar unless you send it to a lab.

If you are using baker's yeast, you will get likely better results from a local starter than you will from commercial bread yeast, albeit with an increased chance of lactobacillus. You may be the pioneer of the newest trend in brewing, Saudi-style sours.

The Scandinavian drink 'kvass' and the Finnish 'Sahti' are both made with a bread yeast.

You can use sourdough starter for a beer yeast. I gave it a try in this thread. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/sour-dough-starter-for-yeast.625442/

I'm gonna try sourdough starter in my next batch. Thanks a lot, you've been very helpful guys.

 

[DownstairsBrewing]

I'm gonna try sourdough starter in my next batch. Thanks a lot, you've been very helpful guys.

I was being somewhat tongue in cheek about 'Saudi sours' being the next big thing, but in the breadbaking world, the distinctive yeast-bacteria mix found in Saudi Arabia is actually sold commercially. You might find you have a really interesting mix. As compared to a sourdough starter that occurs naturally where I live (eastern Canada), yours should contain a purer mix of lactobacillus and saccharomyces cerevisiae, with maybe a little sacc. exiguus. The strain of cerevisiae provides less 'rise', or leavening, than most. Not really sure what that means for brewing, I know more about sourdoughs than I know about beer brewing.

However, I do know that it takes relatively few batches/generations for a starter to 'evolve' to utilize the grains provided. I have branched out whole wheat, rye, and spelt sourdough starters from my original base. I have absolutely no idea whether they are optimal, but the balance has definitely shifted as different elements utilize the nutrients more effectively and outcompete the others. There is probably a way to influence that process to have the sacc. cerevisiae dominate, but I am not that sophisticated. However, if you just keep feeding it malt extract, it will start to align that way - and probably become less 'bready' as well.

rlmiller10's post above is really good - your starter in the Gulf area should naturally have less variety in the strains of bacteria.

 

[yourlastchance89]

This thread is awesome. I am definitely subbed. Best of luck to you in your brewing endeavors Desertfox. You'll be in my thoughts everytime I get frustrated about a brewday hurdle. We truly do take things for granted in the West.

 

[applescrap]

There are places where beer is out lawed? Wtf, is wrong with people. Best wishes desert fox you have way more guts than me

 

[Lefou]

Low alcohol session mead could also be an option. Add some citrus fruit and dates ... you're on your way.
The price and availability of honey would be something to check out, though. If grapes and juice won't make wine, the honey may work better.

 

[lootcorp]

DesertFox, I'll be thinking of you when brewing this weekend and dedicating my next batch to my brothers and sisters in beer who don't have it as easy as I do. Good luck and brew safe!!

 

[NeverDie]

I think if it were me I'd trade the beer for 4 wives. I'd be too busy to miss the beer.

 

[OSULumberjack]

This is a crazy thread, so fascinating. It really re-frames my complaints after moving to Utah. Good luck DesertFox we're all pullin' for you.

 

[Nate R]

This is a crazy thread, so fascinating. It really re-frames my complaints after moving to Utah. Good luck DesertFox we're all pullin' for you.

Head to a Utah State Wine Store... Squatters Hop Rising... it does the trick
But yeah...UT beer... limited selection!

 

[kh54s10]

OP was last seen on Dec. 7, I wonder is the authorities caught up to him????

 

[Keemo]

As a Saudi, please do not think that brewing your own wine or beer is serious. As long as you keep it to yourself and close friends there are practically no issues.

 

[kh54s10]

OP has now been missing for 2 years, 6 months and 2 days....