Brewing first beer tonight - a few questions

[jfr1111]

Finally brewing my first batch tonight and I'm pretty excited, altough the visit to the lhbs left me with more questions than I had before. Namely, the guy said to me that:

1) There is no need for an airlock on the primary since I only have to leave the cover on the bucket unclipped ! Seeing as he was adamant about this, it left me pretty puzzled. I know that my grandfather used to this when he was making wine and one of my friend also still does this with his wine. The problem is:
a) They're making wine
b) My friend's wine taste like infected crap 50% of the time and grandpa's was barely drinkable, let alone enjoyable. Maybe fermenting with the lid unclipped is standard and they just suck at cleaning/sanitizing.

2) He recommended that I do not boil my wort. Now, I bought pasteurized ready-made wort for the first batch sinc eI have enough to stress about without worrying about boil-overs for my first batch and I wanted to try it out. So he is right. But he also said not to boil the wort when using canned extract to avoid off flavours... WTF ? How do you not end up with a sludge like kool-aid doing that ?

3) He said that leaving the beer more than 5 days sitting on the yeast in the primary would result in yeasty beer full of off flavours. Maybe if you leave the lid unclipped since you're opening yourself to oxydation city, but I tought this had been debunked since 1996...

Now, I know that he was pretty much wrong regarding 2-3, but who really still leaves the bucket with the lid unclipped ? Would I be better off just pitching in the carboy and forgoing secondary ? I don't care about clarity, I'm brewing stout.

The other problem is, I don't have a blowoff tube, just an airlock (he didn't know what I was talking about when I spoke about buying a blowoff tube) and I'm worried about clogging and leaving a mess... The guy was great and very helpful, but he really gave me crappy advice if I take this forum's word on 99% of the subjects we talked about.

 

[DrawTap88]

The LHBS guy is right...but he's also wrong regarding number 1. Leaving the lid loose is much like doing an "open fermentation," like they did the old days (and some breweries still do this). Nothing wrong with that, might let some wild yeast in, but not enough to ruin your stout.

The way most people do it, is to make sure the bucket is fully sealed and use the air lock to keep those wild yeasts out and use an air lock to make it a "closed fermentation," like most breweries do today. If you have a carboy and pre-drilled stopper for the air lock, I'd pitch into that so you can see the magic of the yeast working. That's more of a cool thing for a first timer to check out.

Either way you do it, as long as you sanitize everything, you'll be fine.

The blowoff tube you can get by going to your local hardware store to get a hose and attach that to the airlock, if you're doing a closed fermentation.

Is your canned extract pre-hopped? If it is, I believe you can get away with not boiling it (but I still would boil it for 15 minutes to make sure that there is nothing nasty living in the wort before pitching my yeast). If it isn't pre-hopped, go for a 60 minute boil and add your hops as necessary.

The yeast thing has been debunked many times. My rule of thumb regarding leaving the beer on the yeast and trub is now right around a month. After that long I don't feel comfortable leaving the beer sit on the dead yeast.

Sorry this is so long.

 

[grasshopper1917]

Some good questions:

I have a primary plastic bucket witout an airlock - you can just lie the lid on top and dont need to fasten it - beer will turn out fine. Personally I fasten the top on tight and just lift the little every now and then to let the gas out (burp the bucket - is what they call it down here lol). As for the hopped can kits - that is correct there is no need to boil that - it has allready been boiled - hops added and all that jazz - if you boil it further it will kill some of the hop flavor.

Remeber this is just your first beer - have fun - its pretty hard to make bad beer if you make sure everythign is clean and practice good sanitization - hope this helps - cheers

 

[carrotmalt]

My friend's wine taste like infected crap 50% of the time and grandpa's was barely drinkable, let alone enjoyable. Maybe fermenting with the lid unclipped is standard and they just suck at cleaning/sanitizing.

I'm guessing their less than pleasant results were more due to yeast health, fermentation temps, and more than likely using yeast developed for putting off CO2 rather than for brewing. Whether they clipped the lid or not probably wasn't their downfall.

From what I've read, wild yeast don't crawl in. They either have to fall out of the air, or be blown in with a draft. Just like using foil on the top of a starter, with primary fermentation, you really don't care if it's air tight. You just want it covered enough that dust particles, wild yeast, dog hair, etc. won't fall or blow in.

That being said, the air lock does provide some cool factor when you're anxiously waiting.

Good luck on your first brew. Oh, and if you can stand it, leave it on the yeast for at least 3 weeks. Best of luck to ya!

 

[pwndabear]

do me a favor:

punch your lhbs clerk in his stupid face.
*edit* ok, dont go that far... instead:

do what you want to do. don't listen to someone who so vehemently says they are right and you do need this or you dont need to do that. Do your research, get a feel for what YOU want to do.

There are multiple ways of doing things and you will find what you like and how you want to brew. If you try something one way and you get a bad beer, change stuff around and try something new. Most of us will agree that we wouldnt be caught dead using pre-hopped LME and we like to put ingredients together ourselves, or for our first times we would recommend using a specific kit rather than coopers, but this is all up to you. Which, btw, is one of the beauties of homebrewing: DIY!

But the most important things you can do are research and ask questions. Ask questions that you cant find answers to and you WILL get responses from us.

Good luck on your first brew! I hope it turns out great!

 

[Hang Glider]

Don't forget about temp control. My LHBS guy (2001) told me to just put the bucket in the corner for a week and forget about it -
it wasn't very good beer.

If you have a way to keep it near 65F, you will make a fine first beer!

Welcome to brewing - keep us posted! ask more questions -

 

[jfr1111]

Thanks for the answer guys. The product I'm using is not hopped LME, it's really just 5 gallons of pasteurized wort so I just put it in a clean sanitized bucket, pitch the yeast and proceed like normal.

I'll probbly just put it in the carboy since I don't really see a need for a secondary for such a dark beer or maybe I'll try it with the lid only resting on the pail.

 

[SatelliteGuy]

If you use the carboy, make sure it doesn't get sunlight (and just to be safe, I'd try and avoid other types of light too)
Wrap it in a blanket, or something like that.

 

[BadLuckBrewer]

Good luck on your first brew! If I was you I wouldn't listen to much the guy from your lhbs said. He is a bit off in his information. Leaving the beer on the yeast a bit longer can really clean up any off flavors (whole lot of crazy science stuff on this)

 

[wyzazz]

1) I'd recommend using a blow-off then switching to an airlock (because it's easier to move around) after the active ferment is over. It's true that some don't use either, and it's true that they are not needed, but for me it's easier to clean up a blow off jar than the floor if my brew creeps up over my containers walls.

2) I'd boil the canned stuff as well, if you want fresh hop flavor from a can then you'll have to add fresh hops.

3) He is wrong on this one, yeast is much more viable now than it was when Autolysis was a big concern. I leave all my beers on the yeast for at least 3 weeks, usually longer.

You'll want to make sure you've got some headspace (at least a gallon) in your fermenter, my beers are usually crystal clear and I only use a primary.

If you need a blow-off tube just pick some vinyl tubing at the hardware store.

Welcome to HBT and if you have more questions just fire away!

 

[ajf]

1) There is no need for an airlock on the primary since I only have to leave the cover on the bucket unclipped ! Seeing as he was adamant about this, it left me pretty puzzled. I know that my grandfather used to this when he was making wine and one of my friend also still does this with his wine. The problem is:
a) They're making wine
b) My friend's wine taste like infected crap 50% of the time and grandpa's was barely drinkable, let alone enjoyable. Maybe fermenting with the lid unclipped is standard and they just suck at cleaning/sanitizing.
When I started brewing, I used to do that. I was fermenting in a trash bin, so there was no airtight lid. Ale pails hadn't been invented then. Providing the lid prevents nasties dropping into the brew, this is OK while the beer is fermenting vigorously.

2) He recommended that I do not boil my wort. Now, I bought pasteurized ready-made wort for the first batch sinc eI have enough to stress about without worrying about boil-overs for my first batch and I wanted to try it out. So he is right. But he also said not to boil the wort when using canned extract to avoid off flavours... WTF ? How do you not end up with a sludge like kool-aid doing that ?
If you bought pre-hopped extract, then you don't need to boil. If the extract is not pre-hopped, then you will need to boil to extract the bitterness from the hops. Beer without hops is not good.

3) He said that leaving the beer more than 5 days sitting on the yeast in the primary would result in yeasty beer full of off flavours. Maybe if you leave the lid unclipped since you're opening yourself to oxydation city, but I tought this had been debunked since 1996...
I don't really know about this, because when I fermented in the trash bin, I always used to transfer to a secondary after about 7 days, when the fermentation was just about complete. If you have an airlock on a bucket or carboy, you can certainly leave it for 3 - 4 weeks without any problem. As fermentation slows, you can get oxidation if you don't use an airlock.

Perhaps the guy in the LHBS is an old fart like me and is still using techniques he learned 30 - 40 years ago.

-a.

 

[daveooph131]

Do not take the beer off the yeast after 5 days. The yeast need time to clean up after themselves. Leave your beer 3 weeks then decide whether to bottle or secondary.

 

[DrawTap88]

Thanks for the answer guys. The product I'm using is not hopped LME, it's really just 5 gallons of pasteurized wort so I just put it in a clean sanitized bucket, pitch the yeast and proceed like normal.

Boil and add some hops. Doesn't have to be a lot of hops...at least 1 oz of pellets with low alpha acid percentage (AA%). The beer needs the hops to preserve it while it ages and to add flavor and aroma.

 

[Kirbster]

The beer also needs to have hops in it to be considered beer. Beer is defined as having malt, water, yeast, and hops. Anything less is not beer. Definitely figure out a way to add hops to the wort.

 

[wyzazz]

I'm going to imagine that the wort has hops in it, OP stated he wasn't using unhopped LME, not unhopped wort.

 

[jfr1111]

Yes, the thing I'm using is called Festa Brew, it already has hops in it, this is why it's calledready-made. Yes, it's "lazy" (but not as lazy as picking up a sixer at the grocery storev), but I really wanted to give this a try after reading comments on the net.

Beer still not in primary since life got in the way, next week will be the week since I'm now pressed for time (going on a kayak trip in 6 hours) and if there is something I know is to take your time when brewing. Rushing will only lead to bigger mistakes (I'll be sure to make small ones along the way).

 

[fugazzi]

Airlocks cost like $2, no reason not to get one and use it. It's just a little more insurance.

 

[grasshopper1917]

Yea have dome some Festa Brews before - do it just like the guy at the beer store said - it will turn out great - dont add a thing too it. Its awesome beer. What style did ya get?

One word of advice about these forums - the best thing is look for advice from people who have actually brewed the same way you are. For example I brew canned kits so I would never give and all grain brewer advice because I dont brew that way so I dont have experience. Alot of the all grain guys have never used festa brew or canned kits so they also dont really have the experience. Just a tip

 

[DrawTap88]

One word of advice about these forums - the best thing is look for advice from people who have actually brewed the same way you are. For example I brew canned kits so I would never give and all grain brewer advice because I dont brew that way so I dont have experience. Alot of the all grain guys have never used festa brew or canned kits so they also dont really have the experience. Just a tip

+1 to that advice. When someone says that they got a kit, we all pretty much assume that it's from northern brewer, midwest or austin homebrew supply.

 

[johnnyspade]

Yea have dome some Festa Brews before - do it just like the guy at the beer store said - it will turn out great - dont add a thing too it. Its awesome beer. What style did ya get?

One word of advice about these forums - the best thing is look for advice from people who have actually brewed the same way you are. For example I brew canned kits so I would never give and all grain brewer advice because I dont brew that way so I dont have experience. Alot of the all grain guys have never used festa brew or canned kits so they also dont really have the experience. Just a tip

So true, many of the posters on this forum, particularly from US, won't have brewed with Festa Brew. That wort absolutely does not need to be boiled, just dump it in your clean and sanitized primary and pitch the yeast.

Does your primary have an airlock? He may have recommended not snapping the lid down just in case it blows off. What I will sometimes do is leave it in the primary for about 5 days, with the lid loose, and then rack to the secondary.

You don't need to add anything to Festa Brew but I have added cocoa do the double oatmeal stout and it was excellent.

 

[jfr1111]

I have decided to brew like he recommended me to: with the lid loose.

Krausen has receeded, would it be okay to just snap it down and have my girlfriend burp it by slightly opening the lid once a day ? I'm going away until next Friday and I'm worried the CO2 blanket will be all but gone after the vigorous fermentation stops sometime next week.

I'm never brewing like this again (lid loose), just creates more headaches than it solves. Sure I don't have to worry about airlocks shotting in the air or other horror stories, but I caught a few flies buzzing in the "brew room" today and well, it just doesn't feel right. The LHBS clerk can brew the way he damn well pleases, but I'm not fretting again over flies for a 2$ airlock. Plus, I'm lazy and just thinking about having to rack to secondary next week to avoid oxydation makes me feel all bleh...

Next time it'll be:
1. Put beer in carboy/pail with drilled lid.
2. Put airlock/blow-off tube on said carboy/pail with drilled lid
3. Wait 4-6 weeks
4. Bottle

 

[rsquared]

CO2 is heavier than O2. So the fermentation filled that headspace with CO2, and pushed out all the O2 (which stayed on top). The CO2 is there to stay as long as you don't mess with things too much. In other words, don't go moving the bucket around or opening it up all the way and stirring it. You've got no worries about oxidation as long as you just leave the lid on, even just loosely (which is how I'd leave it myself).

 

[jfr1111]

The thing is, I do have to open the bucket to take a FG gravity reading and probably more than once. Hadn't thought about that when I followed the lhbs advice. Anyway, this is more of a"pratice" beer to experiment with the different techniques and what works best for me. Maybe I'll fall in love with racking to seconday. Doubt it very much though.

Installed a couple of sticky traps for the flies this morning, w'll see if I get any more visitors

 

[carrotmalt]

I say carefully take a hydro reading after a week or so just to ensure that it's done (by carefully I mean turn off the fan and try not to flatulate directly into the fermenter ). Then, replace the lid and leave it the heck alone for another 2-3 weeks. You might attempt to burp the lid after the first day or two just in case there's any pressure.

There are many posts here on the benefits of leaving it on the yeast cake, and I really don't think there's any way you're going to have enough oxidation for it to be a player unless you pick up your fermentation bucket and attempt to poor it into you hydrometer tube... never mind, you'd still probably never tell the difference. In the end, do whatever you feel most comfortable with and it'll likely by fine. Good luck!

 

[wyzazz]

I wouldn't snap that lid down all the way, if your ambient temp goes up the CO2 in solution will come out of the beer creating pressure in the bucket, that could possibly cause your lid to shoot off. Leave it loose, it's better than the alternative.

 

[jfr1111]

So the consensus is: leave it the hell alone on the yeast cake you doofus Seeing as CO2 is heavier than air, if I just leave enough of the lid loose for the excess to get out, if there is any, there will be enough of a blanket to insure that the beer won't suffer from oxydation. I have done this for the past few days and it has worked so far... I I wasn'T at work I'd relax and have a beer, but I guess I'll just relax and think about having a beer.

I'll take a FG reading next week, when it'll be 7 days, clamp down if FG is met and then burp for a day or two to insure no explosion will take place. The "brew room" stays at a constant 17 Celcius all year long, so concerns about CO2 dissolution rates changing due to temperature aren't that critical. Plus, the beer is in a swamp cooler, chillig with two old t-shirts keeping it nice, cool and constant. One t-shirt even has a wolf on it, so you know the brew is going to be good.

 

[carrotmalt]

I just remembered that I had some of your same oxidation concerns less than a year ago if you want to take a look at the responses I got. I've since read other threads that came to same basic conclusion as well. Read as much as you can and brew as often as you can.

We all keep learning as we go.