BrewCommander - Impressive offering from John
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Cato1507
Well-Known Member
With the compression fitting you can insert as much or as little of the probe into your kettle. For my BIAB, I just insert a little so that it won't bother my Brew Bag.
Works great!
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Great video, thanks!
so for the 240v version I only need to run 3 wires, not a neutral for this ? I was originally thinking 4 due to the 120v pump plugging into the back of the controller but you mention having to also plug the controller into 120v power. 30A Probably all I need but Electrician friend asked if I wanted to do 40A & weather or not we need a neutral for anything running on 120v.
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highland_brewer
Short Circuited Brewers
Yes you will need a 30 amp circuit (Brewcommander and element power) AND a 15 amp 120v circuit (Pump power)
(In actuality you could run a 4 wire, replace the main plug with a 4 wire 240V plug for the neutral needed, and not need the 120v plug with some rewiring inside the BrewCommander.)
If you are not savvy on electrical wiring you probably would want to tackle this.
thanks,
I’m definitely not. Electrician is moving in a couple doors down. I’m making friends
Cato1507
Well-Known Member
Nice video! The BC certainly made my brew day a lot easier and more enjoyable.
It's like having an assistant watching over things in the garage, while I duck inside during mash to weigh out hops, check mash ph, get lunch, a cup of coffee, etc.
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Bringing back this thread. Just watched the video. Thanks for doing that.
One thing I liked about this when I was at the NHC was the mash ramp. The way it was described to me was you set the mash ramp to x degree(s) per minute and the control ramps each step based on that setting. So if it was set to 1°F per minute, it would go from 135°F to 145°F in 10 minutes. The controller would control the power to make sure it was ramping at the set parameter. But from the video, it seems like it is just a timer based on your system and the ramp from each step is at 100% power all the time. Is that right? That seems like a dumb option to put in if it really doesnt control anything.
Edit: just read the manual. Sounds like the step timer would start as soon as the wort was heated instead of starting when the next temp is reached. The mash ramp is a manual timer so the next step timer isnt started right away...if I'm reading it correctly. This seems like a backwards way of doing that. Why not program it so the timer doesnt start until the set temp is reached. I was excited for this controller but if that's how it really works, I'm passing on it.
One thing I liked about this when I was at the NHC was the mash ramp. The way it was described to me was you set the mash ramp to x degree(s) per minute and the control ramps each step based on that setting. So if it was set to 1°F per minute, it would go from 135°F to 145°F in 10 minutes. The controller would control the power to make sure it was ramping at the set parameter. But from the video, it seems like it is just a timer based on your system and the ramp from each step is at 100% power all the time. Is that right? That seems like a dumb option to put in if it really doesnt control anything.
Edit: just read the manual. Sounds like the step timer would start as soon as the wort was heated instead of starting when the next temp is reached. The mash ramp is a manual timer so the next step timer isnt started right away...if I'm reading it correctly. This seems like a backwards way of doing that. Why not program it so the timer doesnt start until the set temp is reached. I was excited for this controller but if that's how it really works, I'm passing on it.
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highland_brewer
Short Circuited Brewers
It is not a "reach the temp and start the timer" It is a predictive setting. You can adjust the percentage of power that is applied to get to the temp but you would have to adjust the ramp time as well.
highland_brewer
Short Circuited Brewers
I understand your disappointment, however in a HERMS system the HLT usually reaches temp long before the MT actually reaches the same point. Other systems may be more "responsive" but in a HERMS system I think you might want to delay the timer a little to allow the mash to reach the step temp.
Right, that what my understanding was after reading the manual. Wouldnt it be better to just program the controller to start the timer as soon as the temp is hit? Doesnt matter if it takes 5 minutes or 30 minutes. The element keeps the mash at 135°F for 20 minutes. Ramps up to 145°F after 20 minutes. Timer starts once mash reaches 145°F. Seems odd to have to tell the program the ramp will take x amount of time so dont start the actual mash timer until after the ramp timer. What happens if for some reason it takes longer one day to reach a certain step? Will you have to manually adjust the controller so the mash timer doesnt start yet?
that would be a more simple approach. as Brian noted, if you are using a herms you can build in more time delay while the mash tun temp catches up. I don't know how valuable this is. maybe theres more lag with larger batches.
I dont know too much about herms systems but isnt the thermo probe still in the mash tun? So the hlt heats the passing wort until the mash tun hits the right temp then the step timer starts. The mash ramp just seems like a manual timer that the controller can easily do
With a single controller, temp probe is in the kettle/hlt, not the mash tun. but I suppose you could put a thermowell in both vessels and swap it. Its close to the same as delaying the timer until you hit your temp. theres a lag in the mash tun heating up so you can either do it this way or add extra minutes to your mash step.
Cato1507
Well-Known Member
I did my first step mash a week ago with a witbier just to try it. Mashed in at 120 for 20 minutes and set second step for 152 for 55 min and pressed start. Controller held mash at 120 for 20 min and then ramped to 152 and didn't start the timer until it reached 152 and held that for 55 min.
Worked great as far as I was concerned.
This little controller makes my brew days so much easier than before and once I start the mash program I can leave the garage for the duration and go do other things.
Did it start the timer when it hit 152°F exactly or did it just happen that the ramp timer was very close to being right on and you didn't notice the timer started right when the ramp timer hit 0:00? It looks like when the 120°F step reaches the set time, it will start to ramp up to the 152°F step and a timer will start counting down on the bottom based on the inputted degree per minute parameter. If it actually started because it hit 152°F and not the timer, then I have no clue what the mash ramp parameter is for.
Cato1507
Well-Known Member
Once the 20 min 120f nash step was done it ramped to 152F and I guess I'll have to watch it closer next time to see if it went by allotted ramp degrees per minute or when it hit the 152F.
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LittleRiver
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For the time estimate to reach the temp target?
Let's be very clear on this... In the mash program mode, each step timer starts after the mash ramp timer runs out.
The ramp timer is based on Ramp Rate (which you program into the advanced menu) x Temp delta of the step (IOW if the previous step was 150F and the next step is 160F, that's a 10F delta. If you have it set that your ramp rate is 1F per minute, it will show "ramp" on the program for 10 minutes, then it will begin that steps normal timer.
Yes I understand why a controller for a RIMS or HERMS system would benefit from this, or at least operate in a best case scenario when the probe is in the HLT. During a ramp from 150 to 160, the HLT would reach 160 relatively quickly and then the "ramp" time would be how long the full mash actually took to get there.
My argument against this operation is twofold.
1. The speed of mash ramping is both dependent on batch size and in batch gravity. In flexible batch size systems, you'd have to change the ramp setting back and forth.
2. The BC is capable of multi-vessel control, but by its very nature it's very well suited as a BIAB system. In a BIAB system, you really do want the timer to start on "temp reached".
Long story short, using the mash schedule would be best leveraged by measuring ramp times in a few of your various typical batches and either averaging it out or making a chart. It just depends on how much you care about precision.
The ramp timer is based on Ramp Rate (which you program into the advanced menu) x Temp delta of the step (IOW if the previous step was 150F and the next step is 160F, that's a 10F delta. If you have it set that your ramp rate is 1F per minute, it will show "ramp" on the program for 10 minutes, then it will begin that steps normal timer.
Yes I understand why a controller for a RIMS or HERMS system would benefit from this, or at least operate in a best case scenario when the probe is in the HLT. During a ramp from 150 to 160, the HLT would reach 160 relatively quickly and then the "ramp" time would be how long the full mash actually took to get there.
My argument against this operation is twofold.
1. The speed of mash ramping is both dependent on batch size and in batch gravity. In flexible batch size systems, you'd have to change the ramp setting back and forth.
2. The BC is capable of multi-vessel control, but by its very nature it's very well suited as a BIAB system. In a BIAB system, you really do want the timer to start on "temp reached".
Long story short, using the mash schedule would be best leveraged by measuring ramp times in a few of your various typical batches and either averaging it out or making a chart. It just depends on how much you care about precision.
Cato1507
Well-Known Member
Yes, @Bobby M that's what I ran into a variance in ramp temp when I went from a 4.5 gal batch BIAB to a 3 gallon. I noticed how much faster my degrees per minute increased when I was heating to strike temp.
It was my first step mash and I didn't consider at the time how it would affect the mash ramp timer. Good idea to record those because I often do 3 and 4.5 gal batches.
Yeah next brew day remember to watch the ramp timer on the bottom and see what happens when either the unit hits your desired temp or that ramp timer hits 0:00
Right but Cato1507 is saying he believes the mash timer started when it hit his desired temp and the ramp timer didn't do anything. However that isn't how I understood the manual.
Exactly what I was thinking. I BIAB and the thought of having a ramp timer doesn't make sense to me. I've never used RIMS or HERMS so I can't comment on those types of systems but for BIAB, the step mash should use temp and not a ramp timer. Originally I thought the ramp rate was to tell the system how many degrees you want the ramp to increase per minute. I like to ramp slowly to let the mash temp to stay a little longer in the temp ranges as each step ramps to the next. A ramp rate (as described to me originally) would have been the option that put me into this product. Knowing what it really does, actually pushes me away from it. I think Blichmann screwed up on that (at least for a BIAB setting).
It makes sense that Blichmann would lack in the single vessel solution. You design around how you brew for the most part and I don't think any of those guys are running BIAB. I hesitate to accuse motive, but BIAB doesn't sell a lot of kettles and Herms coils if you catch my drift.
That's not to say BIAB doesn't actually have a ramp time. It does but it's just quite short. On a 6 gallon batch with about 13 pounds of grain, I see a ramp of about 2F per minute.
By the way, we're nit picking to the extreme here. The BC makes for a very capable BIAB controller. Even if your ramp time is mis-programmed a little, your step mashed step might be a minute short or long and that has never ruined a batch of beer.
You also don't have to use the mash scheduler. Even if I'm step mashing say 120F for 10 min, 148 for 45 and then 156 for 20, I can acheive all that just by running on the home screen and setting the standalone timer. Beep beep... set new temp and time.
Your last comment about ramping slowly is completely doable as well. On the home screen when you set your new temp you want to ramp to, just set the power level to 10% and it will take its sweet ass time getting to the next step.
That's not to say BIAB doesn't actually have a ramp time. It does but it's just quite short. On a 6 gallon batch with about 13 pounds of grain, I see a ramp of about 2F per minute.
By the way, we're nit picking to the extreme here. The BC makes for a very capable BIAB controller. Even if your ramp time is mis-programmed a little, your step mashed step might be a minute short or long and that has never ruined a batch of beer.
You also don't have to use the mash scheduler. Even if I'm step mashing say 120F for 10 min, 148 for 45 and then 156 for 20, I can acheive all that just by running on the home screen and setting the standalone timer. Beep beep... set new temp and time.
Your last comment about ramping slowly is completely doable as well. On the home screen when you set your new temp you want to ramp to, just set the power level to 10% and it will take its sweet ass time getting to the next step.
simply starting the time when it reaches set temp makes more sense. looks like an unnecessary control with the BC. it does require you to be close, otherwise it doesn't really seem to matter which way the time works
B.C. just arrived. Can’t fire up yet as my circuit is not yet wired. Minor gripes on visual inspection, it’s pretty small and doesn’t weigh much, the 10/3 cable leads probably outweigh the box. This would probably be better mounted than sitting on a table. Maybe not an issue, but I thought with the heavy cables it might topple easy. My real gripe is the crappy 1ft plug for 120v power. Annoying that it Needs an extension cord unless you mount it right in front of an outlet. Everything else looks good and I’m sure will be a Nice controller. I don’t think I could done better near this price point.
I think if you did that you'd overshoot as the element would keep heating the HLT until the mash hit the new temp. If the MLT lags behind the HLT (and I think it does in most HERMS rigs), the HLT would get too hot being heated while waiting for the MLT to catch up.
I have set mine up at the kettle... so the MLT will lag behind a few minutes catching up to set mash temp. this is where that Ramp timer thing comes in. but you could just as easily note the lag time and add that to your mash step. you also have a "herms offset" feature. the lag shouldn't be much if you check temp in the MLT.
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Just FYI, you can rewrite the box to have the cables come out the bottom.
Edit: Rewire, not rewrite.
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This is a case where Blichmann dropped the ball on a huge design opportunity to make desk mount and wall mount take 60 seconds. If the base "L" shaped half of the enclosure was made to a right triangle, it could have been unscrewed and flipped 90 degrees without rewiring a single thing. Nope, have to remove literally ever conductor from the internals and move all the cord grips. While you're in there, you might as well hardwire some longer cables to reach whatever you're plugging in to. I often rewire the 5-15p and L6-30P to be supplied by a single 14-30P cord set.
Ha! Yep. It was a process. It took me almost an hour to rewire it. But, I’m also a moron, so there’s that. [emoji482]
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