that would be a more simple approach. as Brian noted, if you are using a herms you can build in more time delay while the mash tun temp catches up. I don't know how valuable this is. maybe theres more lag with larger batches.
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I dont know too much about herms systems but isnt the thermo probe still in the mash tun? So the hlt heats the passing wort until the mash tun hits the right temp then the step timer starts. The mash ramp just seems like a manual timer that the controller can easily do
With a single controller, temp probe is in the kettle/hlt, not the mash tun. but I suppose you could put a thermowell in both vessels and swap it. Its close to the same as delaying the timer until you hit your temp. theres a lag in the mash tun heating up so you can either do it this way or add extra minutes to your mash step.
Cato1507
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I did my first step mash a week ago with a witbier just to try it. Mashed in at 120 for 20 minutes and set second step for 152 for 55 min and pressed start. Controller held mash at 120 for 20 min and then ramped to 152 and didn't start the timer until it reached 152 and held that for 55 min.
Worked great as far as I was concerned.
This little controller makes my brew days so much easier than before and once I start the mash program I can leave the garage for the duration and go do other things.
Did it start the timer when it hit 152°F exactly or did it just happen that the ramp timer was very close to being right on and you didn't notice the timer started right when the ramp timer hit 0:00? It looks like when the 120°F step reaches the set time, it will start to ramp up to the 152°F step and a timer will start counting down on the bottom based on the inputted degree per minute parameter. If it actually started because it hit 152°F and not the timer, then I have no clue what the mash ramp parameter is for.
Cato1507
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Once the 20 min 120f nash step was done it ramped to 152F and I guess I'll have to watch it closer next time to see if it went by allotted ramp degrees per minute or when it hit the 152F.
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LittleRiver
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For the time estimate to reach the temp target?
Let's be very clear on this... In the mash program mode, each step timer starts after the mash ramp timer runs out.
The ramp timer is based on Ramp Rate (which you program into the advanced menu) x Temp delta of the step (IOW if the previous step was 150F and the next step is 160F, that's a 10F delta. If you have it set that your ramp rate is 1F per minute, it will show "ramp" on the program for 10 minutes, then it will begin that steps normal timer.
Yes I understand why a controller for a RIMS or HERMS system would benefit from this, or at least operate in a best case scenario when the probe is in the HLT. During a ramp from 150 to 160, the HLT would reach 160 relatively quickly and then the "ramp" time would be how long the full mash actually took to get there.
My argument against this operation is twofold.
1. The speed of mash ramping is both dependent on batch size and in batch gravity. In flexible batch size systems, you'd have to change the ramp setting back and forth.
2. The BC is capable of multi-vessel control, but by its very nature it's very well suited as a BIAB system. In a BIAB system, you really do want the timer to start on "temp reached".
Long story short, using the mash schedule would be best leveraged by measuring ramp times in a few of your various typical batches and either averaging it out or making a chart. It just depends on how much you care about precision.
The ramp timer is based on Ramp Rate (which you program into the advanced menu) x Temp delta of the step (IOW if the previous step was 150F and the next step is 160F, that's a 10F delta. If you have it set that your ramp rate is 1F per minute, it will show "ramp" on the program for 10 minutes, then it will begin that steps normal timer.
Yes I understand why a controller for a RIMS or HERMS system would benefit from this, or at least operate in a best case scenario when the probe is in the HLT. During a ramp from 150 to 160, the HLT would reach 160 relatively quickly and then the "ramp" time would be how long the full mash actually took to get there.
My argument against this operation is twofold.
1. The speed of mash ramping is both dependent on batch size and in batch gravity. In flexible batch size systems, you'd have to change the ramp setting back and forth.
2. The BC is capable of multi-vessel control, but by its very nature it's very well suited as a BIAB system. In a BIAB system, you really do want the timer to start on "temp reached".
Long story short, using the mash schedule would be best leveraged by measuring ramp times in a few of your various typical batches and either averaging it out or making a chart. It just depends on how much you care about precision.
Cato1507
Well-Known Member
Yes, @Bobby M that's what I ran into a variance in ramp temp when I went from a 4.5 gal batch BIAB to a 3 gallon. I noticed how much faster my degrees per minute increased when I was heating to strike temp.
It was my first step mash and I didn't consider at the time how it would affect the mash ramp timer. Good idea to record those because I often do 3 and 4.5 gal batches.
Yeah next brew day remember to watch the ramp timer on the bottom and see what happens when either the unit hits your desired temp or that ramp timer hits 0:00
Right but Cato1507 is saying he believes the mash timer started when it hit his desired temp and the ramp timer didn't do anything. However that isn't how I understood the manual.
Exactly what I was thinking. I BIAB and the thought of having a ramp timer doesn't make sense to me. I've never used RIMS or HERMS so I can't comment on those types of systems but for BIAB, the step mash should use temp and not a ramp timer. Originally I thought the ramp rate was to tell the system how many degrees you want the ramp to increase per minute. I like to ramp slowly to let the mash temp to stay a little longer in the temp ranges as each step ramps to the next. A ramp rate (as described to me originally) would have been the option that put me into this product. Knowing what it really does, actually pushes me away from it. I think Blichmann screwed up on that (at least for a BIAB setting).
It makes sense that Blichmann would lack in the single vessel solution. You design around how you brew for the most part and I don't think any of those guys are running BIAB. I hesitate to accuse motive, but BIAB doesn't sell a lot of kettles and Herms coils if you catch my drift.
That's not to say BIAB doesn't actually have a ramp time. It does but it's just quite short. On a 6 gallon batch with about 13 pounds of grain, I see a ramp of about 2F per minute.
By the way, we're nit picking to the extreme here. The BC makes for a very capable BIAB controller. Even if your ramp time is mis-programmed a little, your step mashed step might be a minute short or long and that has never ruined a batch of beer.
You also don't have to use the mash scheduler. Even if I'm step mashing say 120F for 10 min, 148 for 45 and then 156 for 20, I can acheive all that just by running on the home screen and setting the standalone timer. Beep beep... set new temp and time.
Your last comment about ramping slowly is completely doable as well. On the home screen when you set your new temp you want to ramp to, just set the power level to 10% and it will take its sweet ass time getting to the next step.
That's not to say BIAB doesn't actually have a ramp time. It does but it's just quite short. On a 6 gallon batch with about 13 pounds of grain, I see a ramp of about 2F per minute.
By the way, we're nit picking to the extreme here. The BC makes for a very capable BIAB controller. Even if your ramp time is mis-programmed a little, your step mashed step might be a minute short or long and that has never ruined a batch of beer.
You also don't have to use the mash scheduler. Even if I'm step mashing say 120F for 10 min, 148 for 45 and then 156 for 20, I can acheive all that just by running on the home screen and setting the standalone timer. Beep beep... set new temp and time.
Your last comment about ramping slowly is completely doable as well. On the home screen when you set your new temp you want to ramp to, just set the power level to 10% and it will take its sweet ass time getting to the next step.
simply starting the time when it reaches set temp makes more sense. looks like an unnecessary control with the BC. it does require you to be close, otherwise it doesn't really seem to matter which way the time works
B.C. just arrived. Can’t fire up yet as my circuit is not yet wired. Minor gripes on visual inspection, it’s pretty small and doesn’t weigh much, the 10/3 cable leads probably outweigh the box. This would probably be better mounted than sitting on a table. Maybe not an issue, but I thought with the heavy cables it might topple easy. My real gripe is the crappy 1ft plug for 120v power. Annoying that it Needs an extension cord unless you mount it right in front of an outlet. Everything else looks good and I’m sure will be a Nice controller. I don’t think I could done better near this price point.
I think if you did that you'd overshoot as the element would keep heating the HLT until the mash hit the new temp. If the MLT lags behind the HLT (and I think it does in most HERMS rigs), the HLT would get too hot being heated while waiting for the MLT to catch up.
I have set mine up at the kettle... so the MLT will lag behind a few minutes catching up to set mash temp. this is where that Ramp timer thing comes in. but you could just as easily note the lag time and add that to your mash step. you also have a "herms offset" feature. the lag shouldn't be much if you check temp in the MLT.
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Just FYI, you can rewrite the box to have the cables come out the bottom.
Edit: Rewire, not rewrite.
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This is a case where Blichmann dropped the ball on a huge design opportunity to make desk mount and wall mount take 60 seconds. If the base "L" shaped half of the enclosure was made to a right triangle, it could have been unscrewed and flipped 90 degrees without rewiring a single thing. Nope, have to remove literally ever conductor from the internals and move all the cord grips. While you're in there, you might as well hardwire some longer cables to reach whatever you're plugging in to. I often rewire the 5-15p and L6-30P to be supplied by a single 14-30P cord set.
Ha! Yep. It was a process. It took me almost an hour to rewire it. But, I’m also a moron, so there’s that. [emoji482]
So I used the brewcommander for the first time the other night. Not nearly as hands off as I was hoping for, especially during the mash. Basically it would never get to the set mash temp. It seems to scale back as it gets close. It would always get within a degree or so and then start falling. Would fall 2-3 degrees than start increasing again. So the one mash step i set never started its timer. Not a huge deal I just set a custom one. Also i had to fiddle with the temp a lot as there was a lag between MT and HLT so I just kept adjusting the set temp based on where the MT was. Boil went better and didnt really have to adjust at all once i got it rolling.
What kind of system do you have? Where is the temp probe installed? Nevermind... I saw your other thread. 2 vessels, originally going to be a kettle RIMS but you ran it as a HERMS with a counterflow chiller. The temp probe is on the boil kettle output leading into the jacket of the Exchillerator CFC and that gets pumped back into the boil kettle. In this configuration it's acting just like HERMS coil in a HLT where the probe is installed in the HLT.
You CAN do it that way but you will have to experiment with both the RAMP TIME and the RIMS OFFSET. First, put a separate digital thermometer into your mash bed and run the system at say 150F for about 15 minutes. Measure the actual temp of the mash. If it's at 145F then you set your rims offset to 5F. Now when you set the mash temp to 150F it will actually run your kettle's HERMS water at 155F going into the heat exchanger. Next, change your set temp 3 degrees hotter and start a timer immediately. When the digital thermometer in the mash reaches the set temp, note the time it took to get there. That's your ramp rate setting. Please note that if you continue doing it this way, make sure you always use the same volume of water in the boil kettle because variation here will affect your ramp time quite a bit.
Again, the mash timer starts based on the ramp rate you have set. It has nothing to do with the next temp actually being reached. This is corroborated in the user manual as well as actual testing.
Edit to add more: Another option for your current setup is to move the temp probe to the wort output of the CFC. The controller will then heat the kettle water to the temperature required to make the CFC wort output closer to the desired mash temp. Don't misunderstand me, you will still have offset and ramp time but the offset will be smaller.
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Hoptimus Prime
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Quick question for other BC users - mine works great, I have it for a one-vessel 120V BIAB. I got it to hold an accurate temp to 0.1oC by changing the cycle time(advanced settings) from 5 sec to 2 sec, and the control band from 3oC to 2oC. This way it gets closer to my desired mash temp faster at 100% power then alternates on/off faster for greater accuracy. I found at the default setting of 5 sec cycle time that I have getting a 0.5-1oC alternating under and overshoot. My temperature probe is inline along my re-circulation path just after the kettle out, so it is sampling the wort just after it is heated, my grain bed sits at ~ the same with re-circulation.
My question is can other people save their altered settings? Every time I boot up the BC it forgets my adjusted settings and I need to change it to Celsius and then make those two adjustments in the advanced settings. Not the end of the world but annoying. Might need to do the factory reset option and try again.
My question is can other people save their altered settings? Every time I boot up the BC it forgets my adjusted settings and I need to change it to Celsius and then make those two adjustments in the advanced settings. Not the end of the world but annoying. Might need to do the factory reset option and try again.
Zooksta
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I have the same issue, the BC does not save my adjusted settings.
Hoptimus Prime
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That's not great. I just sent an inquiry to Blichmann as if this is a missing feature it would have been nice to know beforehand, or if they can recommend an easy fix in case the BC is not behaving properly and it should be able to save setting changes.
Zooksta
Well-Known Member
Let us know what Blichmann has to say.
They are aware of this issue and are working on it. It is supposed to save the settings. I had exchanged some emails with them a few weeks ago when I noticed it didn't always save.
I initially thought maybe I had to keep the controller plugged in between brew sessions, but that didn't solve the issue for me.
I initially thought maybe I had to keep the controller plugged in between brew sessions, but that didn't solve the issue for me.
Ugh. From the pics I've seen, there's no general comm port on the Brew Commander that would allow a firmware update in the field.
That may come back to haunt Blichmann...
That may come back to haunt Blichmann...
That being said, there are so many other phenomenal features, unavailable in a stand alone controller, that having to enter these in each time is tolerable. For me, anyway.
I can understand that 
My comment was aimed more towards Blichmann Engineering saying it should retain settings then noticing there's no evident way to stuff the fix in a sold unit without it taking a ride to the mothership and back...
Cheers!
My comment was aimed more towards Blichmann Engineering saying it should retain settings then noticing there's no evident way to stuff the fix in a sold unit without it taking a ride to the mothership and back...
Cheers!
Zooksta
Well-Known Member
Agreed, I guess I need to write down my adjusted settings though so I can re enter them the same every session
Hoptimus Prime
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Yah I haven't heard back from Blichmann yet. Unfortunate, but your right micraftbeer that the BC does so many other things well that this is only a minor inconvenience, and at the price its just a good deal. If I had known up front I would have still purchased the BC, just would have been nice to know. Hopefully Blichmann can come up with a hotfix, but the lack of port will make that difficult.
I think that is what it is. you probably have to send it back for programming. which is disappointing.
Doesn't it have a microSD slot? I thought I read that somewhere
I don’t see one
Zooksta
Well-Known Member
Here's the response I received from Blichmann along with an update file. So, there is a micro sd card slot on the board inside the controller..
We have seen this on a few controllers and have worked with our software folks to get this corrected.
See link and attachment below.
BrewCommander software update
https://www.blichmannengineering.com/pub/media/wysiwyg/pdf/Updating_BrewCommander_Software_v1.pdf
Software update: See attached file.
We have seen this on a few controllers and have worked with our software folks to get this corrected.
See link and attachment below.
BrewCommander software update
https://www.blichmannengineering.com/pub/media/wysiwyg/pdf/Updating_BrewCommander_Software_v1.pdf
Software update: See attached file.
Cool beans! Maybe a tad inconvenient to remove the cover but way better than a factory update...
Cheers!
Cheers!
I received the same email this morning.
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FYI for whoever...
I just tested mine with a water run for the first time. fumbling through everything as its a new process. I found the ramp timer annoying and hope they can re-program the BC to start mash steps based on set temp being reached.
10 gallon test for the kettle, pumped 5 over to the tun. (I love the pump-on button) the practice mash steps kept starting too early at a programmed 3degree per minute rise. wasn't organized enough to time it. Short Circuited Brewer recommended starting at 1degree per minute ramp and checking time from there. I would agree.
I'm using a 25' immersion coil in the kettle as a herms. 5500w element, temp probe is 4.5" from bottom, 1" above element & 5" to the right of element. my strike water ramp was 4 & 5 degrees per minute. only other thing to note was that at 207degress on the BC I was boiling in the kettle.
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