Brew Masters on Discovery w/ Sam Calagione

[cmmcdonn]

The move to dump it was genius.

Of course they could have sold every last drop of it as a limited edition, and even though I would still buy a bottle of it, I would never forget that they bottled a mistake as a new item. Are they Microsoft or something?

They displayed on national television that they have strict quality standards and that they stick to them even if it means taking a pretty big hit.

They will inevitably gain much more from dumping that batch on camera than the $500k they have lost.

 

[GaryJohn]

The move to dump it was genius.

Of course they could have sold every last drop of it as a limited edition, and even though I would still buy a bottle of it, I would never forget that they bottled a mistake as a new item. Are they Microsoft or something?

They displayed on national television that they have strict quality standards and that they stick to them even if it means taking a pretty big hit.

They will inevitably gain much more from dumping that batch on camera than the $500k they have lost.

They will gain much more, perhaps, but what about all the people all over the world that could have used that beer...people starving that could really use the calories...they all lose.

Call me old fashioned, but I only see it as a waste of food and a waste of booze. I understand they have a reputation, but they just moved down a peg in my eyes.

What about a bread factory that makes a huge batch of bread that doesn't taste just right? Should they just destroy it? I don't think so, personally. Beer > bread.

 

[IffyG]

Seems like DFH is damned if they do, damned if they don't in this situation (and anything else cover in the show). It's pretty obvious from this thread that people just want to hate on them no matter what decisions they make...

 

[jgln]

They will gain much more, perhaps, but what about all the people all over the world that could have used that beer...people starving that could really use the calories...they all lose.

Call me old fashioned, but I only see it as a waste of food and a waste of booze. I understand they have a reputation, but they just moved down a peg in my eyes.

What about a bread factory that makes a huge batch of bread that doesn't taste just right? Should they just destroy it? I don't think so, personally. Beer > bread.

My mother used to work at a large supermarket chain (years ago) and when I asked her about the stuff that was too old to sell and what they did with it she said they threw it out and could not give it away. My guess is some stuff gets sent back to be recycled but the point is they could not give it away, had to be disposed of.

I thought that was a shame too with homeless people and all but from a business perspective proabably smart. How many people would take expired free food over paying full price?

 

[GaryJohn]

My mother used to work at a large supermarket chain (years ago) and when I asked her about the stuff that was too old to sell and what they did with it she said they threw it out and could not give it away. My guess is some stuff gets sent back to be recycled but the point is they could not give it away, had to be disposed of.

It's sad. People could use it, but perhaps there isn't the infastructure or logistics to get it where it needs to go.

In terms of beer, I would have donated it to a distiller, and see what could be done in terms of salvage.

 

[smmcdermott]

^ Donating alcohol to poor countries is also a lot different then donating sweet bread.

 

[jgln]

It's sad. People could use it, but perhaps there isn't the infastructure or logistics to get it where it needs to go.

In terms of beer, I would have donated it to a distiller, and see what could be done in terms of salvage.

Muffin bottoms??

 

[Yunko]

+10,000 as to why a company that "thinks outside of the box" would dump $1/2 MIL worth of beer that was perfectly fine but out of spec.

I'm fairly certain they didn't actually dump it and just blended and served at their brewpub.

But that begs the question: Why in the hell would they fudge the facts for the show - now the public at large just sees the bad management.

*irk

 

[Frodo]

I think this show must have been filmed in early 2009. The tree-house was in Beer Wars and there was a February 2009 date on one of the beer cases.

My bet is that this was actually filmed as the pilot episode, but they realized they needed more of a hook for the audience than just "making beer" - so I'm guessing they bumped the more exciting (to the general viewer) "international" shows up to the head of the line. Once you have people watching, you can throw in more of the science of brewing like was highlighted a bit more in this episode which would likely bore people if it was the first episode.

 

[Randar]

you're telling me sam is creative enough to put out some of the weird things he's put out, but not enough to do something with an off-flavored 120?

Yeah, you could throw it in barrels and add some funky junky to it and who knows?

I guess as a businessman you do have to know when to walk away and write it off. You will spend time, money and resources trying to save it and no guarantee it is worth saving.

Besides, if it turned out awesome it might have been unrepeatable!

 

[KevinW]

The way I see it is that somebody at Dogfish Head seems to know a little about what they are doing hence their success so I would have to assume the order to dump the beer is based on a logical commercial brewery standpoint!

Of course no beer lover in their right mind would want to see that beer go to waste but when you have the volume of production that they have, it can be a lot more costly to have have product taking up space and resources when you can be getting other product out the door!

I actually liked the cedar beer episode and hope to see more like it, otherwise I have been kind of on the fence about the whole thing!

 

[Kriznac]

I thought it would have been cool to see them do something like a limited time dock sale or something. Like five bucks to fill a corny, ten bucks for a sankey. It's not like they would recoup a bunch of money from this but it would be cool to throw a bone to all their local fans.

 

[knelson]

I'm fairly positive that this is not the ONLY mishap that has ever happened in commercial brewing. If everyone started covering their blemished by blending or other techniques. Can you image the amount of crap that would be on the market right now? I can see it now...Dogfish Head Toilet Water brew "Didnt quite meet our standards but we didn't think you'd notice".

Sure it may be a bit of a publicity stunt, but why not take advantage of the brand that Sam has build (not only DFH but in himself as well).

 

[GaryJohn]

^ Donating alcohol to poor countries is also a lot different then donating sweet bread.

Oh, it's very different! It won't spoil in transit, it lifts people's spirits even more, and in short its a much better gift.

 

[iaefebs]

If you pause on the charts you will see that they knew for at least 25 days that the fermentation was stuck. As professionals brewers they did or tried everything known to try to correct the problem. This wasn't something that a few tasters discovered one day and it was dumped shortly after that taste test. I bet everyone that worked there knew that the Big Gun Jammed, and before tasting knew it was going to be sweet. This was just edited for TV.

 

[dvdanny]

The way I see it is that somebody at Dogfish Head seems to know a little about what they are doing hence their success so I would have to assume the order to dump the beer is based on a logical commercial brewery standpoint!

Of course no beer lover in their right mind would want to see that beer go to waste but when you have the volume of production that they have, it can be a lot more costly to have have product taking up space and resources when you can be getting other product out the door!

I actually liked the cedar beer episode and hope to see more like it, otherwise I have been kind of on the fence about the whole thing!

Agreed, i think people don't realize that in business Time AND space equals money and that beer taking up space was just not practical for a relatively small brewery like DFH. Sure they could have stored it until they brewed a beer that could be properly blended with it and sell it as a special one off, but what about all the other brews that needed to be put out to keep the company afloat? Business is all about cash flow, keeping barrels and barrels of bad beer you have no idea how to fix is not a good way to keep the cash flowing, specially if it's taking up space that some other beer that can be put out to market sooner needs.

It's sad. People could use it, but perhaps there isn't the infastructure or logistics to get it where it needs to go.

In terms of beer, I would have donated it to a distiller, and see what could be done in terms of salvage.

As sad as it is, it's still all about money. Looking for a way to use stuff you can't sell isn't that easy nor is it cheap.

I don't think a distiller would have taken it, they are all pretty particular about what they put into their "distiller's beer" and I doubt they would have had the warehouse space to accommodate a special one off 120min IPA Whiskey much like how DFH didn't have the space to accommodate the beer in the first place. I don't even know how the logistics would work for transporting that much liquid beer and keeping it sanitary.

 

[Beernip]

The move to dump it was genius.

Of course they could have sold every last drop of it as a limited edition, and even though I would still buy a bottle of it, I would never forget that they bottled a mistake as a new item. Are they Microsoft or something?

They displayed on national television that they have strict quality standards and that they stick to them even if it means taking a pretty big hit.

They will inevitably gain much more from dumping that batch on camera than the $500k they have lost.

Good will and a $500k tax write off. My guess is that they won't owe any taxes this year. Most likely the beer was worth more as a write off then what they could get from selling it at cost or additional marketing/labeling costs.

 

[lamarguy]

If you pause on the charts you will see that they knew for at least 25 days that the fermentation was stuck.

I agree. The brewers knew there was a problem well in advance and the TV producers ran with it.

And, the "super secret" mash-in temperature for the test batch of 120min was 143F. Their attempt to hide the temperature probe readout is laughable. Nothing beats slow motion playback on a DVR!

 

[IffyG]

And, the "super secret" mash-in temperature for the test batch of 120min was 143F. Their attempt to hide the temperature probe readout is laughable. Nothing beats slow motion playback on a DVR!

So am I the only one that thought he was just hamming it up for the camera?

 

[logan3825]

Call me old fashioned, but I only see it as a waste of food and a waste of booze. I understand they have a reputation, but they just moved down a peg in my eyes.

I really don't see the big deal. I would be willing to bet every brewery dumps batches.

 

[Clifton]

the "super secret" mash-in temperature for the test batch of 120min was 143F. Their attempt to hide the temperature probe readout is laughable. Nothing beats slow motion playback on a DVR!

So am I the only one that thought he was just hamming it up for the camera?

+1 He seems like a real ham bone. I think he was just being silly as well.

 

[Waunabeer]

Like the show, but did anyone notice how out of sequence these are? The first 3 episodes showed the treehouse in the front, but in this one they are just putting it up.

Also, the yeast specialist (can't remember her name) has different color/style hair throughout the episode. I think they just take pieces here and there to create an hour long show. Builds up the drama one way or the other.

 

[bob1852]

Maybe Sam should come read this thread and take all of our advice on how to run a successful brewery

 

[iaefebs]

+1 He seems like a real ham bone. I think he was just being silly as well.

I agree. The brewers knew there was a problem well in advance and the TV producers ran with it.

And, the "super secret" mash-in temperature for the test batch of 120min was 143F. Their attempt to hide the temperature probe readout is laughable. Nothing beats slow motion playback on a DVR!

Not sure what part of the episode you got the mash temp of 143. The part of the show they tried to hide the digital readout clearly showed the last two numbers as 32 and what looks like a 1 under his thumb. I took it as a readout of 132. I was thinking that if we could see the whole number it would have been 1.132 which converted to plato at 150° would be 35 plato a bit higher than the dumped batches starting 33 plato but way less then some earlier versions that started at (Sam claims) 45 and went to I guess 17 to get 18% ABV I could be wrong about any of this.... except the last two numbers on the meter... definitely 32

 

[joety]

Good will and a $500k tax write off. My guess is that they won't owe any taxes this year. Most likely the beer was worth more as a write off then what they could get from selling it at cost or additional marketing/labeling costs.

Sorry, that just doesn't make any sense. If the brewery is in the 35% corporate tax bracket, a write off of $500K would net them $175K in reduced taxes. If they sell the same batch for $100K, they would incur only a $400K loss, which would save $140K in taxes and generate $100K in sale proceeds, or a net of $240K, much more than the $175K from just dumping the batch.

 

[HItransplant]

Muffin bottoms??

hahahaha

 

[IPAAAA]

When was the latest ep? This show keep changes their air dates and makes it a pain to figure out the right schedule.

 

[superjunior]

like the show, however don't like dfh beer, just not my taste I guess..

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Not sure what part of the episode you got the mash temp of 143. The part of the show they tried to hide the digital readout clearly showed the last two numbers as 32 and what looks like a 1 under his thumb. I took it as a readout of 132. I was thinking that if we could see the whole number it would have been 1.132 which converted to plato at 150° would be 35 plato a bit higher than the dumped batches starting 33 plato but way less then some earlier versions that started at (Sam claims) 45 and went to I guess 17 to get 18% ABV I could be wrong about any of this.... except the last two numbers on the meter... definitely 32

It was most definitely 143.2.... frame-by-frame capable video software FTW!!!

 

[HerotBrewer]

Maybe Sam should come read this thread and take all of our advice on how to run a successful brewery

And maybe while we're all sitting in our kitchens brewing 5-10 gallon batches of homebrew he's laughing all the way to the bank.

Fact 1: He succeeded in going from homebrewing to a brew business when he was in his twenties.

Fact 2: Apparently enough people like his beer that he stays in business.

Fact 3: He scored a TV deal. More power to him. Did we expect perfect reality from it? I hope not. TV is about showmanship and he appears to be quite good at that.

Hate on his brewing all you want, but don't tell me you don't envy him. And yes, dumping $500k of beer does look very damn good for his business. I work at a dairy plant, and if you knew the things that go on everyday, you'd never eat cheese again. Glad to see a firm that is willing to take a financial hit to avoid putting out sub-par product.