Brew Masters on Discovery w/ Sam Calagione

[Bobby_M]

Just because they didn't show it doesn't mean they didn't fill 50 1/2BBL kegs for special occasions and brewpub sales. They will just never label it 120 minute.

 

[Pappers_]

. . . I thought it was funny at the end when they were testing the new batch in the tree house with the surfers, Sam was doing the usual shakedown of a beer that a craft beer lover would do, the other guys were trying to gulp the brew down like they were on spring break or something. . .

I had the same reaction! Sam goes on and on about the aroma, flavor, etc., and asks "what do you think?" and the answer is something like "its good." HAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

[mojotele]

I think that $500K number comes from using the retail price of $9.99/bottle. Obviously the batch did not cost the brewery that much at that point in production and distribution cycle. Still, a fair chunk of change for a small business.

It absolutely did. Something else to keep in mind, though, is that DFH is a profit-sharing company so their employees get paid based on how much they sell. So, every time they dump beer the employees see it as "lost" money (even though they never had that money to begin with).

It's not quite the same as your paycheck getting cut in half as most people are paid at a fixed rate. These guys may have a fix rate pay but they also have a variable amount coming from the profit sharing. I'm sure that makes little difference to the DFH employees. They see it as a pay cut. Hence the drama.

 

[Eddiebosox]

My first taste of 120 was not a good one. It tasted like bad cough syrup. The a few months ago at a beer bar here in dc some brewers who were in town brought out a 2003 vintage of 120. THE hops were much more subdued and it was quite good. Its definitely something to treat as more of a liquor. Age it and sip it.

 

[humann_brewing]

Didn't you mean "you're games."

I agree, pretty cool episode so far....

A little bit of brewing process, troubleshooting, etc...

nope

 

[TheWeeb]

It absolutely did. Something else to keep in mind, though, is that DFH is a profit-sharing company so their employees get paid based on how much they sell. So, every time they dump beer the employees see it as "lost" money (even though they never had that money to begin with).

It's not quite the same as your paycheck getting cut in half as most people are paid at a fixed rate. These guys may have a fix rate pay but they also have a variable amount coming from the profit sharing. I'm sure that makes little difference to the DFH employees. They see it as a pay cut. Hence the drama.

I say it again, going from $0 in 1995 to over $12 million in annual sales, with over 100% growth - yes, doubling - every year since 2003, this company and its employees are not going to be hurt by the loss of this brew. It is a drop in the proverbial bucket.

 

[BeerWars]

this is what I'm wondering. they have a brewpub that they test beers on. Admit the mistake, keg it, maybe add something like this quote says, and sell it at $1 or $2 on tap at the eatery? who would complain? they'd make much of that back.
Remember, there are no mistakes in brewing, there are only limited special releases

First off - That was a GREAT show! IMO each episode is better than the last. Maybe they are doing that intentionally. I don't surf, but those boards were pieces of art.

I was thinking the same thing. Hard to know what to do without tasting it.

With the taste in my head - My ideas were:
1) Bottle it as Super Limited Edition "Sweet 120 min IPA" $15 a bottle. or
2) Bottle it as "oooooops 120 min IPA" Sell it at cost for promotional purposes (my beer shop says that DFH has been flying off the shelves since the show and can't keep any in stock).
Have a Holiday bomber pack with a "120" and a "oooooops 120." I know I would have bought it for myself and one for my brother in law.
Give it away on a brew tour so that people can taste the difference.
Have it as cheap beer at the restaurant.

I understand that they need to preserve the Brand and want to keep the highest quality standards. But I am from a "waste not, want not" frame of mind. I know I wanted to see what it tasted like (ironically it's the only DFH beer that I really want to taste). They made the decision that made financial sense. Oh well.

Anyone figure out what the $500,000 figure is? I was assuming that was the wholesale cost, but wondering what the actual cost of the batches that were tossed.

 

[mlyday]

This episode was obviously filmed before the others, based on the treehouse was allready there in the others. I kind of wonder if the expansion they are doing in episode 2 or 3, was to add some tank space to hold an off brew like this til they can figure out what to do with it. 500k is alot to wash down the drain.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Anyone figure out the tax implications of writing off $500k.

Did dumping this hurt as bad as it sounds...

 

[Montanaandy]

Just because they didn't show it doesn't mean they didn't fill 50 1/2BBL kegs for special occasions and brewpub sales. They will just never label it 120 minute.

From the looks on the faces of management as well as the brewery workers, I doubt that they kept any of it. While the brewmaster asst. stated that it was "good beer" I think that was more of a PR move. I mean they are not going to say that they produced "bad beer". The consensus among the tasters was that it was cloyingly sweet.

I also think that they would have pointed that out - the fact that they were salvaging some of it. No, I think that they actually poured $500K worth of beer down the drain.

I thought that it was interesting that they went back to an 06 batch for guidance. They did not like the later batches from what I can recall although I may be mistaken.

My take on all this was that this was an expensive wake-up call for them and that they have to be more careful with all of the balls that they are juggling (continually experimenting and trying to create new beers, producing proven favorites while at capacity, etc.). They took their eye off the ball on one of their flagship products and got burned.

Thought it was interesting that the brewmaster was shielding the mash temp from the camera - claimed that it was proprietary. Any guesses at what mash temp they mash that beast at? Montanaandy

 

[Mmenges]

I find it laughable that so many people on here are criticizing DFH for dumping the beer. I've read people saying it should've been blended or sold as a special edition.

Every poster on here would be blasting Sam for not sticking to selling high quality beer if that had gone out the door. I give him credit for making the decision to dump it instead of selling an inferior product.

 

[JeffBeck]

Are full episodes available on the net for viewing?

 

[kpr121]

Thought it was interesting that the brewmaster was shielding the mash temp from the camera - claimed that it was proprietary. Any guesses at what mash temp they mash that beast at? Montanaandy

Whatever it was, I bet it was lower than the batch that they dumped!

 

[Montanaandy]

I find it laughable that so many people on here are criticizing DFH for dumping the beer. I've read people saying it should've been blended or sold as a special edition.

Every poster on here would be blasting Sam for not sticking to selling high quality beer if that had gone out the door. I give him credit for making the decision to dump it instead of selling an inferior product.

I don't think that there is much disagreement that there was no way they should have put it out as DF 120 - it would have kill the brand/segment for that beer.

I do believe that the beer was really, really lousy - otherwise they would have tried to salvage it in some manner. What that would have consisted of, who knows? When you are running a $12 mil per year business you don't just throw away $500K without exhausting all reasonable resources. Montanaandy

 

[motobrewer]

i bet if it wasn't on camera, he might have tried to do something with it.

you're telling me sam is creative enough to put out some of the weird things he's put out, but not enough to do something with an off-flavored 120?

 

[Montanaandy]

Whatever it was, I bet it was lower than the batch that they dumped!

No doubt, although they seemed to be stressing the difficulties that they have with the yeast producing such an off the charts, high alcohol beer such as 120. Montanaandy

 

[Montanaandy]

i bet if it wasn't on camera, he might have tried to do something with it.

you're telling me sam is creative enough to put out some of the weird things he's put out, but not enough to do something with an off-flavored 120?

Good point. Just as they were not going to say that they produced lousy beer while the cameras were rolling they probably would have tried to salvage it if the cameras are not rolling. Much better PR to say that we are going to take a $500K hit because this does not meet our standards than to say that we are going to figure out a way to use this lousy beer somehow. Montanaandy

 

[Jersh]

Anyone here been to the DFH Alehouse in Gaithersburg, MD recently? I was there about 3 weeks ago and they had a beer on tap that was simply called "Dogfish Head Ale". I asked the bartender about it and he told me they haven't really been given much info about it, but the rumor was that it was from a batch of 120 that didn't turn out correct. So my gut tells me that perhaps they didn't pour ALL of the bad beer, that they might have salvaged some of it and spun it off as something else. I did try it, and it was certainly a different type of brew for Dogfish, it was rather boring, it was definitely missing something.

 

[jgln]

I had to go to bed before the end of the show and sorry for asking if this has already been said but did they figure out why the yeast failed to do the job? Can they continue to risk $$ on such a risky brew??

 

[joety]

Not 100% sure that comes from the retail price. They said they dumped 400 bbl (12400 gallons), roughly 132,266 12 ounce bottles at roughly $8.50 a bottle. (Guestimate based on an average cost of a bottle retail, - a 15% markup) Brings the loss up to just over $1,000,000. If you look at a clone recipe and do the math on a 10 gal recipe vs a 12400 gal you will see that it costs roughly 35k in grain alone, after other factors including water hops labor utilities I'm willing to bet its close to 500k. Seeing as how its such a time intensive beer (I know I've tried to clone it.) I'm sure the labor is outrageous.

That makes more sense, and I didn't mean you shouldn't factor in lost profit or the opportunity cost consumed by that batch. I understand their resources are constrained, but clearly they did not incur the cost of finishing and distributing (including the retail markup) the beer yet, both variable costs.

 

[user 40839]

I had to go to bed before the end of the show and sorry for asking if this has already been said but did they figure out why the yeast failed to do the job? Can they continue to risk $$ on such a risky brew??

They didn't give any reason for it, but given the fact that it had high unfermentable sugars (they added more yeast to the test batch in the lab, which didn't work, and mentioned afterwards that they tried yeast fuel and that even if they added "a million times more yeast" that it wouldn't make a difference) the only explanation is that they mashed too high.

 

[jgln]

They didn't give any reason for it, but given the fact that it had high unfermentable sugars (they added more yeast to the test batch in the lab, which didn't work, and mentioned afterwards that they tried yeast fuel and that even if they added "a million times more yeast" that it wouldn't make a difference) the only explanation is that they mashed too high.

Sounds like a lot of costly mistakes. I wonder if anyone got a warning or fired? I know if a stupid mistake on my part cost my company 500k I would be out the door or have at least one foot out.

 

[passedpawn]

I can't believe a little amylase enzymes wouldn't have broken the big sugars up and made that beer more fermentable.

 

[BeerWars]

Sounds like a lot of costly mistakes. I wonder if anyone got a warning or fired? I know if a stupid mistake on my part cost my company 500k I would be out the door or have at least one foot out.

Nah, that is bad business practice. I bet you whoever botched the batch wont make the same mistake twice.

 

[IffyG]

Anyone here been to the DFH Alehouse in Gaithersburg, MD recently? I was there about 3 weeks ago and they had a beer on tap that was simply called "Dogfish Head Ale". I asked the bartender about it and he told me they haven't really been given much info about it, but the rumor was that it was from a batch of 120 that didn't turn out correct.

I was there a few weeks ago when I was visiting friends. Our server described the Dogfish Head Ale as having something from the 60 (I don't remember what she said), the alcohol of the 90 and the hops of the 120... you might be on to something here.

 

[user 40839]

I was there a few weeks ago when I was visiting friends. Our server described the Dogfish Head Ale as having something from the 60 (I don't remember what she said), the alcohol of the 90 and the hops of the 120... you might be on to something here.

Sounds an awful lot like they just blended a batch of 60 with the failed batch of 120, which is what Sam proposed as they were sitting around the conference table. Wow, if that's the case I'd be very disappointed - smile for the cameras, and give 'em a song and dance about the honour of DFH and how they would never sell a product that was in any way defective, and show some beer being dumped. Soon as the camera's off, turn off the valve, and salvage the beer.

 

[klyph]

News flash, reality TV isn't real.

 

[knelson]

I thought it was funny that when they sat down to taste the 3 year vertical (06' 07' and 08' i think) that they preferred the oldest. That beer needs some age on it in my opinion. Of course the 4 year old bottle tasted the best.

The other thing I didnt understand is that they did not have an 09' bottle. When he was holding the 08' version, he made a comment that it was a year to the day that the last batch was brewed. What happened to the 09?

Was I seeing things or was it the delicious Bourbon Cty Vanilla stout I was drinking?

 

[logan3825]

I guess that I am puzzled by the fact that if you had what the brewmasters were deeming "good beer" that you would still dump it. Why not bottle or keg it and make it available to employees? I am assuming that it made more sense from a financial standpoint to free up the tanks for another beer but I was cringing when I saw them dumping so much product (they obviously were too). Montanaandy

I bet a couple employees took some home in growlers.


I think this show must have been filmed in early 2009. The tree-house was in Beer Wars and there was a February 2009 date on one of the beer cases.

 

[GaryJohn]

I can't believe a little amylase enzymes wouldn't have broken the big sugars up and made that beer more fermentable.

That's what I was wondering...you'd think they'd add something to the beer to break down the unfermentables rather than dump the batch (travesty!!).

THey should have bottled it and donated it or something. People would have loved to drink that beer. Give it to homeless people...or someone! What a waste...