Brew cider to taste like beer

[steelbrew38]

My goal is brew essentially brew a hard cider that has a “beer” taste to it. I’m trying to give up grains at least for a bit but I sure miss my beer. I find some of the commercial ciders too sweet…I like bitter or even sour tastes and have found some hopped ciders that seemed close to what I wanted but figured I’d try it myself. I brew beer but never have brewed hard cider. I’m an IPA/Pale Ale guy mostly but also have been getting into saison/sours. Looking for some feedback on proposed 1 gallon experimental recipes to achieve this beer like flavor:

IPA Clone for Hard Cider:
~ 1 gallon of Organic Apple Cider (maybe from Whole Foods)
0.5 ounces of either Citra or Simcoe hops (this where I’m not too sure with cider)
~0.5 lb honey
yeast- either Wyeast 1056 or may try Omega Hothead

• Make a starter for the yeast
• Heat cider between 150-160 degrees and add 0.5 ounces of hops for 30 minutes
• Pitch yeast when hopped cider is cooled to room temp
• Primary ferment 1 week.
• Secondary ferment 1-2 weeks then drink

or for a Saison/Sour’ish Clone for Hard Cider
same as above only use 16 fluid ounces of raspberry juice and use a saison yeast (WLP 565).

 

[mikerlynch26]

Overall, cider is a different animal than beer, but there are elements of beer you can bring into the cider world. As for the sweetness, that's a personal taste, it's actually easier to make bone dry cider rather than sweet. The two elements I can think of you already mentioned, hops and sourness.

Your recipe looks good, except for the heating of the juice (must). You're volatilizing flavor and aroma compounds during such a long heating process, and since you're using store bought juice, it's shelf stable already, so no need for pasteurization. If you're doing this process to extract bitterness from the hops, I'd suggest something like the Hop Shot, which is an isomerized hop oil that can be added directly to the cider to increase bitterness, no heating required. Dry hopping behaves the same as beer, obviously taste as you go along to determine how hoppy you want it.

Sourness is something that already exists in the cider world, a lot of the same funky bacteria and yeast in sour brewing is used in cider making, with similar effects. Apple juice comes with it's own acidity already though, so make sure you're adjusting for that and not making vinegar. There hasn't been a lot of this kind of cider making in the US, but a lot of European ciders have some funky stuff going on.

In my, and some other peoples experience, saison yeast's don't do too well in cider, (weird off flavors), but your mileage may vary. English beer yeast (Nottingham) has worked well for a lot of people. One thing I'd suggest is using yeast nutrient at pitching and probably during the ferment as well. Apple juice doesn't have the same nutrients beer wort has, and it tends to stress the yeast (sulfur smells/flavors, oftimes referred to as 'rhino farts' on the forums).

Cider really is more like wine, so the techniques used to make really good cider usually follow winemaking tradition rather than brewing. Generally speaking, unless you're pasteurizing, cider making is a totally "heat-less" process.

Long post, riding the second coffee caffeine wave...

 

[steelbrew38]

Great info MikerLynch! Appreciate it. I never knew about Hop shot on the beer side. Will give that a try. Maybe I'll try 1 batch like that and another with heating the hops just to experiment with results as I'm making small quantities and will not mind if I produce a dumper.

I guess when it comes down to it if I want beer, brew beer. if I want cider, brew cider! I figured that was the case but wanted to see if I could possibly fit a square peg into a round hole.
Thanks again.

 

[Paps]

You `could` boil the hops seperately in a small amount of water that you then blend into your cider must. W/e drop in gravity then could be countered by adding frozen juice concentrate.