Brett noob w/ questions

[ReverseApacheMaster]

You can make a starter if you want. When you get those blends the brett will only work as a secondary fermenter. It's going to take about six month, maybe more, to reach FG. It's going to have plenty of time to build up a sufficient number of cells.

 

[dcp27]

1) unless its significantly underpitching, I wouldnt bother with making a starter with the farmhouse blend. saison yeast is a beast and the brett will metabolize any of the potential excess esters. since it's just the two strains, no harm in making one tho.

2) since it'll act like a secondary addition, yes. im not totally sure with as a primary since I usually keg it a few weeks before bottling. the braggot I bottle conditioned was definitely much funkier a year later tho, but any others i haven't kept around long enough to kno

 

[Burgs]

I am going to try a test batch this week, if at all possible. Let me know what you think of this recipe. I don't want too much to get in the way of the brett c.

2.5 gallon batch

4 lbs Belgian Pilsner (80%)
1 lbs Munich (20%)

0.5 oz. French Strisselspalt (60 min)
0.5 oz. French Strisselspalt (flameout)

OG: 1.058
IBU: 30
SRM: 5.2

Pitch a 2x stepped up starter of the White Labs Brettanomyces Claussenii.

I have the Munich in there mainly for color adjustment. I know there were some suggestions to add acidulated malt, but I don't have any. Let me know what you think of the grain bill - I want it to be simple but not boring.

I also thought about making the flameout addition 1.5 oz., as I do have two ounces of the Strisselspalt, but I think I've been overdoing it with late additions on all my other beers (if there is such a thing). I think I'm going to go with 0.5 ounces @ flameout and if after fermentation and conditioning is complete, if it needs some more hop flavor, I'll dry hop it with that last ounce.

This will get bottle-conditioned in bombers and thicker walled Boulevard 12 oz. bottles. Let me know what you think!

 

[Sebas83]

The waiting will blow out a lot of hop aroma and much flavor. That's why a lot of lambics use aged hops and are only in for bittering.

Just a thought though. My experience with late hop additions in bretts is quite low.

 

[dcp27]

The waiting will blow out a lot of hop aroma and much flavor. That's why a lot of lambics use aged hops and are only in for bittering.

what waiting? an all brett beer doesnt take much longer than a normal sacch beer.

 

[Sebas83]

Oh duh! My mistake. I keep forgetting that this is about brett as a primary.

Carry on!

 

[Burgs]

I think I'm just gonna pull the trigger and brew it. Desperately need more fermentation space though, wow.

Also considering doing a dubbel or quad (something dark and Belgian) with the WLP510 and then letting some Jolly Pumpkin & Boulevard Saison Brett dregs go nuts on it in secondary.

 

[Coff]

Burgs, Im going down this road for the first time at virtually the same time you are. I brewed a 15 gallon batch of Jamil's Best Bitter, 10G for Burton Ale yeast and 5G got a 1L starter of Brett C as a 100% Brett fermentation.

Im kind of jumping in feet first but fermentation took off pretty quickly, probably under 6 hours. I was expecting a bit of lag time with the Brett but I guess not. For the first 2 days (pitched on Monday) the Brett was giving off a ton of Sulfur.

I woke up this morning and its slowing down, still a bit of Krausen but definitely slowing.

 

[Burgs]

Burgs, Im going down this road for the first time at virtually the same time you are. I brewed a 15 gallon batch of Jamil's Best Bitter, 10G for Burton Ale yeast and 5G got a 1L starter of Brett C as a 100% Brett fermentation.

Im kind of jumping in feet first but fermentation took off pretty quickly, probably under 6 hours. I was expecting a bit of lag time with the Brett but I guess not. For the first 2 days (pitched on Monday) the Brett was giving off a ton of Sulfur.

I woke up this morning and its slowing down, still a bit of Krausen but definitely slowing.

Cool, since you are doing a similar 100% brett c beer - feel free to post more replies and let me know how it goes, when it finishes up, etc.

I'm wondering if I can get away with making a starter for the brett tonight and brewing with it tomorrow instead of stepping it up multiple times, since I'm only using it on a 2.5 gallon batch.

 

[Coff]

Tasted my Brett C pale ale yesterday, gravity at 1.014 after 10 days in primary. The Krausen dropped a few days ago so I figured I'd check it out. Here are my notes.

"Aroma: Not a ton of Brett aroma but I can pick it up after a few whiffs. Smells a bit hoppy, tiny bit of roasted malts.

Taste: Roasty upfront then the hops hit you and it finishes with a bit of funk. It almost has the after taste of soy sauce, I'm not sure how I feel about that but it's only 10 days in primary so there is likely work to be done yet."

 

[Burgs]

Made my starter of brett c. last night - no activity yet but I'll give it some time, and I periodically rouse and shake it. The vial itself was curious looking to me, as I'm used to using Wyeast smack packs and pitching more like a slurry into my carboys or starters. This was very liquidy looking, almost just like wort or beer really - I'm guessing there's a smaller cell count in these vs. a smack pack?

 

[dcp27]

the brett vials have a very small cell count (like 1/10th IIRC). they're meant for secondary use, so it can take a bit to build them up

 

[Coff]

I know alot of people let their brett starters go for a week to 10 days bc of the low cell count, I let mine go for 5 days and it seemed to be fine.

 

[Burgs]

I know alot of people let their brett starters go for a week to 10 days bc of the low cell count, I let mine go for 5 days and it seemed to be fine.

Oh wow, that's even a bit longer than I thought. I think I'll schedule my brew day for Monday then.

Did you step yours up a few times - or did it just take 5 days to actually reach peak activity?

 

[Coff]

Well, this is my first all brett experience so take it for what its worth, I didnt step it up at all. I felt that if I did a moderate sized starter for ~5 days I would get enough growth to get the job done, I guess you could call it cutting corners.

I did a 750ML starter that I got good activity from by the time I pitched, I used some yeast nutrient and some intermittent shaking of the starter. By brewday it smelled great, I pitched and had activity within 12 hours.

 

[Burgs]

What did your starter smell like, exactly? Mine doesn't smell bad but I wouldn't call it fruity or anything like that. It actually reminds me of a smell that I didn't really enjoy that I got out of a batch of English mild a little while ago - kind of a harsh sour grainy smell. A little sourdough-y maybe. That yeast was S-04 and the smell/flavor wasn't there in the finished beer but I hated the smells that batch gave off in primary.

I'm starting to see some stuff settle out to the bottom, nothing really interesting on top though. I do hope I've made the right choice picking this yeast strain for a 100% fermentation on a pretty basic blonde beer. Almost dumped some Jolly Pumpkin dregs in there last night but resisted the temptation...

 

[Coff]

My starter put out a Sulfur smell for a few days, as did the fermentation for a few days. Once I pitched it it was smelling pretty funky so I got excited. I wouldnt worry about it, from what Ive read your picking a good strain for 100% brett fermentations. I actually think youre going to get a better result with your base recipe then mine, Im not so sure I will get the result I was looking for but we will see.

Dont pitch the dregs of a Jolly Pumpkin beer bc you be including Pedio and Lacto I believe. Someone with more knowledge can correct me if I am wrong since I am still a noob. I think your beer would be very good with that addition but it would take longer and be fairly sour.

 

[dcp27]

yup, the JP dregs would have added in 2 strains of sacch, pedio, lacto, and whatever brett they get in their air. they make for a great sour tho so i recommend building up those dregs for another beer at some point

the brett C should be great solo in that blond.

 

[Burgs]

The reason I didn't pitch the dregs is exactly as you guys mentioned - the non-brett microbes. Part of the reason I wanted to do this 100% brett is so I wouldn't have to wait a year to drink it.

Maybe what I'm smelling is what most people refer to as sulfur, I dunno... to me, I've always associated sulfur with egg farts, I guess.

 

[Burgs]

Smelling much better this morning, I think I'm going to step it up with a dose of fresh wort tonight!

 

[Coff]

Nice, let us know how the brewday goes.

Im shooting for a 6-8 week primary on mine, Im about 2 weeks in.

 

[Burgs]

I will be curious to hear where yours is at when you hit the six week mark. I'm hoping that mine won't need to be in primary much longer than that. It can spend many, many months longer in the bottle (and I hope it does), but I hope I can get it in and out of a carboy in a similar time frame.

 

[Burgs]

Brew day went pretty well, despite the fact that I wanted to brew a biere de garde the same day and that yeast ended up being dead.

By the time I pitched my started it was on its fifth day. On Saturday I had made a little bit more wort to step it up with, so altogether I probably pitched almost 1L. I didn't decant, which made for a full carboy, but I feared that I'd be pouring out too much yeast that would've been floating around.

I have activity & a little layer of krausen and hop material up in the top, and it's been 12 hours or so.

One thing I did wonder - my starter, at a few points, gave off slight plastic smells. There were some good aromas in there too, and I didn't get the plastic every time I went to smell it, but it was definitely there a few times. Is this normal & does it normally make it into the finished product?

 

[Coff]

I didnt notice any plastic smells from my starter but tbh there were tons of smells going on in my brew room that week. Between the Brett C starter and a Burton Ale starter it was kind of stinky.

How is it coming along? Id think the krausen would be dropping by about now?

Mine has an ever changing dusty white pellicle on it, really cool looking. I'll snap a photo and post it tonight, assuming it hasnt changed and isnt so cool looking anymore.

 

[Burgs]

The krausen climbed up to the top of the neck of my 3 gallon Better Bottle and has since dropped back down to a thin cap. I still get some gurgling in my blowoff container, but will probably replace it with a regular airlock tonight.

Popped the top off last night and took a smell - awesome! If I was smelling it blind, I'd probably guess that it was just a Belgian saach yeast of some kind, smells bready, estery and a little phenolic. I didn't smell any of the plasticy aroma that I had been getting from the starter.

It's still very cloudy and murky, of course, being less than one week old, but a lot of the trub has settled to the bottom. Hopefully I'll be able to take a taste in 4-5 weeks!

 

[Coff]

Yea mine is still really cloudy to, from what Ive read Brett is a low flocculator when used as a primary strain. Sounds like the aroma on yours is pretty similar to mine, no real Brett aromas but Im sure they will come out with time.

 

[Burgs]

You plan on bottle conditioning yours? I'm hoping to be able to keep at least a few of these around for a while since it's my first brett batch. Got some Jolly Pumpkin bottles, some bombers and some thicker walled 12 ozers ready.

 

[Coff]

Yea Im going to bottle condition, Im not quite reading to keg a Brett'ed beer. Im kind of afraid of cross contamination there and am fine with these beers being bottled any since Id like to age it a decent amount.

I believe that Duvel bottles, the short stumpy ones, are thicker walled and should be good for what we are doing. My plan was to buy a case of it each of the next few weekends and save those bottles for this and other batches.

 

[Coff]

If I'm wrong about the Duvel bottles please correct me.

 

[dcp27]

cross contamination shouldnt be an issue. i dont find brett any harder to clean/sanitize and dont keep separate equipment for them.

the duvel bottles should work great