Brau 120V 20A or High Gravity EBC-LT 120V? Help!!

[jrcrilly]

I think that most of us would enjoy reading this thread much more if the endless repetition were to end. The "point" was made and understood the first few times. It isn't any more valid because it has been repeated ad nauseum. In fact, the credibility drops with each argumentative restatement of the same opinion because it looks like an attempt to forward some private agenda rather than to persuade (any potential for persuasion went away pages ago). The mission, whatever it is, is as complete as it will ever be. Let's let the noise level drop so that civil discourse can proceed, OK?

 

[augiedoggy]

I think that most of us would enjoy reading this thread much more if the endless repetition were to end. The "point" was made and understood the first few times. It isn't any more valid because it has been repeated ad nauseum. In fact, the credibility drops with each argumentative restatement of the same opinion because it looks like an attempt to forward some private agenda rather than to persuade (any potential for persuasion went away pages ago). The mission, whatever it is, is as complete as it will ever be. Let's let the noise level drop so that civil discourse can proceed, OK?

What agenda?? I tried to do a comparison based on functionality and build quality and all I get in return is " You don't get it Dave Rocks man, drink the cool aid " and attacks. They are the ones with the agenda to defend the choices they already made. I goofed up with one statement and they jump all over it like everything true that I said along with it is null because of it. The people that have no idea what in the box or how it works are telling me that I don't know what I'm talking about?

Your right though that I made my point and the HG fanboys made theirs ...

BTW in regards to my ssrs, over a year ago I upgraded to a teledyne dual ssr to save space in my panel along with a fotek I still use which has worked fine with my 25a omron relays.

 

[tmendick]

I say again, let all just whip it out and compare size and calm down . Not one person has submitted a fact in this entire forum, it's all opinion.

1. What does a vigorous boil look like?
2. Do I need a yeast starter?
3. What is the best electric brewery solution?
4. I need a recipe critique.

Everyone needs to calm down just a bit, it's only beer remember?

 

[pretzelb]

I think that most of us would enjoy reading this thread much more if the endless repetition were to end. The "point" was made and understood the first few times. It isn't any more valid because it has been repeated ad nauseum. In fact, the credibility drops with each argumentative restatement of the same opinion because it looks like an attempt to forward some private agenda rather than to persuade (any potential for persuasion went away pages ago). The mission, whatever it is, is as complete as it will ever be. Let's let the noise level drop so that civil discourse can proceed, OK?

Getting back to the very first post I found myself drawn to the Brau SV120 (and then later the 240v model). I read good things from others like TexasWine about Brau Supply and his customer support. From a store front point of view I prefer the work he put into his web site design. I also tend to give bonus points to a seller who includes videos of their products. It might seem foolish but I really think videos help a bunch with a product like this that might be a new experience for a buyer like me. Cosmetically I find the cases used by Brau supply really cool because they remind me of headphone amps but that's just me. I'm still leaning to a full system from Colorado Brewing but if I decided to piece my own system I will probably go with the 240v controller from Brau. Only thing that bugs me about Brau is the owner looks to be in way better shape than me.

The Brau SV120 happens to be the same price as the HG unit in the original post. I have no idea if that means it is over priced as well. The owner from Brau once posted his entire part list and cost in response to a similar comment about the price being too high. I just skimmed the post but it looks like someone tried to say $220 was too much for a controller that cost $164 in parts. I guess that means $56 is too much for labor/profit.

 

[tmendick]

The thing about it is that you will probably be happy with whichever model you go with. I have seen very little negative reviews for any of these systems as far as usability, people will always say one is better than the other it really boils down to what system do you want to look at for a few hours each brewday. I'm no expert, but I have a feeling that they have very similar parts overall so should function almost equally.

 

[augiedoggy]

The Brau SV120 happens to be the same price as the HG unit in the original post. I have no idea if that means it is over priced as well. The owner from Brau once posted his entire part list and cost in response to a similar comment about the price being too high. I just skimmed the post but it looks like someone tried to say $220 was too much for a controller that cost $164 in parts. I guess that means $56 is too much for labor/profit.

See now I dont think $220 or even $320 is too much for that control panel...In fact its pretty much the same parts and effort that goes into that panel as the 240v HG and jagger ones that were just being discussed... Only the brau uses better quality enclosure switches and has an alarm.. dispite using cheaper 120v variants of an outlet and plug. $56 in labor is a long way from $300+ for labor on something that was easier and less expensive to build when you break it down.

 

[bobbytuck]

The Brau SV120 happens to be the same price as the HG unit in the original post. I have no idea if that means it is over priced as well. The owner from Brau once posted his entire part list and cost in response to a similar comment about the price being too high. I just skimmed the post but it looks like someone tried to say $220 was too much for a controller that cost $164 in parts. I guess that means $56 is too much for labor/profit.

I'm no electrical expert -- so I'm happy to pay Steven or Dave a profit. I know folks who are electrical experts -- or who have some experience with building stuff like this -- will say it's a simple build. That may be, but (a) it's not something I want to do and (b) the turnkey approach appeals to me.

BTW -- the other difference between Steven's systems and Dave's system is that Dave uses a Chugger pump. Steven uses a smaller (and, I'd suspect, just as effective) pump. A Chugger or a March is probably overkill for either system, and as I'm using Dave's system right now (literally, as I type this) I've toyed with the idea of going to the smaller pump.

I don't have the chugger mounted on wood -- and that's probably what I need to do -- but I have it sitting on top of an upturned bucket about 18 inches down from the kettle out. Chugger in is pointing down, Chugger out pointing up. I found I had to do this to get a decent enough drop to prevent air getting in the lines when I first start it. I thought about putting in a bleeder valve -- but I didn't want to mess around with taking everything apart, installing the second ball lock, and then Teflon-taping everything back up (lazy, I know).

Anyway, my thought -- and I might not be correct here -- is that the smaller pump might be something I could just put on the counter (as Steven does in the photos of the system and in the videos).

Finally, what I do like about the HG system -- and this goes for what I've seen of Steven's system, too -- is that it's really simple. Easy to set up, easy to take down and clean. My days of 10 gallon, 3 kettle HERMS in the backyard were fun -- but exhausting. The indoors BIAB is great -- and everything stows away nicely in the kettle after the brew.

 

[augiedoggy]

The thing about it is that you will probably be happy with whichever model you go with. I have seen very little negative reviews for any of these systems as far as usability, people will always say one is better than the other it really boils down to what system do you want to look at for a few hours each brewday. I'm no expert, but I have a feeling that they have very similar parts overall so should function almost equally.

I agree here... Which is why I would pick the best value if it were me... Especially if the more attractively priced options have better components used in thier build. One with say $6 switches instead of plastic type. This way for example you wont need a warranty every time the little 50cent plastic pump power switch contacts fail.

 

[bobbytuck]

$56 in labor is a long way from $300+ for labor on something that was easier and less expensive to build when you break it down.

Where do you get $300 labor for Dave's current 120V system?

I'm using this:

http://www.highgravitybrew.com/store/pc/EBC-SV-with-Infinite-Power-Control-272p3986.htm


You're saying there's only $95 in parts there? If so, where is the parts list for the current system? Has Dave posted that here?

Apart from the alarm -- which is a nice touch but probably not a necessity -- how is that system different from this one?

http://brausupply.com/collections/e...oducts/brau-20a-120v-electric-brew-controller

Steven's is 50 bucks cheaper, I see that. But HG's has an extra switch to turn the heat on or off (from what I see). That's nice -- it means I can cut the heat for the whirlpool. Personally, I'd rather have that than an alarm.

Remember, too -- apart from the controllers -- that HG's 120V system has the Blichmann Boil Coil -- which is a great addition.

 

[augiedoggy]

I'm no electrical expert -- so I'm happy to pay Steven or Dave a profit. I know folks who are electrical experts -- or who have some experience with building stuff like this -- will say it's a simple build. That may be, but (a) it's not something I want to do and (b) the turnkey approach appeals to me.

BTW -- the other difference between Steven's systems and Dave's system is that Dave uses a Chugger pump. Steven uses a smaller (and, I'd suspect, just as effective) pump. A Chugger or a March is probably overkill for either system, and as I'm using Dave's system right now (literally, as I type this) I've toyed with the idea of going to the smaller pump.

I don't have the chugger mounted on wood -- and that's probably what I need to do -- but I have it sitting on top of an upturned bucket about 18 inches down from the kettle out. Chugger in is pointing down, Chugger out pointing up. I found I had to do this to get a decent enough drop to prevent air getting in the lines when I first start it. I thought about putting in a bleeder valve -- but I didn't want to mess around with taking everything apart, installing the second ball lock, and then Teflon-taping everything back up (lazy, I know).

Anyway, my thought -- and I might not be correct here -- is that the smaller pump might be something I could just put on the counter (as Steven does in the photos of the system and in the videos).

Finally, what I do like about the HG system -- and this goes for what I've seen of Steven's system, too -- is that it's really simple. Easy to set up, easy to take down and clean. My days of 10 gallon, 3 kettle HERMS in the backyard were fun -- but exhausting. The indoors BIAB is great -- and everything stows away nicely in the kettle after the brew.

I was only comparing the control panels .. not the compiled "systems". Camlocks
are another cheap way to prime the pumps btw.. just crack it open till the air bleeds out and lock it back down.

 

[TexasWine]

Only thing that bugs me about Brau is the owner looks to be in way better shape than me.

I think @brausupply is a cyclist.

 

[augiedoggy]

Where do you get $300 labor for Dave's current 120V system?

I'm using this:

http://www.highgravitybrew.com/store/pc/EBC-SV-with-Infinite-Power-Control-272p3986.htm


You're saying there's only $95 in parts there? If so, where is the parts list for the current system? Has Dave posted that here?

Apart from the alarm -- which is a nice touch but probably not a necessity -- how is that system different from this one?

http://brausupply.com/collections/e...oducts/brau-20a-120v-electric-brew-controller

Steven's is 50 bucks cheaper, I see that. But HG's has an extra switch to turn the heat on or off (from what I see). That's nice -- it means I can cut the heat for the whirlpool. Personally, I'd rather have that than an alarm.

Remember, too -- apart from the controllers -- that HG's 120V system has the Blichmann Boil Coil -- which is a great addition.

I was talking about daves 240v control panel... there are the same cost components to build either except the plug ,cord and outlet. the 120v sytem would likely come in around $120 his cost in parts.
the Brsu system you linked uses a better aluminum case as well as better quality switches as well as the alarm. it does lack the redundant manual knob which isnt needed with a pid with a manual pwm mode (especially 120v). Although the manual mode on these auber controllers apparently is more work than the mypins I'm used to using which are simple to switch between manual and pid mode with..

 

[bobbytuck]

the 120v sytem would likely come in around $120 his cost in parts.

Yes -- but you say "likely". What are his parts? Where is his parts list?

You seem to know the specific parts in Dave's system -- either his 240V or his 120V system -- but where, specifically, has he posted his parts list for his current systems?

 

[augiedoggy]

Yes -- but you say "likely". What are his parts? Where is his parts list?

You seem to know the specific parts in Dave's system -- either his 240V or his 120V system -- but where, specifically, has he posted his parts list for his current systems?

well theres the auber pid which retails for $47 he likely gets them for closer to $40,
the $22 carlon brand hardware store junction box (enclosure) he again buys in bulk for less.
he either uses an ssvr with a potentiometer or a cheaper SCR unit for his manul boil control - $10-20 depending retail (cheaper in bulk)
2 50cent switches,

ssr (the mager brand ones auber rebrands and sells actually retail elswhere for $11 with a heatsink included.)
a contactor or relay for his element kill switch ($9-10 retail)

20a? 120v plug ($7-10 retail)
duplex 20a 120v outlet ($1.81 retail)
misc wire and cord.. $15

some of the stuff I quoted retail prices rather than guess the discounted bulk buy prices hes likely payig but you can get the point... Bottom line his markup is higher than anyone elses I've compared.

AGAIN honestly theres no magic vodoo in his control panel that makes them cost more to build for what they do...

Its just another version of the same controllers other sellers and DIY people build, use and sell everyday... His are made with more cost effective cheaper components on the outside (besides the pid) but I gave him the benefit of the doubt on the components hes using inside.

Dave even eluded to the fact that he charges what he does because he can, not because he cant charge much less and still make a good profit.
I suppose he has other aspects of his business like the marketing which he does more of than his competitors which hurts his customers more in this case than it helps from what I can see.

 

[pretzelb]

Steven's is 50 bucks cheaper, I see that. But HG's has an extra switch to turn the heat on or off (from what I see). That's nice -- it means I can cut the heat for the whirlpool. Personally, I'd rather have that than an alarm.

Oh, my bad. My eyes aren't what they used to be. Now I see the $50 price difference.

I should have also noted that when Brau Supply broke down the part cost it was for a previous version of the product. The mini 15a controller now sells for $249 and not the previous $220 quoted in the post.

Personally I think it is rude to ask for such a price breakdown but I have to hand it to Steven for posting that back in March. To me that shows he must be a quality person to deal with, which is valuable to some of us buyers. Not to mention this doesn't factor in labor time or what you might consider a reasonable rate per hour for such labor.

I'd love to see a separate post where people try and estimate how long it might take to assemble such a panel. It's one thing if you had all the parts in front of you and you did this all day every day. Seems like quite another when this is just one product you offer and most likely you are also in charge of all other tasks in your "company" like mail room, customer support, ordering, billing, web design, research and development. I kind of wonder if people don't value time spent or undersell how much their time is worth.

 

[pretzelb]

I think @brausupply is a cyclist.

Yea I read that in his "about us" I think. I'm a runner myself but he is clearly winning when it comes to burning calories compared to me!

 

[johnsant]

As with all manufacturing you must include personnel cost. This is not a take home project to do as time allows. My time is always worth more when I can be doing something more fun ie. drinking home brew, at the lake drinking home brew, with family drinking home brew and visiting with friends drinking home brew.

 

[pretzelb]

As with all manufacturing you must include personnel cost. This is not a take home project to do as time allows. My time is always worth more when I can be doing something more fun ie. drinking home brew, at the lake drinking home brew, with family drinking home brew and visiting with friends drinking home brew.

I think this is something many people disregard or just can't comprehend. Maybe if I had all the parts in front of me and an insanely detailed how-to manual (and all the tools needed) then maybe I could complete a panel build project in a reasonable amount of time. That would include step-by-step instructions for even the basics like drilling the holes in the panel or soldering the wires.

But what is more realistic for those of us who don't deal with such things on a daily basis is that each and every step is met with 5-15 minute pauses as we look up or double check something before we actually get some work done. And even THAT assumes we fully understand what goes into the instructions and have all the correct parts (which seems unlikely given how often experts end up ordering new parts mid-project).

For people like me who have never even worked on an electronics project taught to grade school children, the cost of building such things is just too much ... unless you are retired.

 

[johnsant]

I'm retired and can afford to buy what I want I may have to wait some due to other things but I will get what I want, and I would rather spend my time doing other things now that I'm getting older.

 

[pretzelb]

I'm retired and can afford to buy what I want I may have to wait some due to other things but I will get what I want, and I would rather spend my time doing other things now that I'm getting older.

Ha! Funny you should say that. I keep thinking that during my retirement I'd like to try learning about electronics and start with some kits made for grade school kids.

 

[brausupply]

Hey Guys!
I haven't trolled the forums for a while and I really appreciate the healthy debate. And Auggie, I like it when you spar with others instead of me! lol. Hey, I'm planning on posting how to build it yourself, as Auggie says, it's not that complicated. I'm trying to make a business, but I also understand if you are wanting to do it yourself. Also, I read that someone wished I had offered a longer warranty. I'm here to back up what I sell for a year. But, that doesn't mean that I'm leaving you out in the cold should something happen. If something were to go wrong, it would most likely be a faulty PID (easily replaced), a faulty or overused SSR, (easily replaced) or a loosening wire. It really is a simple build.
Also, I read someone say that I charge more for the controller than I did previously. That's actually not correct. I sell the controller on it's own for $250, but in a kit you save $30, so I guess you could say it's $220. This has always been the case.
One more thing, and I want to ask you for your inputs.

Would you buy a 20A controller for example, if it was a DIY kit? What would you want to save if you were to assemble it yourselves? Please be reasonable of course but I'm considering it and I value the input (as critical as it may be)...
Fire away!
And I have to say, since I started this I don't get to ride my bike as much as I want to! lol

 

[brausupply]

Oh, and the ink bird stuff, I'm sure it works fine, but I haven't found a controller that handles 15A which is what you need to control a 1500W element. The only controllers to my knowledge that can actually switch a 1500W element are the ranch ETC and the Johnson controllers. Auber has a few but I don't find them to be price point for a switching controller. Please inform me if there is a new option as I am looking for an even better price point to offer with my 3 gallon systems.

 

[brausupply]

Oh and I should add 2000W elements to come soon.

 

[pretzelb]

Also, I read someone say that I charge more for the controller than I did previously. That's actually not correct. I sell the controller on it's own for $250, but in a kit you save $30, so I guess you could say it's $220. This has always been the case.

Oh, that is my bad. I read the other post that listed $220 and I didn't realize that quote was for the package price. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Tedyfinger]

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/reyrios123/2015-12-23 09.34.53 1.jpg

Just updating this old thread. After a lot of going back and for between the Brau 120 or High Gravity 120v controllers, I actually went and got one of the controllers built by Alex from Bru-matic, and I could not be happier with my choice. Alex worked with my budget and recommended what features he thought were important. So at the end I have a 20 amp 120v controller with a dial to controller the boil which is great, and alarm. The turn around for my controller was less than two weeks, I am in love with my little system, for those thinking about going electric please jump in, I just don't see my self using gas never again, the control that you get in your process is priceless.

 

[Tedyfinger]

Here another pic

 

[pretzelb]

Looks great. I like the idea of the dial.

 

[dogpoundbrewery]

How easy is it to set your pid ? I have them in my controller but I never got any paper work for them ! I also have other issues with my controller as well View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1451197987.598161.jpg

 

[augiedoggy]

How easy is it to set your pid ? I have them in my controller but I never got any paper work for them ! I also have other issues with my controller as well View attachment 325585

You can download the directions at auberins.com website.... The pids you have are (XMT 612) actually auber clones so they likely didnt come with very good English directions but they are identical in function to the auber units. Brumatic may not include them anymore for legal reasons? I know someone mentioned that he was doing it at one time.
Or did you buy yours used? I see you still have it set to Celsius..

What kind of issues are you having ? Are you sure they are issues or it is possible its because you have no directions?

I would guess that its a 30a panel? and the big switch is to activate either of the pid outputs and the little switch is to go between the boil kettle pid and the manual knob control for the boil kettle element. ... Everything else looks fairly straight forward.

 

[augiedoggy]

double post

 

[dogpoundbrewery]

Thanks auggiedoggie I bought this controller last year actually Alex built it for me . It's a 30 amp controller with an interlock switch 2 pids which were supposed to be my pin ta4 's 2 pump switches and a boil kettle control switch .When I switch the interlock switch to the boil kettle the controller just makes a buzzing noise and vibrates turning the dial has no effect its doesn't power my heating element in my boil kettle . I need to learn my pids also I sent mine for the hot liquor tank but it's not working of firing the element but that's probably because I don't know how to use the pids yet at least that's what I hoping for . Alex was going to email pid sheets for my pin pids but then after looking at them I realized there weren't my pin pids . I've tried contacting him about the issues but haven't gotten any response back yet .

 

[augiedoggy]

Sounds like you may need to reach Alex... But the directions for the pids are the same as the ones on auberins website for sure..

 

[dogpoundbrewery]

Yeah I played with pids last night thanks auggiedoggy there the same as the aubers . I've been trying to reach Alex for a few days . I'm going to send him an email .