Brau 120V 20A or High Gravity EBC-LT 120V? Help!!

[joebob296]

ok I get everyones point, Let try to keep it to comparing cost and features..

What this High gravity panel http://www.highgravitybrew.com/store/pc/EBC-SV-with-Infinite-Power-Control-272p3986.htm does for$395 (normally $495 but on sale right now) + shipping



That say this http://www.jaggerbushbrewing.com/BBR-10_p_63.html one doesn't for $289 with free shipping

When you compare High gravitys normal prices your looking at about $530 for the same exact thing sold by others for under $300 and the $300 panel is actually in a metal enclosure instead of this $22 home depot junction box http://www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-8-in-x-4-in-Junction-Box-E989N-CAR/100404099

There is more work involved in cutting and mounting in a steel enclosure, I used the same brand of plastic junction box for my build because its the cheapest and easiest alternative I could find. Both these panels are relatively simple with about $150 in parts and have the same pid and all the same functionality but the cheaper box has a better quality pump switch and an indicator light instead of the $50 switch (I have bought some myself) so why does High gravity charge almost twice as much since for all practical reasons it was the cheaper made box?

This is why I feel there are simply smarter options out there...

Compare warranties on the two. One comes with a lifetime warranty(HG) and I could not a lifetime warranty from jaggerbush. I wouldn't mind paying extra for the security of knowing that I can get a replacement at any time.

 

[augiedoggy]

Compare warranties on the two. One comes with a lifetime warranty(HG) and I could not a lifetime warranty from jaggerbush. I wouldn't mind paying extra for the security of knowing that I can get a replacement at any time.

Ok The components in these two panels are so cheap and the likely hood of failures is fairly low(The $45 pid is the more expensive component). Honestly the most likely failure would be the $10 SSR which anyone who owns a screwdriver with no skills but the ability to read the labeled terminals needed can replace.

If dave charges $25 extra for every panel he sold to cover the warranty statistically he would still come out ahead..
I fail to see how paying almost double for the inferior product just to have a warranty most will never use, and many may not even want since it will hamper their excuse to replace the panel in a couple years when they decide they want something newer or different justifies an 80% up front price increase. At these prices, its really more like buying two control panels and having them give you the second one you paid for if there actually is an issue than a warranty!

 

[bobbytuck]

At these prices, its really more like buying two control panels and having them give you the second one you paid for if there actually is an issue than a warranty!

Man, you got some axe to grind.

Have you ever brewed with a HG system? Have you bought one? Have you seen one in person?

If not -- then there's nothing else to say.

HG rocks. Dave rocks.

Boom.

 

[pretzelb]

Compare warranties on the two. One comes with a lifetime warranty(HG) and I could not a lifetime warranty from jaggerbush. I wouldn't mind paying extra for the security of knowing that I can get a replacement at any time.

I think HG has the experience over JaggerBush unless JaggerBush has 9+ years of making panels. HG also has a real brick and mortar store front going for it. I'd also give the advantage to HG for web site design and a better looking panel. Confidence and appearance have a price for most. And as you point out, a warranty can help instill confidence.

Others are willing to take risks to save money and good for them. I bet JaggerBush makes perfectly fine products. I wish both HG and JaggerBush the best of luck in their business and hope customers of both are nothing but happy. I do question anyone who tries to bad mouth either company or ridicule happy customers of either especially when they had no experience with either. For anyone who does that they one thing I can say is:

Just because you can't understand why someone is happy is no reason to try and make them understand why you think they should be miserable.

 

[augiedoggy]

Man, you got some axe to grind.

Have you ever brewed with a HG system? Have you bought one? Have you seen one in person?

If not -- then there's nothing else to say.

HG rocks. Dave rocks.

Boom.

I dont need to...its pretty run of the mill, I have all the same functionality x3 and much more in the panel I made myself for $300...

 

[bobbytuck]

I dont need to... I have all the same functionality x3 and much more in the panel I made myself for $300...

Great.

But I suspect HG's system is better -- and has a better warranty than some budget build you cobble together and claim out of nowhere is 3x better. What does that even mean?

I've owned two HG systems over the past 5 years. There are no issues.

They work great.

They brew great.

And Dave stands behind his warranty. What else is there to say?

Nothing.

This is a weird thread. You're criticizing something you've never seen, much less tried. It's weird. What's the deal? Is it some pride thing? You can't bear to see someone successfully selling a 120V system for $395? Or a 240V system? A system you've never owned, never brewed with.

Makes perfect sense.

 

[augiedoggy]

Great.

But I suspect HG's system is better -- and has a better warranty than some budget build you cobble together and claim out of nowhere is 3x better. What does that even mean?

I've owned two HG systems over the past 5 years. There are no issues.

They work great.

They brew great.

And Dave stands behind his warranty. What else is there to say?

Nothing.

This is a weird thread. You're criticizing something you've never seen, much less tried. It's weird. What's the deal? It's a pride thing, I suspect.Is it some pride thing? You can't bear to see someone successfully selling a 120V system for $395? Does it hurt your pride? You don't like the color of the control panels? You think the switches are the wrong brand? Does it stick in your craw that someone can do it -- and sell -- and have customers that love it?

It is a budget Build! thats my point... I expect you you defend your choice but You have no idea what your talking about here. there are lots of other brand being sold here and I really only have an issue with these because they are the lowest budget built commercially sold panel for the highest prices compared to those.

 

[bobbytuck]

because they are the lowest budget built commercially sold panel for the highest prices compared to those.

How do you even know this? You have no idea. You're going by something you decided 5 years ago -- and only decided it because you read it on a forum.

Are you going by the price alone? Folks like me who *do* know this -- and who have looked at the other builds and *used* other builds -- decided to go with HG because of Dave and his warranty.

 

[augiedoggy]

How do you even know this? You have no idea.

Are you going by the price alone? Folks like me who *do* know this -- and who have looked at the other builds -- decided to go with HG because of Dave and his warranty.

That's all that matters.

Again -- you're criticizing something you've *never* seen or *never* used. How does this even make sense?

Because I broke down the cost of the components! I have most of the stuff that in that panel laying around leftover from the 2 that I built. The case is $22 the pid is $45 the pump switch is 50 cents the ssr is $10 the heatsink is $4 and ssvr and potentiometer is $20 together and the contractor is $10 another $50 for the plug and outlets and so on and those are retail prices not he bulk wholesale prices.

That fine that you are now saying you would have still paid so much for the warranty but I would bet many wouldnt and this comparison helps those who dont care about something they wont need... again, its a simple device and any malfunctioning component can be swapped in under 15 minutes with a screwdriver... hardly the type of tech that requires a $240 warranty.

 

[joebob296]

It is a budget Build! thats my point... I expect you you defend your choice but You have no idea what your talking about here. there are lots of other brand being sold here and I really only have an issue with these because they are the lowest budget built commercially sold panel for the highest prices compared to those.

How do you know it's a budget build? You thought the components were still epoxied on...that shows how much you actually know about the construction of the panel. You don't know what your talking about...I know you used the cheap fotek SSR's in your build from another thread you posted on. So your panel was so cheap because you used budget components.

Everyone here knows you have a predisposition to hate HG. Your not even stating facts here, nothing that you have posted has been constructive to the conversation. Your portraying your opinion as fact; which less face it...is completely biased on a product you have never touched, used, or even seen the inside of.

End rant.

 

[jrcrilly]

I think that most of us would enjoy reading this thread much more if the endless repetition were to end. The "point" was made and understood the first few times. It isn't any more valid because it has been repeated ad nauseum. In fact, the credibility drops with each argumentative restatement of the same opinion because it looks like an attempt to forward some private agenda rather than to persuade (any potential for persuasion went away pages ago). The mission, whatever it is, is as complete as it will ever be. Let's let the noise level drop so that civil discourse can proceed, OK?

 

[augiedoggy]

I think that most of us would enjoy reading this thread much more if the endless repetition were to end. The "point" was made and understood the first few times. It isn't any more valid because it has been repeated ad nauseum. In fact, the credibility drops with each argumentative restatement of the same opinion because it looks like an attempt to forward some private agenda rather than to persuade (any potential for persuasion went away pages ago). The mission, whatever it is, is as complete as it will ever be. Let's let the noise level drop so that civil discourse can proceed, OK?

What agenda?? I tried to do a comparison based on functionality and build quality and all I get in return is " You don't get it Dave Rocks man, drink the cool aid " and attacks. They are the ones with the agenda to defend the choices they already made. I goofed up with one statement and they jump all over it like everything true that I said along with it is null because of it. The people that have no idea what in the box or how it works are telling me that I don't know what I'm talking about?

Your right though that I made my point and the HG fanboys made theirs ...

BTW in regards to my ssrs, over a year ago I upgraded to a teledyne dual ssr to save space in my panel along with a fotek I still use which has worked fine with my 25a omron relays.

 

[tmendick]

I say again, let all just whip it out and compare size and calm down . Not one person has submitted a fact in this entire forum, it's all opinion.

1. What does a vigorous boil look like?
2. Do I need a yeast starter?
3. What is the best electric brewery solution?
4. I need a recipe critique.

Everyone needs to calm down just a bit, it's only beer remember?

 

[pretzelb]

I think that most of us would enjoy reading this thread much more if the endless repetition were to end. The "point" was made and understood the first few times. It isn't any more valid because it has been repeated ad nauseum. In fact, the credibility drops with each argumentative restatement of the same opinion because it looks like an attempt to forward some private agenda rather than to persuade (any potential for persuasion went away pages ago). The mission, whatever it is, is as complete as it will ever be. Let's let the noise level drop so that civil discourse can proceed, OK?

Getting back to the very first post I found myself drawn to the Brau SV120 (and then later the 240v model). I read good things from others like TexasWine about Brau Supply and his customer support. From a store front point of view I prefer the work he put into his web site design. I also tend to give bonus points to a seller who includes videos of their products. It might seem foolish but I really think videos help a bunch with a product like this that might be a new experience for a buyer like me. Cosmetically I find the cases used by Brau supply really cool because they remind me of headphone amps but that's just me. I'm still leaning to a full system from Colorado Brewing but if I decided to piece my own system I will probably go with the 240v controller from Brau. Only thing that bugs me about Brau is the owner looks to be in way better shape than me.

The Brau SV120 happens to be the same price as the HG unit in the original post. I have no idea if that means it is over priced as well. The owner from Brau once posted his entire part list and cost in response to a similar comment about the price being too high. I just skimmed the post but it looks like someone tried to say $220 was too much for a controller that cost $164 in parts. I guess that means $56 is too much for labor/profit.

 

[tmendick]

The thing about it is that you will probably be happy with whichever model you go with. I have seen very little negative reviews for any of these systems as far as usability, people will always say one is better than the other it really boils down to what system do you want to look at for a few hours each brewday. I'm no expert, but I have a feeling that they have very similar parts overall so should function almost equally.

 

[augiedoggy]

The Brau SV120 happens to be the same price as the HG unit in the original post. I have no idea if that means it is over priced as well. The owner from Brau once posted his entire part list and cost in response to a similar comment about the price being too high. I just skimmed the post but it looks like someone tried to say $220 was too much for a controller that cost $164 in parts. I guess that means $56 is too much for labor/profit.

See now I dont think $220 or even $320 is too much for that control panel...In fact its pretty much the same parts and effort that goes into that panel as the 240v HG and jagger ones that were just being discussed... Only the brau uses better quality enclosure switches and has an alarm.. dispite using cheaper 120v variants of an outlet and plug. $56 in labor is a long way from $300+ for labor on something that was easier and less expensive to build when you break it down.

 

[bobbytuck]

The Brau SV120 happens to be the same price as the HG unit in the original post. I have no idea if that means it is over priced as well. The owner from Brau once posted his entire part list and cost in response to a similar comment about the price being too high. I just skimmed the post but it looks like someone tried to say $220 was too much for a controller that cost $164 in parts. I guess that means $56 is too much for labor/profit.

I'm no electrical expert -- so I'm happy to pay Steven or Dave a profit. I know folks who are electrical experts -- or who have some experience with building stuff like this -- will say it's a simple build. That may be, but (a) it's not something I want to do and (b) the turnkey approach appeals to me.

BTW -- the other difference between Steven's systems and Dave's system is that Dave uses a Chugger pump. Steven uses a smaller (and, I'd suspect, just as effective) pump. A Chugger or a March is probably overkill for either system, and as I'm using Dave's system right now (literally, as I type this) I've toyed with the idea of going to the smaller pump.

I don't have the chugger mounted on wood -- and that's probably what I need to do -- but I have it sitting on top of an upturned bucket about 18 inches down from the kettle out. Chugger in is pointing down, Chugger out pointing up. I found I had to do this to get a decent enough drop to prevent air getting in the lines when I first start it. I thought about putting in a bleeder valve -- but I didn't want to mess around with taking everything apart, installing the second ball lock, and then Teflon-taping everything back up (lazy, I know).

Anyway, my thought -- and I might not be correct here -- is that the smaller pump might be something I could just put on the counter (as Steven does in the photos of the system and in the videos).

Finally, what I do like about the HG system -- and this goes for what I've seen of Steven's system, too -- is that it's really simple. Easy to set up, easy to take down and clean. My days of 10 gallon, 3 kettle HERMS in the backyard were fun -- but exhausting. The indoors BIAB is great -- and everything stows away nicely in the kettle after the brew.

 

[augiedoggy]

The thing about it is that you will probably be happy with whichever model you go with. I have seen very little negative reviews for any of these systems as far as usability, people will always say one is better than the other it really boils down to what system do you want to look at for a few hours each brewday. I'm no expert, but I have a feeling that they have very similar parts overall so should function almost equally.

I agree here... Which is why I would pick the best value if it were me... Especially if the more attractively priced options have better components used in thier build. One with say $6 switches instead of plastic type. This way for example you wont need a warranty every time the little 50cent plastic pump power switch contacts fail.

 

[bobbytuck]

$56 in labor is a long way from $300+ for labor on something that was easier and less expensive to build when you break it down.

Where do you get $300 labor for Dave's current 120V system?

I'm using this:

http://www.highgravitybrew.com/store/pc/EBC-SV-with-Infinite-Power-Control-272p3986.htm


You're saying there's only $95 in parts there? If so, where is the parts list for the current system? Has Dave posted that here?

Apart from the alarm -- which is a nice touch but probably not a necessity -- how is that system different from this one?

http://brausupply.com/collections/e...oducts/brau-20a-120v-electric-brew-controller

Steven's is 50 bucks cheaper, I see that. But HG's has an extra switch to turn the heat on or off (from what I see). That's nice -- it means I can cut the heat for the whirlpool. Personally, I'd rather have that than an alarm.

Remember, too -- apart from the controllers -- that HG's 120V system has the Blichmann Boil Coil -- which is a great addition.

 

[augiedoggy]

I'm no electrical expert -- so I'm happy to pay Steven or Dave a profit. I know folks who are electrical experts -- or who have some experience with building stuff like this -- will say it's a simple build. That may be, but (a) it's not something I want to do and (b) the turnkey approach appeals to me.

BTW -- the other difference between Steven's systems and Dave's system is that Dave uses a Chugger pump. Steven uses a smaller (and, I'd suspect, just as effective) pump. A Chugger or a March is probably overkill for either system, and as I'm using Dave's system right now (literally, as I type this) I've toyed with the idea of going to the smaller pump.

I don't have the chugger mounted on wood -- and that's probably what I need to do -- but I have it sitting on top of an upturned bucket about 18 inches down from the kettle out. Chugger in is pointing down, Chugger out pointing up. I found I had to do this to get a decent enough drop to prevent air getting in the lines when I first start it. I thought about putting in a bleeder valve -- but I didn't want to mess around with taking everything apart, installing the second ball lock, and then Teflon-taping everything back up (lazy, I know).

Anyway, my thought -- and I might not be correct here -- is that the smaller pump might be something I could just put on the counter (as Steven does in the photos of the system and in the videos).

Finally, what I do like about the HG system -- and this goes for what I've seen of Steven's system, too -- is that it's really simple. Easy to set up, easy to take down and clean. My days of 10 gallon, 3 kettle HERMS in the backyard were fun -- but exhausting. The indoors BIAB is great -- and everything stows away nicely in the kettle after the brew.

I was only comparing the control panels .. not the compiled "systems". Camlocks
are another cheap way to prime the pumps btw.. just crack it open till the air bleeds out and lock it back down.

 

[TexasWine]

Only thing that bugs me about Brau is the owner looks to be in way better shape than me.

I think @brausupply is a cyclist.

 

[augiedoggy]

Where do you get $300 labor for Dave's current 120V system?

I'm using this:

http://www.highgravitybrew.com/store/pc/EBC-SV-with-Infinite-Power-Control-272p3986.htm


You're saying there's only $95 in parts there? If so, where is the parts list for the current system? Has Dave posted that here?

Apart from the alarm -- which is a nice touch but probably not a necessity -- how is that system different from this one?

http://brausupply.com/collections/e...oducts/brau-20a-120v-electric-brew-controller

Steven's is 50 bucks cheaper, I see that. But HG's has an extra switch to turn the heat on or off (from what I see). That's nice -- it means I can cut the heat for the whirlpool. Personally, I'd rather have that than an alarm.

Remember, too -- apart from the controllers -- that HG's 120V system has the Blichmann Boil Coil -- which is a great addition.

I was talking about daves 240v control panel... there are the same cost components to build either except the plug ,cord and outlet. the 120v sytem would likely come in around $120 his cost in parts.
the Brsu system you linked uses a better aluminum case as well as better quality switches as well as the alarm. it does lack the redundant manual knob which isnt needed with a pid with a manual pwm mode (especially 120v). Although the manual mode on these auber controllers apparently is more work than the mypins I'm used to using which are simple to switch between manual and pid mode with..

 

[bobbytuck]

the 120v sytem would likely come in around $120 his cost in parts.

Yes -- but you say "likely". What are his parts? Where is his parts list?

You seem to know the specific parts in Dave's system -- either his 240V or his 120V system -- but where, specifically, has he posted his parts list for his current systems?

 

[augiedoggy]

Yes -- but you say "likely". What are his parts? Where is his parts list?

You seem to know the specific parts in Dave's system -- either his 240V or his 120V system -- but where, specifically, has he posted his parts list for his current systems?

well theres the auber pid which retails for $47 he likely gets them for closer to $40,
the $22 carlon brand hardware store junction box (enclosure) he again buys in bulk for less.
he either uses an ssvr with a potentiometer or a cheaper SCR unit for his manul boil control - $10-20 depending retail (cheaper in bulk)
2 50cent switches,

ssr (the mager brand ones auber rebrands and sells actually retail elswhere for $11 with a heatsink included.)
a contactor or relay for his element kill switch ($9-10 retail)

20a? 120v plug ($7-10 retail)
duplex 20a 120v outlet ($1.81 retail)
misc wire and cord.. $15

some of the stuff I quoted retail prices rather than guess the discounted bulk buy prices hes likely payig but you can get the point... Bottom line his markup is higher than anyone elses I've compared.

AGAIN honestly theres no magic vodoo in his control panel that makes them cost more to build for what they do...

Its just another version of the same controllers other sellers and DIY people build, use and sell everyday... His are made with more cost effective cheaper components on the outside (besides the pid) but I gave him the benefit of the doubt on the components hes using inside.

Dave even eluded to the fact that he charges what he does because he can, not because he cant charge much less and still make a good profit.
I suppose he has other aspects of his business like the marketing which he does more of than his competitors which hurts his customers more in this case than it helps from what I can see.

 

[pretzelb]

Steven's is 50 bucks cheaper, I see that. But HG's has an extra switch to turn the heat on or off (from what I see). That's nice -- it means I can cut the heat for the whirlpool. Personally, I'd rather have that than an alarm.

Oh, my bad. My eyes aren't what they used to be. Now I see the $50 price difference.

I should have also noted that when Brau Supply broke down the part cost it was for a previous version of the product. The mini 15a controller now sells for $249 and not the previous $220 quoted in the post.

Personally I think it is rude to ask for such a price breakdown but I have to hand it to Steven for posting that back in March. To me that shows he must be a quality person to deal with, which is valuable to some of us buyers. Not to mention this doesn't factor in labor time or what you might consider a reasonable rate per hour for such labor.

I'd love to see a separate post where people try and estimate how long it might take to assemble such a panel. It's one thing if you had all the parts in front of you and you did this all day every day. Seems like quite another when this is just one product you offer and most likely you are also in charge of all other tasks in your "company" like mail room, customer support, ordering, billing, web design, research and development. I kind of wonder if people don't value time spent or undersell how much their time is worth.

 

[pretzelb]

I think @brausupply is a cyclist.

Yea I read that in his "about us" I think. I'm a runner myself but he is clearly winning when it comes to burning calories compared to me!

 

[johnsant]

As with all manufacturing you must include personnel cost. This is not a take home project to do as time allows. My time is always worth more when I can be doing something more fun ie. drinking home brew, at the lake drinking home brew, with family drinking home brew and visiting with friends drinking home brew.

 

[pretzelb]

As with all manufacturing you must include personnel cost. This is not a take home project to do as time allows. My time is always worth more when I can be doing something more fun ie. drinking home brew, at the lake drinking home brew, with family drinking home brew and visiting with friends drinking home brew.

I think this is something many people disregard or just can't comprehend. Maybe if I had all the parts in front of me and an insanely detailed how-to manual (and all the tools needed) then maybe I could complete a panel build project in a reasonable amount of time. That would include step-by-step instructions for even the basics like drilling the holes in the panel or soldering the wires.

But what is more realistic for those of us who don't deal with such things on a daily basis is that each and every step is met with 5-15 minute pauses as we look up or double check something before we actually get some work done. And even THAT assumes we fully understand what goes into the instructions and have all the correct parts (which seems unlikely given how often experts end up ordering new parts mid-project).

For people like me who have never even worked on an electronics project taught to grade school children, the cost of building such things is just too much ... unless you are retired.

 

[johnsant]

I'm retired and can afford to buy what I want I may have to wait some due to other things but I will get what I want, and I would rather spend my time doing other things now that I'm getting older.

 

[pretzelb]

I'm retired and can afford to buy what I want I may have to wait some due to other things but I will get what I want, and I would rather spend my time doing other things now that I'm getting older.

Ha! Funny you should say that. I keep thinking that during my retirement I'd like to try learning about electronics and start with some kits made for grade school kids.