Saison Boulevard Smokestack Series Tank 7 Farmhouse Ale Clone

[Schumed]

Just got back from being away a week and the water bath is at 86 and she's STILL bubbling away. At least every ten seconds. Go 3724 go! Been about 27 days... Not going to even check SG again until I see NO more bubbling.

The recipe calls for dry hopping with cascade but I'm thinking of maybe omitting that and making it a more traditional saison (not usually dry hopped?). Do we think tank 7 is dry hopped?

Tank 7 is dry hopped with Amarillo

The Amarillo is what really makes Tank 7 without it will be something different

 

[bd2xu]

Tank 7 is dry hopped with Amarillo

The Amarillo is what really makes Tank 7 without it will be something different

Oops I got that wrong, I DID get Amarillo for this, per the recipe on this thread. For some reason had Cascade on the brain.

 

[highgravitybacon]

Oops I got that wrong, I DID get Amarillo for this, per the recipe on this thread. For some reason had Cascade on the brain.

I bet that would be good still. I always like the freshness a bit of cascade gives from a dry hop.

 

[bd2xu]

Well it is STILL bubbling, slowed down but still at least some activity in the airlock every 20 seconds or so. I just couldn't take it anymore though and yesterday I checked the SG, it's at about 1.017. Beersmith says my fg should be 1.018 but I'm not too sure how well it compensates for this yeast which is supposed to get wort pretty low. I'm not going to dry hop until I don't see any more bubbling. Also I don't have a free keg right now so no rush. I could bottle this batch but i would want to make absolutely sure its done, afraid of bottle bombs with this guy... Will report back in a few days.

 

[highgravitybacon]

Well it is STILL bubbling, slowed down but still at least some activity in the airlock every 20 seconds or so. I just couldn't take it anymore though and yesterday I checked the SG, it's at about 1.017. Beersmith says my fg should be 1.018 but I'm not too sure how well it compensates for this yeast which is supposed to get wort pretty low. I'm not going to dry hop until I don't see any more bubbling. Also I don't have a free keg right now so no rush. I could bottle this batch but i would want to make absolutely sure its done, afraid of bottle bombs with this guy... Will report back in a few days.

Never trust the attenuation numbers in software. They're derived from the yeast companies who ferment a standard wort in controlled conditions with a variety of yeast to obtain a comparison between strains. You may our may not achieve the same results.

 

[bd2xu]

Yeah, as long as there is a lot activity I have to assume it is still going when it stops bubbling I will then check gravity over a three-day. Then dry hop then keg. I think I have read that 3724 consume a lot and usually get things down very low.

 

[wskee]

Mine got down to 1.012. I had to keep the temps up to finish it off and that was a low as the 3724 would go for me.

 

[bd2xu]

Mine got down to 1.012. I had to keep the temps up to finish it off and that was a low as the 3724 would go for me.

Was the grain bill the same or similar to the one in this thread?

 

[bd2xu]

Looks like I'm at or near the bottom. I transferred to secondary today as I haven't seen any airlock activity in days. It's at 1.011 and beautiful. Taste is AWESOME, very citrusy. Honestly I could force carb it and start drinking in a couple days... but i will wait. Came out about 8.3% which I think is close to tank 7, but does not taste very strong. This one will benefit from a little aging I'm sure so I will leave in the secondary at about 66-68 degrees until I have a keg free up. Then I plan on dry hopping in the keg with 1oz of fresh Amarillo in a sunk muslin bag for 7 days while it chills and carbs. I will then remove the dry hop, let it carb a second week and then start tasting. Very excited about this batch!

 

[bd2xu]

This has been kegged for a month now and I've been drinking it. I like it, but it is very tart. I didn't add Brett but it tastes what I'd think that tastes like (have had the Tank 7 Brett once... it was on tap and awesome). Should this recipe with WY3724 come out with a natural tartness to it? I honestly don't know if it's tasting like it should or if it's an infection. It looks great as you can see...

 

[tagz]

3724 shouldn't taste tart as far as I know. Brett wouldn't taste sour to any large degree. That mostly comes from lacto or pedio. If it was lightly tart, I might say its the yeast but very tart makes me think infection. Any other signs or off flavors?

 

[Schumed]

This has been kegged for a month now and I've been drinking it. I like it, but it is very tart. I didn't add Brett but it tastes what I'd think that tastes like (have had the Tank 7 Brett once... it was on tap and awesome). Should this recipe with WY3724 come out with a natural tartness to it? I honestly don't know if it's tasting like it should or if it's an infection. It looks great as you can see...

What temps did you ferment at?

 

[bd2xu]

What temps did you ferment at?

Started at 68 and ramped all the way to 90-95 over a weeks time. Kept it at or above 90 for several weeks. It took about 6 weeks to finish off at 1.012.

 

[MNDan]

I've gotten a sense of tartness from Amarillo's before, so it's probably a combo of the yeast & hops providing the tartness. BTW - the yeast description says "very tart", so there you go...

http://www.wyeastlab.com/rw_yeaststrain_detail.cfm?ID=60

 

[tagz]

Interesting my experience with it was not tart at all. Well there's you answer.

 

[bd2xu]

I've gotten a sense of tartness from Amarillo's before, so it's probably a combo of the yeast & hops providing the tartness. BTW - the yeast description says "very tart", so there you go...

http://www.wyeastlab.com/rw_yeaststrain_detail.cfm?ID=60

Wow how I'd I miss that?! Thanks. I like it okay, I just don't want to be drinking and infection thinking that it is supposed to be that way

 

[doublebogey10]

Nice Schumed! Thanks for sharing the info. I just brewed my first attempt at this one. This is what I came up with based on everyone's suggestions and I went the original suggestion of more wheat for the first try.

5.5gal batch

11lb Pale belg 2 row
3lb Flaked Corn
1.4 Wheat
(1.5 oz of carafa II for color) as a previous poster suggested

.20 oz magnum @60 I was tempted to bump this up but stuck to 6.9 ibu
.25 oz simcoe @45
3.5 oz amarillo @5min

Mashed @ 152º for 60 mins

I used the 3724 belgian saison yeast since the LBS did not have 3726.

My preboil gravity was 1.054 and I missed my OG by quite a bit for some reason, 1.065. The mill at the LBS was jamming up and I had forgotten to dump my wheat malt in. After it was unjammed and an employee adjusted it, I ran it through and it did not mill it well at all so I ran it back through but who knows if that affected it. They were closing and I wanted to get out of there so I went with it. I am looking forward to buying my own mill soon...

I was planning on a small dry hop of amarillo as well. I will post how this came out.

Is this the preferred recipe for a Tank 7 clone now, with either 3724 or 3726?

 

[eulipion2]

Question about hopping this: the Boulevard website says the current hops are Magnum, Bravo, and Amarillo. I have Magnum as the 60 min addition, and Amarillo the dry-hop, but where would the Bravo go? 45 min for bitterness, or more like 20-15 for flavor?

I've perused the thread and it seems like either 20 or 45 are when most people add the middle addition. What's gotten you closest?

Thanks!

 

[Schumed]

Question about hopping this: the Boulevard website says the current hops are Magnum, Bravo, and Amarillo. I have Magnum as the 60 min addition, and Amarillo the dry-hop, but where would the Bravo go? 45 min for bitterness, or more like 20-15 for flavor?

I've perused the thread and it seems like either 20 or 45 are when most people add the middle addition. What's gotten you closest?

Thanks!

Look at my recipe that is straight from Boulevard....sub For the sim or addition...I believe they have changed to Bravo because its probably cheaper and easily available

 

[eulipion2]

Okay, so based on the proportions given for grains in post #15 (70/20/10), here's what I've come up with:

6 gallons, 75% efficiency

11 lb US Pale Malt (70%)
3 lb flaked corn (19%)
1.75 lb Wheat malt (11%)

.5 oz Magnum, 13.5% AA, 60 min (17 IBU)
.625 oz Bravo, 15.5% AA, 45 min (22 IBU)
1.5 oz Amarillo, 9.5% AA, dry hop (0 IBU)

Wyeast 3711 French Saison

OG: 1.072
FG: 1.010
IBU: 39
SRM: 4.3
ABV: 8.3%

Post #15 is from two years ago, so I'm sure things have changed a bit. Schumed, you have a 5 minute Amarillo addition. Is that what Boulevard does currently, or was that your interpretation? That just seems like an awful lot of green matter.

 

[highgravitybacon]

Okay, so based on the proportions given for grains in post #15 (70/20/10), here's what I've come up with:

6 gallons, 75% efficiency

11 lb US Pale Malt (70%)
3 lb flaked corn (19%)
1.75 lb Wheat malt (11%)

.5 oz Magnum, 13.5% AA, 60 min (17 IBU)
.625 oz Bravo, 15.5% AA, 45 min (22 IBU)
1.5 oz Amarillo, 9.5% AA, dry hop (0 IBU)

Wyeast 3711 French Saison

OG: 1.072
FG: 1.010
IBU: 39
SRM: 4.3
ABV: 8.3%

Post #15 is from two years ago, so I'm sure things have changed a bit. Schumed, you have a 5 minute Amarillo addition. Is that what Boulevard does currently, or was that your interpretation? That just seems like an awful lot of green matter.

You can email boulevard directly to get the recipe if you are curious. I doubt it's changed dramatically with possible exception of bittering addition.

 

[geoffm33]

I am going to attempt this next weekend, my LHBS is out of Amarillo and Simcoe so I subbed Falconer's for both. Is there a better hop sub to use that is commonly available?

Here is the recipe:

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal   
Estimated OG: 1.073 SG
Estimated Color: 6.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 38.0 IBUs
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt		Name                                  Type	#	%/IBU         
11 lbs		Pale Malt (2 Row) US 		       	Grain	1	71.8 %        
3 lbs 8.0 oz	Corn, Flaked				Grain	2	22.8 %        
8.0 oz		White Wheat Malt	               Grain	3	3.3 %         
5.3 oz		Caramunich Malt		               Grain	4	2.2 %         
0.20 oz		Magnum - Boil 60.0 min			Hop	5	8.4 IBUs      
0.21 oz		Falconer's Flight - Boil 45.0 m 	Hop	6	5.7 IBUs      
4.00 oz		Falconer's Flight - Boil 5.0 m		Hop	7	23.8 IBUs     
1.0 pkg		Belgian Saison (Wyeast Labs #3724)	Yeast	8	-             
0.25 oz		Falconer's Flight - Dry Hop 7 days 	Hop	9	0.0 IBUs      


Mash Schedule: GM: BIAB, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 15 lbs 5.3 oz
----------------------------
Name              Description                             Step Temp	Step Time     
Saccharification  Add 30.89 qt of water at 160.0 F        152.0 F	60 min        

Sparge: Remove grains, and prepare to boil wort

------

Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1) I haven't done a starter before, is it mandatory? If I don't, should I pitch two yeast packs instead?

2) I don't have a way to control the temp on the warmer side, should I start my fermentation at my typical 68 (swamp cooler) then after a few days leave it at room temp (72 ambient)?

3) How many carbonation volumes for this clone?

 

[bd2xu]

Not sure about the hops but I'd say anything you like. I did this recipe to a T and it was good but not a super close clone. On the yeast, very important. I like to use yeastcalc.com to figure out how much to use. Great tool.

 

[bd2xu]

Oh and mash low. I mashed too high, about 156. It was a little too sweet a saison should really be dry.

 

[scottsaxman]

Mash low - we shot for 151F
Ferment hot - like 85-90F with 3724 yeast

Our version isn't nearly as funky as the real thing, but it is dry and refreshing. The BJCP description for saison says effervescent, if I recall, so carb up!

 

[LakesideBrewing]

Pre-gelatinized Corn Flakes

That is the same as flaked corn, right?

Thanks!
-Mike

 

[geoffm33]

Based on my recipe above (but used 2x packets of Danstar Belle Saison instead) after one week it went from 1.073 to 1.004. Finishing very low.

Tasted ok, never tried this recipe (or a Saison) before so nothing to compare to. Sensed a hot alcohol taste, not too noticeable though.

Fermented at about 68 then up to 75 after a few days.

Just dry hopped it and will check on it in another week.

 

[savannahbrew]

Has anyone tried the Danstar Belle Saison yeast on this?

Rick

I used that yeast and it turned out really well if you were still wondering. I didnt use a starter I just rehydrated for half of an hour like it said on the package and pitched. It ended up taking the beer down to 1.010

 

[geoffm33]

I used that yeast and it turned out really well if you were still wondering. I didnt use a starter I just rehydrated for half of an hour like it said on the package and pitched. It ended up taking the beer down to 1.010

I wound up pitching 2 packets of Belle Saison. Went from 1.073 to 1.004 after 7 days. I am checking again tonight and may bottle tomorrow/wednesday.

Glad to hear it turned out well, can't wait to try it!

 

[geoffm33]

I wound up pitching 2 packets of Belle Saison. Went from 1.073 to 1.004 after 7 days. I am checking again tonight and may bottle tomorrow/wednesday.

Glad to hear it turned out well, can't wait to try it!

So I just tried this out, it's been in the bottle for about 3 weeks. It starts off great...but finishes with a boozey taste. It had really high attenuation (likely due to the two packets, maybe should have just done one) and has a dry taste but the estimated 8.3% wound up at ~10%. And you can taste the alcohol.

I had the fermenter in a water bath with frozen water bottles keeping the temp around 68 for the first 3 or so days. Then I just let it ride after that, getting up to about 75° tops (temp probe taped to side of fermenter).

Not undrinkable, but not what I was shooting for.