Bottling yeast for high ABV?

[anotherbeerplease]

I brew a high abv stout for the holidays every year; this year it's around 14%.

It has been aging in the carboy for maybe 8 months, so the only way to bottle condition will be to add yeast. I am new to bottle conditioning - normally I keg.

I am concerned that whatever yeast I add will just die in the bottle due to the high abv, and produce off flavors. Has anyone delt with this, any suggestions? What yeast should I use? Thanks very much!

 

[hottpeper13]

I make similar brews that sit in a barrel for 8-12 mos. I always use 3 grams of CBC dry yeast in 5 gal. I just mix it into the the maple syrup priming liquid. Highly recommend maple syrup.just figure how much sugar you need then multiply by 1.25.

 

[hotbeer]

They don't say how much is too much alcohol for them, but Fermentis has F-2 yeast they recommend for bottling beers over 10% ABV.

https://fermentis.com/en/product/safale-f-2/
BSG is the only place I've found it advertised in the states and I think they are geared more for the commercial craft brewers.

 

[rburrelli]

A wine yeast is probably your best choice for high alcohol. EC-1118 or CBC-1.

 

[anotherbeerplease]

Beautiful thanks guys. I like the maple syrup idea as well - might go well as it is already aged on oak with vanilla beans.

 

[Climb]

San Diego Supper Yeast, WLP090, speced up to 15% ABV. It is neutral and should not affect flavor or champagne yeast.

 

[pocketmon]

I make similar brews that sit in a barrel for 8-12 mos. I always use 3 grams of CBC dry yeast in 5 gal. I just mix it into the the maple syrup priming liquid. Highly recommend maple syrup.just figure how much sugar you need then multiply by 1.25.

Do you mix dry yeast directly with the syrup?
I am going to do the same thing but worry about high osmotic pressure of the syrup will kill the yeast before it gets into the beer.

 

[hottpeper13]

It'e just to liquefy the grains of yeast .I stir into the room temp priming liquid and pour into bucket and rack all within 5 min. No pressure.

 

[Miraculix]

Adding the yeast to the priming liquid is damaging the yeast a lot due to high osmotic pressure. Either add the yeast to the beer or each bottle separately but never directly to the priming solution.

 

[odie]

I would suspect you rack about a gallon into the bottling bucket, add the maple syrup, stir to dissolve completely, add the yeast, rack the remainder while stirring to mix the yeast, bottle, walk away for a good long time.

 

[hottpeper13]

Just had a 2018 RIS last night during the game done my way and it poured with a head. So if you haven't tried it then you can't impericly state anything correctly. Oh, it spent a year in a 25 gal whisky barrel.

 

[pocketmon]

The osmotic pressure might kill some, but some might survive. Well, even some of the fermenting yeast might survive, and the bottling yeast is not necessary. It's hard to know what exactly happened.

Let me share you a story about my 11% Belgian quad with WLP530.
I cold crashed it for about 4 days before bottling and bottled direct from the fermenter as usual.
Most of the time, I leave as little as possible head space to avoid oxygen.
That was what I did, but somehow two bottles had little head space.
I tried some 3 months later, but all were flat and sweet, except the two bottles with head space, which were carbonated.
After another 3 months, all bottles I opened were still flat and sweet.
Having no CBC-1 on hand, I add rehydrated US-05 and recapped.
It didn't work. It's still flat and sweeter after another 3+ months.
I opened the bottles, added rehydrated US-05, and poured some beer out to make some air into the bottle.
Finally, I got carbonated but oxidized beer.

I had guessed if I had left headspace for all bottle or racked the beer into bottling bucket, the yeast might have a chance to get some oxygen to build their weak membrane. Then, no additional yeast would've been needed. Now, I am planning next quad and thinking about how to do for this batch.

 

[Miraculix]

The osmotic pressure might kill some, but some might survive. Well, even some of the fermenting yeast might survive, and the bottling yeast is not necessary. It's hard to know what exactly happened.

Let me share you a story about my 11% Belgian quad with WLP530.
I cold crashed it for about 4 days before bottling and bottled direct from the fermenter as usual.
Most of the time, I leave as little as possible head space to avoid oxygen.
That was what I did, but somehow two bottles had little head space.
I tried some 3 months later, but all were flat and sweet, except the two bottles with head space, which were carbonated.
After another 3 months, all bottles I opened were still flat and sweet.
Having no CBC-1 on hand, I add rehydrated US-05 and recapped.
It didn't work. It's still flat and sweeter after another 3+ months.
I opened the bottles, added rehydrated US-05, and poured some beer out to make some air into the bottle.
Finally, I got carbonated but oxidized beer.

I had guessed if I left headspace for all bottle or racked the beer into bottling bucket, the yeast might have a chance to get some oxygen to build their weak membrane. Then, no additional yeast were needed. Now, I am planning next quad and thinking about how to do for this batch.

That's because us05 is not a good yeast for this. Cbc1 would have worked without the need of an extra oxygen kick. If you didn't weaken it by throwing it into the priming solution first, of course.

 

[hotbeer]

. If you didn't weaken it by throwing it into the priming solution first, of course.

Are you talking about throwing the yeast in dry, or re-hydrated. I'm just not certain how osmotic pressure would be an issue on dry yeast unless it's allowed to rehydrate itself in that priming solution.

Or are you talking about adding it to the syrup for the priming solution?

Usually I'm adding the beer to the priming solution as soon as it's cooled enough for the beer and that would also be the time I'd add the dry yeast.

So will a few moments really rip enough cell walls apart to be an issue?

 

[Miraculix]

Are you talking about throwing the yeast in dry, or re-hydrated. I'm just not certain how osmotic pressure would be an issue on dry yeast unless it's allowed to rehydrate itself in that priming solution.

Or are you talking about adding it to the syrup for the priming solution?

Usually I'm adding the beer to the priming solution as soon as it's cooled enough for the beer and that would also be the time I'd add the dry yeast.

So will a few moments really rip enough cell walls apart to be an issue?

Sugar itself kills yeast, it is about the concentration. If that is too high, the yeast present gets damaged or killed. Hve you ever sanitized your priming sugar? Me neither, because nothing can survive on it, that is basically the most extreme. But priming solutions are still extremely high in sugar so these will surely damage the yeast. IT is one of the stress factors, that is also why we stagger sugar additions when we want to max out the abv.

Just do not add it to the priming solution directly, add it to the beer, where is the problem?

 

[hotbeer]

Just do not add it to the priming solution directly, add it to the beer, where is the problem?

I don't see where the short time that might pass between putting the yeast in the priming solution first and then adding the beer will make much difference to most of the yeast surviving.

Even if I put the dry yeast in the most heavy syrup possible it's not like it's all going to immediately die. I'd think the majority of it will still be dry on the inside and dormant or what ever state they are in by the time I start mixing in the beer.

However if this is only about "best" practices then I might can agree with you on that.

 

[Miraculix]

I don't see where the short time that might pass between putting the yeast in the priming solution first and then adding the beer will make much difference to most of the yeast surviving.

Even if I put the dry yeast in the most heavy syrup possible it's not like it's all going to immediately die. I'd think the majority of it will still be dry on the inside and dormant or what ever state they are in by the time I start mixing in the beer.

However if this is only about "best" practices then I might can agree with you on that.

It's just unnecessary stress. Of course not every single cell will die but some will and some will be damaged and perform less than desirable. So why not wait 2 minutes longer till the first beer is in the bucket as well?

 

[odie]

Sugar itself kills yeast, it is about the concentration. If that is too high, the yeast present gets damaged or killed. Hve you ever sanitized your priming sugar? Me neither, because nothing can survive on it, that is basically the most extreme. But priming solutions are still extremely high in sugar so these will surely damage the yeast. IT is one of the stress factors, that is also why we stagger sugar additions when we want to max out the abv.

Interesting...I add bulk sugars to my kegs after primary fermentation is done. I've added 2# maple syrup directly into a keg of RIS and sealed it up for 6-12 months. Did not have any issues with the yeast cleaning that up. But I do rock and shake the keg a bit to distribute the syrup.

Same thing with honey and candi syrup too. straight into the keg for a "secondary" fermentation.

 

[Miraculix]

Interesting...I add bulk sugars to my kegs after primary fermentation is done. I've added 2# maple syrup directly into a keg of RIS and sealed it up for 6-12 months. Did not have any issues with the yeast cleaning that up. But I do rock and shake the keg a bit to distribute the syrup.

Same thing with honey and candi syrup too. straight into the keg for a "secondary" fermentation.

You misunderstood me. Adding the sugar to the beer dilutes the sugar so that's not a problem. The potential problem is when you add the yeast directly to the sugar solution.

 

[tennesseean_87]

I always sprinkled some wine yeast into each bottle before capping.