Bottling off flavor after 4 weeks

[apauled]

Disclaimer; I'm a new brewer and this is my first batch.

Details; I brewed a NB Irish Red extract with grains kit on 11/20/2013 SG ~1044, Used gallon jugs of store bought spring water, pre-boil stove top volume ~2.5 gals. Steeped grains until 170 degs (~40 mins) Extract and hop additions added per instructions. Chilled with immersion wort chiller. Topped with spring water. Pitched Nottingham @ ~75 degs directly on wort (new and kit told me to). Carboy reached ~70 degs peak (fermomenter) during active fermentation. Used blowoff tube (because I'm new and didn't know what to expect) for ~first week then switched to air lock. Racked to secondary (because I'm new and instructions told me to) 12/05/2013, FG ~1010.

Bottled 12/18/2013.

Bottling day I racked as much as possible into the bottling bucket by tilting carboy and leaving ~1 quart or less in carboy. Carbed using 3.80 oz (.10 more than the NB priming sugar calculator suggested for style.) Bottle conditioned @ ~ 70 degs.

I used unfiltered chlorinated tap water to sanitize all equipment along the way. Did not leave much but the film in bottles or any equipment. Bottles were cleaned and sanitized by submersion and then dripped on sanitized dishwasher rack until all 50 bottles were done.

Beer is well carbed and much more so than a commercial example (Killian's).

Issue;

@ ~3 weeks I sampled a bottle, fully carbed. Problem I get an off smell in the head of the beer and when burping. I've heard people talk about plastic, band aid, etc but the it smells to me like body filler AKA bondo in a way. I get this off the pour and it's most pronounced when burping. The beer tastes slightly thin (could be the extract) but overall does not have a bad flavor, just the smell coming off the carbonation has it and the burping.

@~4 weeks sampled again. Same off smell on the pour and when burping, it didn't get worse but I can't say it's much better. Carbonation is the same. It seemed like the longer the beer sat in the glass the less the flavor was and the more malt was left in the mouth.

This off flavor was not present when sampling the hydrometer readings and has shown up after bottling. Has anyone experienced an off flavor like this off an extract batch @ 3-4 weeks plus of bottle conditioning?

I've read all the threads here about waiting it out and waiting 6 weeks or longer before making any judgement calls. Never dump a batch, etc. I also understand that many people keg beers like this and drink them young as soon as they are carbed. Just wondering if someone with experience can chime in on the off flavor described and tell me if it's a lack of new brewer patience or something listed in my process. My plan is to crack 1 a week to see how and if the flavor changes. The beer doesn't taste terrible but it's off enough that I'd rather not drink it if given the choice. <End of Newbie Paranoia>

 

[ColoHox]

Firstly, I am confused by your statement "I used unfiltered chlorinated tap water to sanitize all equipment." Does that mean you just used water (tap), added chlorine (bleach) to water, or used chlorinated water to mix your sanitizer?

Once that is settled, we can help a bit more. Most brewers make every effort to remove chlorine compounds from anything that touches their beer or equipment.

The flavor you are describing (band-aidy, medicinal) could be due to chlorophenols. The problem with using chlorinated water, or bleach during sanitation, is the combination of phenols (from the yeast) and the chlorine resulting in chlorophenols. These compounds have very low taste thresholds.

There is an "extract funk," that some people have described tasting when using extract as the primary fermentable. I always thought this flavor was more apple-y than phenolic but it may depend on the individual and the beer. But, many people make award winning extract beers, so this flavor is a little weird.

Your current batch likely won't change much. The off-flavor may become less apparent as things blend together, but only time will tell. My suggestion for your next batch would be to not use anything containing chlorine. Use a sanitizer like starsan or iodophor and remove the chlorine or chloramines from your brewing and cleaning water (boiling or camped tab, respectively).

 

[PRE66_6TART]

It sounds like an issue I was having. I haven't used Nottingham but mostly use other English yeasts. The hydrometer samples would taste good, but after they carbonated in the bottles there would be a smell/flavor that wasn't horribly unpleasant but definitely not desired, and it was most noticeable when I burped. The more carbonated the beer, the more noticeable the taste. I think the carbonation itself was not causing the problem, but was making off flavors and esters from the English yeast more noticeable. English yeast can make unwanted flavors at warmer temperatures and Nottingham is especially notorious for needing to be kept cool. Most people that I've seen talk about it say not to let it get above 68, so maybe that's where your problem came from.

By the way, I never figured out for sure what the problem was because I improved a bunch of my practices at once, instead of changing one variable at a time. So this is just a guess. Either way controlling your ferm temps better can't hurt.

 

[apauled]

Firstly, I am confused by your statement "I used unfiltered chlorinated tap water to sanitize all equipment." Does that mean you just used water (tap), added chlorine (bleach) to water, or used chlorinated water to mix your sanitizer?

Just a complicated way of saying I used my tap water out of the sink with no filter. It's chlorinated and you can smell it. I mentioned this because I had been reading threads discussing chlorine and off flavors. I was wondering if such a low amount when rinsing equipment really has brought on off flavors in practice. I can see using it for top up water or in the kettle being an issue. How common is it for people to use campden tablets for their sanitizing water? I'm guessing I should at least be filtering it with carbon which I plan to do next time.

As far as the taste. I'm not sure what I'm picking up. I describe it as body putty/auto filler because that's what it reminds me of. On my next bottle I need to sniff a few band aids and kiddie pools first! It wasn't there before bottling and I seem to get it most when smelling the beer off a pour and when burping. It seemed like it lessened when two things happened, 1. I let the beer sit longer in the glass and 2. the beer warmed up a bit. The ~ @ 4 week sample was chilled for 24 hours prior to opening.

 

[apauled]

@PRE66_6TART

I was wondering if it had something to do with the Nottingham and I tried to keep the temp @ or below 70. This is according to the fermometer stuck on the carboy. The beer fermented out to ~1011-1010 and smelled and tasted great every step of the way. I was surprised at the level of carbonation when using 2.2 CO2 vol for the style. This is what it looks like after sitting in the glass for about 5 minutes. It's hard to see but there are bubbles coming up from the bottom and it's clearer than it looks.

 

[apauled]

Batch dumped tonight. Beer poured as if I carbed it with 10 oz of sugar. It was my first batch and a failure. A simple extract with steeping grains that tasted like auto body putty and gave me a headache and stomach issues after drinking. The only thing this beer was gaining over time was more carbonation from whatever my newbie brewing deficient self introduced to it. Underneath it was an Irish red someplace. Just horrible. Whoever says beer is pretty hard to screw up is full of it. This was a new kit and everything was cleaned and sanitized well. First batch. Whoever says a first batch is hard to screw up...not really. Beer is fragile. Sure I can me beer and screw up here and there along the way. But GOOD beer must be made with perfection. It looks like it will take a few dozen batches to get this down. No more 5 gallon batches for a while.

 

[abaker34]

I have had this issue and I think I have found my problem. I found after 3 weeks a one off bottle I did in a used water bottle and it tasted great, the other bottles (PET and glass) had off flavours and the only difference was that I used VWP cleaner steriliser which must have left a residual film inside the bottle that did not fully come out after rinsing.

I am now just going to use boiling water and PAA to clean and bottle up, maybe you used a similar cleaner that leaves residue? It makes perfect sense as everything tasted so good after 2 weeks and then suddenly turns and has to be chucked.

I hope this helps!

 

[IslandLizard]

I have had this issue and I think I have found my problem. I found after 3 weeks a one off bottle I did in a used water bottle and it tasted great, the other bottles (PET and glass) had off flavours and the only difference was that I used VWP cleaner steriliser which must have left a residual film inside the bottle that did not fully come out after rinsing.

I am now just going to use boiling water and PAA to clean and bottle up, maybe you used a similar cleaner that leaves residue? It makes perfect sense as everything tasted so good after 2 weeks and then suddenly turns and has to be chucked.

I hope this helps!

I see you're in the UK, and unfortunately you don't have access to StarSan or one of the iodized sanitizers we take for granted in the US. I'm not familiar with the products you mention.

Keep in mind there's a difference between cleansers (detergents) and sanitizers. Cleansers need to be rinsed off thoroughly. IMO the best sanitizers are non-rinse and leave no detectable off-flavors, such as Starsan.

Regarding the OP, he's in the US, it's still unclear to me what sanitizer he used. From the gushing bottles I suspect his beer was infected, most likely due to incorrect sanitizing of his bottles. All kinds of off-flavors can be associated with that. He hasn't posted anything since January...

 

[abaker34]

I see you're in the UK, and unfortunately you don't have access to StarSan or one of the iodized sanitizers we take for granted in the US. I'm not familiar with the products you mention.

Keep in mind there's a difference between cleansers (detergents) and sanitizers. Cleansers need to be rinsed off thoroughly. IMO the best sanitizers are non-rinse and leave no detectable off-flavors, such as Starsan.

Regarding the OP, he's in the US, it's still unclear to me what sanitizer he used. From the gushing bottles I suspect his beer was infected, most likely due to incorrect sanitizing of his bottles. All kinds of off-flavors can be associated with that. He hasn't posted anything since January...

Thanks Lizard

The VWB is a dual cleaner and sterilizer, not a no rinse however but I use a low concentration of Videne or PPA as my no rinse. I have found I have had gushing bottles also. Star san is gettable but difficult to get, it sells out as quick as it becomes available and it is VERY expensive.

Sometimes I question how sanitised a bottle needs to be - put it this way I used a empty spring water bottle just rinsed with tap water, no steriliser and it tasted absolutely superb, not good practice I know but I ran out of brew bottles. All the beer in brew bottles now need chucking, the only variable was that I did not clean/sterilise the water bottle, so I am convinced my own personal off flavours will be fixed.

 

[IslandLizard]

Thanks Lizard

The VWB is a dual cleaner and sterilizer, not a no rinse however but I use a low concentration of Videne or PPA as my no rinse. I have found I have had gushing bottles also. Star san is gettable but difficult to get, it sells out as quick as it becomes available and it is VERY expensive.

Sometimes I question how sanitised a bottle needs to be - put it this way I used a empty spring water bottle just rinsed with tap water, no steriliser and it tasted absolutely superb, not good practice I know but I ran out of brew bottles. All the beer in brew bottles now need chucking, the only variable was that I did not clean/sterilise the water bottle, so I am convinced my own personal off flavours will be fixed.

Yeah, I bet Starsan is expensive there. But a 16 or 32oz bottle will last a long long time. Many people here just fill spray bottles with the working solution, and never make buckets full to submerge things.

I think cleaning the bottles with hot water, washing soda (not baking soda) and a bottle brush should get them clean. Rinse well with hot water and then sanitize with whatever you use should do the trick. Beware of your bottling bucket's spigot. Some are bug traps, 2 rotating barrels that harbor bacteria. The 2 barrels come apart if first soaked in really hot water and a good push.

Once you had your own beer in them a good rinse after pouring, allowed to air dry and stored away in a clean box, keeps them ready for sanitizing next bottle time.