Bottling off a nitro keg tap, does it work?

[cruelkix]

So I keg, pretty much exclusively. One of the guys I work with really likes stouts (as do I). I have a great imperial stout on nitro right now that I would love to bring in for him. I have some bottles, kolsch style with the reusable orange flippy top to it. If I fill one of these off my nitro tap, what are the odds of it keeping its "nitronation"? Any pointers?

I searched, but had no luck......

TIA,
Craig

 

[bassmosphere]

If I fill one of these off my nitro tap, what are the odds of it keeping its "nitronation"?

Probably none. The draught bottles or cans contain a nitrogen widget that cause nitrogen gas to be released into the beer once the beer has been opened. See here.

How about something like the Guinness surger?

 

[bassmosphere]

If you try this let us know. Maybe you just need to get the right co2/nitro mix then agitate.

I did have a couple of Guinnesses prepared with the surger and I couldn't tell the difference between them and actual draft Guinness.

 

[RDWHAHB]

It will not work. You will get mostly flat beer in the flip-top.

 

[cruelkix]

Yeah thats kinda what im guessing. I gave it a run anyway. I'll let you know what the two guys im dishing it out to think. I told them to pour it hard into their glasses over a spoon or something to try and release what little nitro is left. We'll see how it goes.

The nice part about my nitro tap is that it has an adjustable flow rate, so I was able to keep most of the nitro in suspension while I was pouring it..... I think.

Thanks for the responses!

 

[RDWHAHB]

Nitro does not appreciably dissolve at the pressure/temp in a keg. It is just there to "push" the beer through the restrictor plate, which knocks the C02 out of solution into a creamy head. If you were able to slow it down and not get the creamy head, it is likely similar to pouring off of a regular CO2 tap. Which is likely a good thing for you here. Hope their tasty for them!

 

[cruelkix]

Probably none. The draught bottles or cans contain a nitrogen widget that cause nitrogen gas to be released into the beer once the beer has been opened. See here.

How about something like the Guinness surger?

Thats a solid article bassmosphere, and thanks for the video. It seems, that after reading that article, that the nitro is indeed in solution (contrary to what RDWHAHB is saying, so we have a discussion point there i think ......)it just needs a "catalyst" to start a reaction to get it to foam, much like what the surger is doing. So if they can cause some turbulance in their pour they should be in a good positon to see a little creaminess I hope. I'll bottle one myslef when I get home today and then drink it tomorrow, maybe shoot a video of the pour.

 

[RDWHAHB]

I would contend Mr Wizard doesn't understand these things terrible well.

 

[cruelkix]

I would contend Mr Wizard doesn't understand these things terrible well.

Seems like a very possible contention

 

[Jester369]

I agree that Mr Wizard might be wrong on that one. Pretty sure nitrogen doesn't dissolve into the beer to any extent, like RDWHAHB pointed out.

 

[bassmosphere]

I agree that Mr Wizard might be wrong on that one. Pretty sure nitrogen doesn't dissolve into the beer to any extent, like RDWHAHB pointed out.

Did you guys read the article? It said it was stored in a wiglet and released when the can was opened.

I am the one that mentioned the dissolved part. I was wondering how the ultrasonic vibration works. This is a different can of beer. It doesn't have a widget in it AFIAK.

Anyone have any info on this?

 

[RDWHAHB]

When nitrogen breaks out of solution, millions of tiny bubbles form and these bubbles look, act and feel much different than carbon dioxide bubbles

I did happen to read the article. Nitrogen in solution = dissolved ntrogen. Since we are taking a poll, did you read it?

In my opinion, Wizard is close to the right idea, but wrong. The small bubbles are CO2. They are just formed diffrently then big nucleation bubbles.

 

[Jester369]

Did you guys read the article? It said it was stored in a wiglet and released when the can was opened.

I am the one that mentioned the dissolved part. I was wondering how the ultrasonic vibration works. This is a different can of beer. It doesn't have a widget in it AFIAK.

Anyone have any info on this?

Just went back to make sure I didn't miss something, but RDWHAHB was the one who mentioned dissolving:

Nitro does not appreciably dissolve at the pressure/temp in a keg

I didn't see you state it in any of your posts

Since you asked, yes I did read the article. And I still say Mr. Wizard is not correct - nitrogen does not dissolve to any extent in beer.

 

[downpantera]

I realize this is a dead post, but I thought it would be good to share:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/gases-solubility-water-d_1148.html

It shows at atmospheric pressure Nitrogen is soluble but barely. 0.03 g N2 per kg water at near freezing temps. This is 100x less than CO2. I think this is why you have an 80/20 or 70/30 ratio of N2:CO2 and pressurize at 30 - 40 psi. 14.7 psi is one atmosphere so 40 is 2.7 atms. You can use Henry's Law [N2] = kH * p(N2) to determine the solubility of Nitrogen in beer at a given psi and temperature. At 40°C it is roughly 2.27 g N2 in 5 gallons. It is never 0 though.

 

[cruelkix]

I realize this is a dead post, but I thought it would be good to share:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/gases-solubility-water-d_1148.html

It shows at atmospheric pressure Nitrogen is soluble but barely. 0.03 g N2 per kg water at near freezing temps. This is 100x less than CO2. I think this is why you have an 80/20 or 70/30 ratio of N2:CO2 and pressurize at 30 - 40 psi. 14.7 psi is one atmosphere so 40 is 2.7 atms. You can use Henry's Law [N2] = kH * p(N2) to determine the solubility of Nitrogen in beer at a given psi and temperature. At 40°C it is roughly 2.27 g N2 in 5 gallons. It is never 0 though.

Good info. Thanks. So let me see if I have this straight then.

I run my Nitro tap at 30 psi. That webpage you gave states "Note that for gases in combination with other gases - like oxygen in air - the partial pressure of the gas must be used. Ex. in air with normal composition oxygen counts for aprox. 20% of the total pressure."

I run a 80/20 N2/CO2 tank. Using the above statement, that is like running CO2 at 30 * . 2 or 6 psi as far as solubility is concerned?

This makes sense as the beers definitely taste far less carbonated. I guess the real reason nitro beers act the way they do is due to the beer being forced through the diffuser plate and knocking the CO2 out of suspension.

On a seperate note I never updated this thread. Bottling off the Nitro tap didn't work very well. I guess the trick would be to barely disturb the CO2 to keep it in suspension, and then have something to kick it all out of suspension like the diffuser plate / guinness sugarer / guinness widget does?

 

[downpantera]

Sounds about right, cruelkix.

 

[Groo]

Anyone else try this recently?

I was thinking of bottling to a 2 liter bottle then carbing at an appropriate level with a carb cap and CO2.

Any feedback on this?