Bottling in the summer

[rainingbullets]

It's freakin hot out here in Chico, CA (102 F outside right now)

The apartment stays at a (relatively) constant 80 F. (save money on that AC!)

I brewed up a robust porter the other day and is now fermenting along nicely in my new "fermentation chamber" (FC) that I just built, at a constant 65 F.

I plan to keep it there for another two or three weeks, transfer to bottles and let it sit for another two or three weeks.

Usually, I bottle at room temperature, but...

...is 80 F too high of a temp for conditioning?

Beersmith says to use 4.47 oz of corn sugar for this type of beer at 80 F temps. Does that sound correct? I have it set for 2.4 volumes of carbonation. I went along with the amount of corn sugar suggested by beersmith for a Rye PA I did awhile back. Turned out a little flat. I normally just use about 3/4 cup (6 oz) corn sugar for all my brews.

I guess my bottom line is...whats the ideal conditioning temp for a robust porter? I've been having trouble with "off-flavors" in the past, and I'm REALLY trying to avoid any funky aftertastes in this beer (hence, building the FC).

Thanks in advance for all the help! :fro:

 

[marubozo]

Most people recommend room temp, which tends to be closer to 70 for conditioning, but if 80 is what you have, it's what have. Generally speaking, the warmer the conditioning temp, the faster it will carb up. It's still a good idea to keep it as cool as you can in the warm house, so just find the darkest/coolest corner that keeps a relatively steady temp and you should be fine.

The amount of corn sugar you use to bottle is really dependent on the style, and a porter tends to have a little less carbonation than a lot of other styles, so the fact that it's recommending a little less sugar than you're used to is normal.

The off-flavors really occur during the active fermentation stage since that's where the yeast give off byproducts. The warmer the fermentation, the more flavors they give off. So if you keep that under control you'll go a long way in keeping the off-flavors down. That being said, when you carb naturally the yeast are actually doing another small fermentation, so the higher the temps, the more off-flavors. But given the amount of fermentation that's going on is so small that's usually not much of a concern.

 

[rainingbullets]

Most people recommend room temp, which tends to be closer to 70 for conditioning, but if 80 is what you have, it's what have. Generally speaking, the warmer the conditioning temp, the faster it will carb up. It's still a good idea to keep it as cool as you can in the warm house, so just find the darkest/coolest corner that keeps a relatively steady temp and you should be fine.

The amount of corn sugar you use to bottle is really dependent on the style, and a porter tends to have a little less carbonation than a lot of other styles, so the fact that it's recommending a little less sugar than you're used to is normal.

The off-flavors really occur during the active fermentation stage since that's where the yeast give off byproducts. The warmer the fermentation, the more flavors they give off. So if you keep that under control you'll go a long way in keeping the off-flavors down. That being said, when you carb naturally the yeast are actually doing another small fermentation, so the higher the temps, the more off-flavors. But given the amount of fermentation that's going on is so small that's usually not much of a concern.

Ya, before I built this FC, the primary fermentation stage was done just in my closet. When ambient was about 74 F, the carboy would reach almost 80! Those yeasties sure were working hard, giving off all that heat. Consequently, I was getting that "twangy homebrew taste".

Soo glad I finally have this FC. Just wish it was bigger so I could put the bottles in there at the same time with the carboy.

I can try an experiment:

Fit some bottles in the FC while the carboy is in there (at 65 F). Then put the rest of the bottles in the closet at 80 F.

Trouble is, I would have to alter the amount of corn sugar in the FC bottles.


...it may come down to me altering the thermostat to something lower than 80F, much to the dismay of my electricity bill. It's so hot in here...

Homebrewing is expensive!

 

[944play]

Trouble is, I would have to alter the amount of corn sugar in the FC bottles.

No, the temp you plug into your priming calculator is the temp at bottling (or, more pedantically, the highest temp since the end of fermentation that the beer has reached). Beer temp at bottling reflects how much residual CO2 from fermentation is still dissolved in the beer.

 

[Got Trub?]

As mentioned the off flavours are mostly related to fermentation temperature. I would just carb at 80 and condition them at that temperature as well in the darkest, most temperature stable space you have.

As an ex-Aggie I can recall those hot summer days (and nights) in the valley and the challenges I and my college roommates had brewing beer in the summer.

GT

 

[rainingbullets]

No, the temp you plug into your priming calculator is the temp at bottling (or, more pedantically, the highest temp since the end of fermentation that the beer has reached). Beer temp at bottling reflects how much residual CO2 from fermentation is still dissolved in the beer.

So...does this mean I would be using 65 F (maybe a little higher) for the carbonation calc? As I said before, the bottles will be sitting closer to 80 F for the 2-3 weeks, but the beer will be around 65-70 F when it comes out of the carboy...

Side question: Why is more corn sugar needed for warmer bottling temps, and less for cooler?

 

[944play]

As the beer warms up, the residual CO2 comes out of solution. You're then putting it into bottles starting with less carbonation than it would have if it was kept cool, so you add more sugar to compensate.

 

[JuanMoore]

So...does this mean I would be using 65 F (maybe a little higher) for the carbonation calc? As I said before, the bottles will be sitting closer to 80 F for the 2-3 weeks, but the beer will be around 65-70 F when it comes out of the carboy...

Side question: Why is more corn sugar needed for warmer bottling temps, and less for cooler?

The colder a liquid is the more CO2 it can hold. If you warm the beer up, the residual CO2 that was produced during fermentation will come out of solution, and you'll need more priming sugar. If the beer is kept cold, it retains more residual CO2, so it needs less additional carbonation. Since your temps are now able to be kept constant, plug in the temp the beer will be as it goes into the bottles and gets capped, which sounds like will be ~70F. If for some reason the beer got warmed up between when it was producing CO2 and when you bottle, you'd use the highest temperature it reached.

 

[rainingbullets]

The colder a liquid is the more CO2 it can hold. If you warm the beer up, the residual CO2 that was produced during fermentation will come out of solution, and you'll need more priming sugar. If the beer is kept cold, it retains more residual CO2, so it needs less additional carbonation. Since your temps are now able to be kept constant, plug in the temp the beer will be as it goes into the bottles and gets capped, which sounds like will be ~70F. If for some reason the beer got warmed up between when it was producing CO2 and when you bottle, you'd use the highest temperature it reached.

Interesting. I guess its a little counter-intuitive that yeast will need more corn sugar to produce CO2. I guess my train of thought is the yeast will be more active at warmer temperatures.

Side note: it seems my porter is fermenting closer to 67-68 F in the FC, rather than the programed 65 F. I guess my thermostat is a little off...

...If I get any off-flavors from this, I will be pissed...

 

[Got Trub?]

Interesting. I guess its a little counter-intuitive that yeast will need more corn sugar to produce CO2. I guess my train of thought is the yeast will be more active at warmer temperatures.

Side note: it seems my porter is fermenting closer to 67-68 F in the FC, rather than the programed 65 F. I guess my thermostat is a little off...

...If I get any off-flavors from this, I will be pissed...

Its not a yeast issue. The yeast will make the same amount of CO2 for a given amount of sugar regardless of the temperature you ferment at. It is a gas law issue. If you ferment your beer at 65F once fermentation is complete a certain amount of CO is in solution in the beer. This is determined by its temperature. If you had the same beer ferment at 75F once done is will have less CO2 in solution. You now want to carbonate your beer to a certain pressure so it will be appropriate when poured at its serving temperature. To determine how much priming sugar to add to get that amount of CO2 in solution requires that you know how much CO2 is already in your beer - which is temperature dependent. The kits and general recipes ignore this but it can make a significant difference - especially for some of the lighter carbonated varieties.

This is a real world example of the Ideal gas law in action:

The state of an amount of gas is determined by its pressure, volume, and temperature. The modern form of the equation is:

pV = nRT

In SI units, p is measured in pascals; V in cubic metres; n in moles; and T in kelvin. R has the value 8.314472 J·K−1·mol−1.

GT

 

[rainingbullets]

Its not a yeast issue. The yeast will make the same amount of CO2 for a given amount of sugar regardless of the temperature you ferment at. It is a gas law issue. If you ferment your beer at 65F once fermentation is complete a certain amount of CO is in solution in the beer. This is determined by its temperature. If you had the same beer ferment at 75F once done is will have less CO2 in solution. You now want to carbonate your beer to a certain pressure so it will be appropriate when poured at its serving temperature. To determine how much priming sugar to add to get that amount of CO2 in solution requires that you know how much CO2 is already in your beer - which is temperature dependent. The kits and general recipes ignore this but it can make a significant difference - especially for some of the lighter carbonated varieties.

This is a real world example of the Ideal gas law in action:

GT

Heh, as a mechanical engineering student at Chico State, the ideal gas law is beaten into our heads all three semesters of thermodynamics. This principle is also why beer tends to be more "fizzy" at warmer temperatures.

In the past, I have opened room temperature home brew and had it fizz and spill all over the place. However, when i open a chilled home brew (~45 F), I barely get any head out of it, even when poured straight into the glass (no tilting).

Could this be due to me using ~6 oz corn sugar, and bottling at ~74 F?