Bottle Conditioning - Newbie Question

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

ThreeTaps

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
520
Reaction score
7
Location
Pacific Beach, CA
Even though I've done 6 batches now, I'm just starting to reap the benefits of actually drinking my creations. With that said, I've noticed a HUGE difference in drinkability at week 2.5 of bottle conditioning between my first (Blonde Ale, was very drinkable and good) and my next batches (Cherry Wheat Ale / Pumpkin Spice Ale, which I took a few sips of but poured out the rest. Very green). I've come to the conclusion that the more complex (more flavors that need to mesh together) a beer is, the longer it will take to bottle condition.

Can somebody confirm this?
 
Confirmed.....Sort of.

But it usually has more to do with the ABV/gravity of the beer, which usually tend to be the more complex recipes/grainbills.....There's not a lot of "complexity" in the malt bill of a hefeweizen or even a Light lager...but in a porter or a stout you may have a hugely complex grain bill with lots of roasted grains that may need more time to meld together.
 
So it's been about 5 weeks now, think it's safe to crack one open and see? I would go ahead, but I don't want to ruin a good bottle before it's ready. Anybody able to chime in who's done fruit beers?
 
Confirmed.....Sort of.

But it usually has more to do with the ABV/gravity of the beer, which usually tend to be the more complex recipes/grainbills.....There's not a lot of "complexity" in the malt bill of a hefeweizen or even a Light lager...but in a porter or a stout you may have a hugely complex grain bill with lots of roasted grains that may need more time to meld together.

To expand, or clarify, on the point that I THINK Revvy is trying to make, there is a lot of "complexity" in the malt bill of a hefeweizen, but this is not a beer you want conditioning for a long time. I think a hefe is a good, albeit rare, exception to OPs observations. Whereas the porters and stouts are good examples to that rule.

So it's been about 5 weeks now, think it's safe to crack one open and see? I would go ahead, but I don't want to ruin a good bottle before it's ready. Anybody able to chime in who's done fruit beers?

Do it. Don't look at it as potentially wasting a bottle. You're monitoring the progress of your beer. If you go ahead and make another batch of this, or similar brew in the future, you'll have a better idea of how long it will take to condition, and where it will be in the conditioning phase after x amount of weeks. For someone new like you and I, learning more about our beer is the best we can hope for (well, that and some great beer to drink!) :tank: Let us know how it turns out!
 
To expand, or clarify, on the point that I THINK Revvy is trying to make, there is a lot of "complexity" in the malt bill of a hefeweizen, but this is not a beer you want conditioning for a long time. I think a hefe is a good, albeit rare, exception to OPs observations. Whereas the porters and stouts are good examples to that rule.



Do it. Don't look at it as potentially wasting a bottle. You're monitoring the progress of your beer. If you go ahead and make another batch of this, or similar brew in the future, you'll have a better idea of how long it will take to condition, and where it will be in the conditioning phase after x amount of weeks. For someone new like you and I, learning more about our beer is the best we can hope for (well, that and some great beer to drink!) :tank: Let us know how it turns out!

Thanks for the advise. I already put a 22 of this and my pumpkin spice ale in the freezer for an hour, and will drink it soon to see how it has aged. I really want it to be good, because I've been excited about this Cherry Wheat for a while now.
 
Like Revvy said, I think it ties to the higher ABV in terms of the length condition time.

I also think there is a "peak" where the beer tastes its best & doesn't really improve beyond that. Not that the taste degrades from there at all, but it doesn't really get better. So waiting longer for some beers doesn't necessarily equate to tasting better for long condition times.
 
Opening a bottle in a week = waste.
Opening a bottle after 5 weeks? A good show of patience and possibly the first decent taste of the (probably not that green) beer whether or not it is carbed.

Let us know how it is.
 
I opened a week old bottle today and it tasted like starsan almost... I'm hoping the whole batch wont taste like that.

all this because I wanted to save some money on water.... and used tapwater...
 
I opened a week old bottle today and it tasted like starsan almost... I'm hoping the whole batch wont taste like that.

all this because I wanted to save some money on water.... and used tapwater...

I use tapwater all the time....again...you are drinking green beer....a waste...give it some more time like a couple more weeks....
 
this tasted like starsan though... I always drink a week in to see what's happening but something is different in this brew... and unfortunately I brewed 3 more with tap water right after it so if it is my tapwater, I got 20 gallons of bad beer.

that I will drink anyway
 
Man, if you have Star-San coming out of your tap you will be rich! In all seriousness I have tasted a similar flavor in a beer that I aged too long. This was a Mr. Beer batch which tasted great at 8 weeks but like soap at 5 months... A good experiment that I do not consider a waste of a beer.
 
this tasted like starsan though... I always drink a week in to see what's happening but something is different in this brew... and unfortunately I brewed 3 more with tap water right after it so if it is my tapwater, I got 20 gallons of bad beer.

that I will drink anyway

Did your previous batches have tap water too? Check your water profile for where you live, see what the numbers are. I use only tap water and my beer tastes great after aging sufficiently.
 
never used tap water...

I think age will fix it, if it doesn't then I just pray that the other 3 batches are ok. from now on Im back to bottled water
 
Alright, so I popped a bottle open and poured a pint. First off, this thing builds head like crazy, and is quite bubbly compared to my oatmeal stout and blonde ale. It's far better than it was 2 weeks ago, but the cherry flavor still hasn't come out very much. I do, however, get a cherry tang that shows up at the back (sides) of my tongue after taking a drink, most likely from the extract. I'm going to drink this bottle and let it sit another week to see how the cherry flavor develops.

It's pretty good, but after taking two more swigs it really does have quite a lot of carbonation. It's like drinking bubbly, even though it doesn't "overflow" with head like most over-carbed beers do.

EDIT: after drinking 1/4 bottle, it was giving me the burps pretty bad and I'd rather drink a quality, properly aged beer instead, so I poured it out. I then popped open my Pumpkin Spice Ale, and though the pumpkin spice flavor has really developed quite nicely, there was also an overpowering almost rotten taste as well (much worse in that regard than a couple weeks ago). I'm going to let the pumpkin spice ale sit for another two weeks and give it another try.
 
Opening a bottle in a week = waste.
Opening a bottle after 5 weeks? A good show of patience and possibly the first decent taste of the (probably not that green) beer whether or not it is carbed.

Let us know how it is.

I will respectfully... slightly disagree with the first part of your post. I am a pretty new brewer (6 batches, all extract) but I have been sampling a beer after a few days, then a week later, then a week later... and so on.

I do this to help me understand the changes that take place while in the bottle. Now, for someone with more experience, this might be something that they already know. But since I'm so green, I think it's a great way to help understand this part of the brewing process.
 
I will respectfully... slightly disagree with the first part of your post. I am a pretty new brewer (6 batches, all extract) but I have been sampling a beer after a few days, then a week later, then a week later... and so on.

I do this to help me understand the changes that take place while in the bottle. Now, for someone with more experience, this might be something that they already know. But since I'm so green, I think it's a great way to help understand this part of the brewing process.

Well you may disagree, but honestly you will find very little change in your beer's taste between bottling day and the anytime in the first week. That 2-5 day old beer will have very little difference it flavor from your hydro sample.

It's a great rationalization, and I hear it every time I make my assertion. But the thing to remember is that since every beer is different that 5 day old Ipa you may have decided to sample is not goig to taste anything like that 5 day old brown ale you brewed in your next batch. They're two different animals.

If you read my bottling blog, you will see that I actually advocate that if someone wants to do an evolving taste experiment to learn about their beer that they begin on day 7......

Revvy said:
A good experiment, for any brewer to do, is to pull a beer out on the 7th day in the bottle and chill it for 2...then taste it...make notes on the tastes and the level of carb. Do it again on the 14th day, the 21st and the 28th...you'll really see the difference. Then leave a bottle stashed away for 6 months...chill that and taste it...and go back and read your notes... You'll learn a heck of a lot about beer doing that.

Which in reality since you chilled it is actually day 9.....there should be some noticeable change from hydro sample by then. But I'm sorry, tasting in the first week is going to teach you very little.....

The biggest thing that comes up though is that often since the brewer doesn't really know what he's tasting, does often panic...and often starts a "my beer taste funky thread..." which we of course answer "It's green.":D
 
I will respectfully... slightly disagree with the first part of your post. I am a pretty new brewer (6 batches, all extract) but I have been sampling a beer after a few days, then a week later, then a week later... and so on.

I do this to help me understand the changes that take place while in the bottle. Now, for someone with more experience, this might be something that they already know. But since I'm so green, I think it's a great way to help understand this part of the brewing process.

I think it's fair to assume that the majority of brewers then, who already know the progression timeline of beer that is conditioning, should follow Revvy's advise above. New brewers however, are given their "taste-at-any-time" card until they've reached brew 7 :cross:
 
here's a big noob question.

what does it mean to say that the beer is still "green"?

Green is a catch all term for any flavors/aromas that is present in a beer that is simply a result of the beer being young, and not having been conditioned out with time. Sort of like the term "greenhorn" used to refer to a new cowboy.

But interestingly enough, a green beer often exhibits flavors of green apple.

This old post of mine, about those "off flavor" or off aroma charts should give you an idea further of what I am talking about. Someone was saying their beer smelled a certain way in the fermenter...but it applies to flavors in young beers as well.

revvy said:
The thing to remember though is that if you are smelling this during fermentation not to worry. During fermentation all manner of stinky stuff is given off (ask lager brewers about rotten egg/sulphur smells, or Apfelwein makers about "rhino farts,") like we often say, fermentation is often ugly AND stinky and PERFECTLY NORMAL.

It's really only down the line, AFTER the beer has been fermented (and often after it has bottle conditioned even,) when you should consider using this or the off flavor charts to diagnose the beer.

I think too many new brewers focus to much on this stuff too early in the beer's journey. And they panic unnecessarily.

A lot of the stuff you smell/taste initially more than likely ends up disappearing either during a long primary/primary & secondary combo, Diacetyl rests and even during bottle conditioning.

If I find a flavor/smell, I usually wait til it's been in the bottle 6 weeks before I try to "diagnose" what went wrong, that way I am sure the beer has passed any window of greenness.

Fementation is often ugly, smelly and crappy tasting in the beginning and perfectly normal. The various conditioning phases, be it long primary, secondarying, D-rests, bottle conditioning, AND LAGERING, are all part of the process where the yeast, and co2 correct a lot of the normal production of the byproducts of fermentation.

Lagering is a prime example of this. Lager yeast are prone to the production of a lot of byproducts, the most familiar one is sulphur compounds (rhino farts) but in the dark cold of the lagering process, which is at the minimum of a month (I think many homebrewers don't lager long enough) the yeast slowly consumes all those compounds which results in extremely clean tasting beers if done skillfully.

Ales have their own version of this, but it's all the same.

If you are sampling your beer before you have passed a 'window of greeness" which my experience is about 3-6 weeks in the bottle, then you are more than likely just experiencing an "off flavor" due to the presence of those byproducts (that's what we mean when we say the beer is "green" it's still young and unconditioned.) but once the process is done, over 90% of the time the flavors/smells are gone.

Of the remaining 10%, half of those may still be salvageable through the long time storage that I mention in the Never dump your beer!!! Patience IS a virtue!!! Time heals all things, even beer:

And the remaining 50% of the last 10% are where these tables and lists come into play. To understand what you did wrong, so you can avoid it in the future.

Long story short....I betcha that smell will be long gone when the cider is carbed and conditioned.
 
Thanks for the advise. I already put a 22 of this and my pumpkin spice ale in the freezer for an hour, and will drink it soon to see how it has aged. I really want it to be good, because I've been excited about this Cherry Wheat for a while now.

Although off topic from the original post, does your note imply you go from conditioning to 1 hour in the freezer, to drinking? or is the 1 hour in the freezer to make it icey cold?

As I understand it, you might be better off to go from conditioning temps to the refrigerator for 2-5 days, then drink. You might get much better carb, head, and blending if you do this. I have heard that you should not chill with the freezer for an hour and then drink.

I can confirm, however, that there is a big advantage to putting my conditioned bottles in the fridge for 1 week prior to opening them. This requires patience, but is well worth it.

The high bubbly condition you referred to I think is due to the freezer method, but not sure.
 
I think it's fair to assume that the majority of brewers then, who already know the progression timeline of beer that is conditioning, should follow Revvy's advise above. New brewers however, are given their "taste-at-any-time" card until they've reached brew 7 :cross:

Dang!

Thanks for the advice Revvy. If I understand what you are saying, there is little to no difference between the beer at the time of bottling, and before 7 days. Therefore, if one wants to determine the "progression timeline" (thanks for the moniker threetaps), they should start at 1 week, and go from there. Right?
 
Dang!

Thanks for the advice Revvy. If I understand what you are saying, there is little to no difference between the beer at the time of bottling, and before 7 days. Therefore, if one wants to determine the "progression timeline" (thanks for the moniker threetaps), they should start at 1 week, and go from there. Right?

Yeah....though even then it is really going to be a negligable difference....but if people insist then chilling on the 7th day for 1 or 2 days is a good idea.

Typically for me I don't open any earlier than 2.5 weeks, and that's usually because I get impatient to taste the latest recipe..but inevitably it's not carbed and still very green even then..because most of my beers are above 1.060 OG and that is actually the bottom of the "Big Beer" scale, so it's really not going to be ready yet usually.

But just remember, don't judge, or stress out about wheter it is carbed or not or how it tastes yet. It will more than likely been green and yeasty and still relatively flat.

So don't go starting any of "those kind" or threads. :D
 
Back
Top