Boosting Windsor Dry Yeast Attenuation

[Druman07]

I like the taste of the ales I have brewed with Windsor dry yeast, but I am less than thrilled with attenuation which is in the mid 60%, which seems to be typical for this yeast. For my upcoming Irish Red, I would like to get the flavor of Windsor, but have a drier ale. I have seen posts here where Safale US-05 was suggested to be added to increase attenuation. Assuming I start with the Windsor to get the nice taste, when would I add the Safale yeast, and would the amount added be the same amount utilized for a normal batch? Does this technique require more time fermenting?
Guidance is appreciated!

 

[dmtaylor]

Most people add Nottingham. US-05 will work almost equally as well. I would let the Windsor work for about 24 hours, then add one of the other yeasts to finish the job. Or you could just pitch both together at the same time at beginning.

Cheers and good luck.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I hit 74% apparent attenuation on my last oatmeal stout which was fermented with a 50/50 blend (1 pack of each) of Windsor and S-04. I rehydrated them together. No staggering of the additions.

 

[Pappers_]

Another option is to mash lower to get a more fermentable wort, which would lead to a drier, more attenuated beer.

 

[dmtaylor]

Another option is to mash lower to get a more fermentable wort, which would lead to a drier, more attenuated beer.

Maybe, if mashed for a loooooooooong time, overnight.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

You could also replace ~15% of your base malt with dextrose. That will surely get the apparent attenuation up a good bit.

 

[Pappers_]

Maybe, if mashed for a loooooooooong time, overnight.

I hear you, but I make a honey ale that ends at 1.008 +/- with Windsor. My point is you can affect attenuation in other ways than only your selection of yeast. If a brewer likes Windsor for a beer, s/he has options.

 

[Steveruch]

How quickly does Windsor drop out? Rousing it back into suspension might help, it does with WLP002.

 

[kevin58]

would adding some brut enzymes work?

 

[dmtaylor]

How quickly does Windsor drop out? Rousing it back into suspension might help, it does with WLP002.

Drops like a ROCK, like no other yeast on Earth. Goes from zero to complete in <36 hours every time.

 

[RM-MN]

Maybe, if mashed for a loooooooooong time, overnight.

Wouldn't help. Mash enzymes are quickly denatured at mash temps. Those of us who have tried an overnight mash report that they attenuate normally.

 

[dmtaylor]

Wouldn't help. Mash enzymes are quickly denatured at mash temps. Those of us who have tried an overnight mash report that they attenuate normally.

What if you mash low at like 144 F?

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Interestingly enough, unless I'm looking at this research (see link) totally incorrectly, the beer mashed at a higher temperature had less maltotriose than the beer mashed at low temperature. The study states that the maltotriose in the high temperature mash was only 23% of that formed in a normal temperature mash. Windsor yeast is claimed to result in high finished gravity because it doesn't consume maltotriose. Perhaps we have been going at this backwards. Hmmm... ???????

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/j.2050-0416.1991.tb01055.x

 

[Druman07]

Another option is to mash lower to get a more fermentable wort, which would lead to a drier, more attenuated beer.

I typically mash between 148-150. Perhaps reducing temp to 144 may help. Otherwise the 50/50 mix sounds like the way to go.

 

[RM-MN]

The literature didn't specify at what exact temperature the enzymes denatured. I believe that 144F is below the alpha amylase activity so either it won't work or will work very slowly. Sounds like the basis for an experiment. Got a small mash tun so you can experiment with a really small batch?

 

[dmtaylor]

Amylase doesn't care what the temperature is. It isn't alive and doesn't carry a thermometer around with it to know when it's supposed to act or not -- "whoops, temperature isn't 150 F yet, can't do anything below that, no sir". No. It doesn't do that. It's active at just about any reasonable temperature, just might be a bit slower than normal if cool in the 130s or 140s. Beta, on the other hand, denatures fast at hot temps. But at cool temps, neither will denature fast, and given lots of time, they'll chomp chomp chomp at the dextrins.

 

[thehaze]

I usually hit between 70 and 73% AA with Windsor, so I was a bit contrived when I started using it and most threads on the Internet said that this yeast will hit around 65% AA. Before I started brewing with it, I did some research and my conclusions were that I needed to mash low with this yeast ( 147-149F ) and add some sugar to the boil, replacing some malt if you may. I also imagined that in worts with 10-15-20% specialty malts, the attenuation will also suffer a bit.

I do mix it with Nottingham and the results are very good. Nottingham helps with the attenuation, dries the beer out a bit, pushes the post-fermentation pH closer to 4 and helps greatly with flocculation and sedimentation - if bottling/canning. Windsor can stick to the bottom of the bottle/can, but it will become powdery fast if you rattle the bottle/can too much and pour the while thing in. Nottingham however sticks firmly to the bottom.

 

[Christoff]

I like the taste of the ales I have brewed with Windsor dry yeast, but I am less than thrilled with attenuation which is in the mid 60%, which seems to be typical for this yeast. For my upcoming Irish Red, I would like to get the flavor of Windsor, but have a drier ale. I have seen posts here where Safale US-05 was suggested to be added to increase attenuation. Assuming I start with the Windsor to get the nice taste, when would I add the Safale yeast, and would the amount added be the same amount utilized for a normal batch? Does this technique require more time fermenting?
Guidance is appreciated!

I know this is a post from a few years ago and you may not remember what happened, but I am curious the outcome of your beer and what you ultimately decided to do. I am in a pickle with a porter/stout hybrid where windsor hit 46% attenuation after 36 hours, which in my experience, not much happens after that. I am contemplating throwing some notty or s-o5 in but I am stuck as to which one. I don't want it to wipe out some of what I was going for by using windsor but 46% is just too low. My tilt has it at 1.038.