Boiling hops for 90 mins

[Bru]

Can hops be boiled for 90 mins ?
Most of the lager recipes Ive seen have a total boil time of 90 mins but the longest hop addition is 60 min - why ?
Surely less hops would be needed in a 90 min boil as opposed to 60 min with the same bittering potential - especially when a low AA hop, like 3% Saaz, is used.

 

[DavidSteel]

If you are doing a 90 minute boil, don't add any hops the first 30 minutes. There is a chart floating around that says what hops do the longer you boil them (and I believe it says not to boil them longer than 60). You can, but I believe it would have a negative effect on your beer.

 

[z987k]

If you are doing a 90 minute boil, don't add any hops the first 30 minutes. There is a chart floating around that says what hops do the longer you boil them (and I believe it says not to boil them longer than 60). You can, but I believe it would have a negative effect on your beer.

I'd love to see that information. I haven't seen anything indicating negative flavors from a 90 min boil of hops in reading, and don't know if I've tasted a 60 vs 90 side by side to taste a difference.

To the OP, there is negligible increase in isomerization with the extra 30mins because the majority of the alpha acids have already been isomerized. For example, (using software) I calculated in a 1.050g/ml wort 1oz of 5.0%AA hops boiled for 60mins yields 16IBU. Under the same conditions only boiled for 90min, I get 17IBU.

The reason most lagers call for a 90 minute boil is most lagers have a good portion of pils malt which is kilned at a lower temperature and the SMM(which later manifests itself as DMS in the boil) is not reduced during malting so we boil longer to boil off the DMS in the wort.
I would look up malting, S-methyl-methionine and Dimethyl Sulfide for more info.

 

[Bru]

Thanks for your reply, I understand the reason for the long boil is the DMS in pilsner malt. What you say makes sense - there is a limit to the bitterness hops can provide.

 

[MattHollingsworth]

If you are doing a 90 minute boil, don't add any hops the first 30 minutes. There is a chart floating around that says what hops do the longer you boil them (and I believe it says not to boil them longer than 60). You can, but I believe it would have a negative effect on your beer.

I first wort hop all of my beers, which means the first addition is in the boil for 90 minutes. Done that for a ton of batches, maybe 50, and no ill effects. A lot of those beers have won gold medals too. I think it's totally inaccurate to indicate that a 90 minute addition is going to give an off flavor or bad effect.

 

[Bru]

Matt - have you compared the same beer with FWH and 60 min ?
I understand Beersmith et al can work out the IBU but ultimately the proof is in the drinking.

 

[MattHollingsworth]

Matt - have you compared the same beer with FWH and 60 min ?
I understand Beersmith et al can work out the IBU but ultimately the proof is in the drinking.

Nope, but I've brewed with and without 90 minute additions and have never noticed anything off with 90 minute additions. In my experience, a 90 minute FWH addition is *cleaner*. But no, I haven't done the same beer twice to compare a 60 vs 90 minute addition.

 

[Bru]

Cool, thanks.

 

[pjj2ba]

It is generally advised to wait until after the hot break to add the bittering hops as the proteins can grab onto some bittering compounds and thus reduce the bittering, wheather it be a 60 or 90 min. boil addition. Of course this advice is contrary to what happens when one FW Hops (which I often do). Maybe this plays part of the role is smoothing out the bitterness?