Boil kettle condenser - no overhead ventilation needed

[day_trippr]

That's a hella lot of interfacing to try to seal - on my 20g kettles that would mean almost 10 linear feet of combined seams (top and bottom edges) to hold tight enough for the slayer to actually work. Seems like a big ask...

Cheers!

 

[Brewbuzzard]

Interesting thread here that got me thinking. Was wondering if anyone has considered making/modifying some kind of an "extender ring" that could be installed between the lid and the brew kettle, assuming one did not want to drill a hole in their kettle. Maybe a "tight fit" in the kettle so it is solidly secured. The hole can then be made in the extender. A counterweight on the other side might be needed too, depending on the design, but might be too bulky and not adhering to the "KISS" way of thinking (aka, keep it simple stupid). The link gives an idea of what this extender may look like, although in concept only. Thoughts?
https://images.app.goo.gl/8ZBWEJvrbL7fJ6hC7

The main problem I see is there are so many different size kettles not to mention lip configurations.

 

[Bobby_M]

As opposed to the elbow through the lid solution?

 

[BrunDog]

I understand the hesitance to put a hole in the kettle but if you already do that fornelements, drains, etc. then there shouldn’t be much concern.

 

[Belgian Son]

Thought I'd share my take on a steam condenser built from a cocktail shaker, maximizing the volume while keeping the cost down. Silver soldered the large lid interface, but keeping the smaller friction fit cap. Much lighter weight than using tri-clamps too.

 

[crane]

Thought I'd share my take on a steam condenser built from a cocktail shaker, maximizing the volume while keeping the cost down. Silver soldered the large lid interface, but keeping the smaller friction fit cap. Much lighter weight than using tri-clamps too.View attachment 650323 View attachment 650324

I love it. Although I personally prefer mine stirred not shaken.

 

[BrunDog]

Pretty smart!

 

[Bobby_M]

That is very cool. I've been experimenting with lighter weight containers for the larger spray pattern to avoid the bulk and weight of 3" TC parts. My biggest concern about leveraging containers like that is corrosion resistance. Most of that stuff is not made from 304 or 316 stainless. Any spot rusting inside?

 

[Belgian Son]

That is very cool. I've been experimenting with lighter weight containers for the larger spray pattern to avoid the bulk and weight of 3" TC parts. My biggest concern about leveraging containers like that is corrosion resistance. Most of that stuff is not made from 304 or 316 stainless. Any spot rusting inside?

Have not seen any rusting yet. Been very pleased with the performance.

 

[matt_m]

I'll admit I'm pretty terrified of drilling into my custom Spike kettle. Should have ordered it with the top port but they couldn't put it closer than 2" down which I later read would have been fine.

Question on that. @Bobby_M recommends a 40mm hole saw for the 1.5" TC bulkhead. Seems a tiny bit small. Is that because you want the fitting to thread into the wall a bit?

 

[Bobby_M]

Its more related to the fact that the agressive teeth on the bits make a slightly rough hole that needs deburring. That takes it to the final hole size needed. Nothing is quite as bad as making the hole too big.

The lid is always an option. Its slightly less catostrophic if that goes south. You can also ship the lid to me for ferrule welding.

Bobby

I'll admit I'm pretty terrified of drilling into my custom Spike kettle. Should have ordered it with the top port but they couldn't put it closer than 2" down which I later read would have been fine.

Question on that. @Bobby_M recommends a 40mm hole saw for the 1.5" TC bulkhead. Seems a tiny bit small. Is that because you want the fitting to thread into the wall a bit?

 

[bmwguy]

When you have the lid on and the condenser going, you have to turn the heat source down significantly to achieve the same boil intensity. For example I used to run my heating element at 65% duty cycle without the condenser. Now I am using 25% duty cycle and I am still getting a gentle rolling boil like I was before, but less volume boiled off over the course of an hour. For me I am using about a half gallon less preboil volume than before to achieve the same post boil volume.

If you're boiling off 1 gallon of water doesn't matter if it's boiled hard or soft still the same amount of steam.

 

[BrunDog]

I think the point is you have to turn the power input way down since that heat doesn't escape as much. But it is true that the boil-off rate is less. I think this is just the function of a chamber that is filled with steam - there is no dry air backfilling the rising steam, creating a path for more evaporation. It's a good thing IMO, unless you are counting on boiling off a lot of liquid to bump your OG.

 

[Bobby_M]

Agree, just accept the lower boil off rate and integrate that into your process. If that means a slightly lower efficiency, scale up to meet the recipe numbers.

 

[WesBrew]

You could certainly do that. I also suspect that we are wasting a lot of condensing ability with the spray water not completely getting mixed with the steam. At some point the spray reaches the side wall of the tube, rendering it ineffective to condense and remove heat.

I might have missed it somewhere while skimming; but if this the case is it more effective to use a spray nozzle with a narrower spray pattern, particularly if your only spray chamber option is 1.5" ?

 

[BrunDog]

If your chamber is narrow, then yes it would be better to use a narrow spray... say 60 degrees.

 

[Gozie Boy]

I've got a 20 gal. Spike BK to which I've added a home-built 2" TC condenser system, with 9gph sprayer. It has worked wonders on all my brews. Yesterday I measured and had only a 0.5 gal./hr boil off (less than half of what I had before). I am using a 5500W element, and stopped reducing power at 42%. Probably could have gone lower (the effluent was only luke warm, of course affected by the large spray rate), but I got tired of repeatedly looking inside to ensure that things were still boiling. I am pretty sure that I could do as well with a 6 gph nozzle, and probably a 1.5" system. (I'm also curious about the efficiency of the fog-type nozzle, which I think would have even better heat exchange characteristics to a spray nozzle). But it works and works very well, so I am now focused on bigger fish in my brewing efforts.

Thanks again to BrunDog and his development and promotion of this terrific solution! It has saved me probably $2500 in a SS hood and vent system (including another hole in my roof!), not to mention all the bulk and maintenance that goes with it. Game changer for steam management.

 

[aeviaanah]

Are there benefits to a reduced boil off rate?

 

[day_trippr]

If you like your beer color as light as possible, there's one benefit.
Down side is it could reduce efficiency...

Cheers!

 

[aeviaanah]

If you like your beer color as light as possible, there's one benefit.
Down side is it could reduce efficiency...

Cheers!

If brewing dark beers are there any benefits?

How does it reduce efficiency? Perhaps a lower sparge amount since preboil is lower?

 

[day_trippr]

I'd have to think about the dark beer thing, but obviously avoiding meloidinan conversion isn't as much of an issue wrt color once you've gone past ~10 SRM.

Wrt efficiency, unless you're going to simply extend the boil to make up for the reduced boil-off rate you can't sparge as much hence efficiency almost has to drop...

Cheers!

 

[Franktalk]

If brewing dark beers are there any benefits?

How does it reduce efficiency? Perhaps a lower sparge amount since preboil is lower?

Yes, because the reason for lower boil off is caused by needing less heat to maintain your boil, you lower the thermal stress on your wort. Some benefits are less damage to heading and flavor compounds in the wort. Your beer will be better in many ways.

As an added bonus, you'll use less energy.

As far as efficiency goes, all you have to do is adjust your sparge and your efficiency should remain at what it was previously on your system.

 

[aeviaanah]

Cool thanks for the info guys if anyone has a more in depth look on wort heat stress I’d like to give it a read. I believe Kunze did some work on this? Can anyone reference book/chapter?

This is the second time revisiting this on our 6bbl system. At 40deg from our cold liquor tank, this calculates our to around 90 gal waste water. Does anyone have ideas for reusing this water? Perhaps for cleaning? Not sure I want to collect and re cool as this will pretty much eliminate the power savings..

What percent boil off reduction are we seeing on average?

 

[Paulaner]

Cool thanks for the info guys if anyone has a more in depth look on wort heat stress I’d like to give it a read. I believe Kunze did some work on this? Can anyone reference book/chapter?

This is the second time revisiting this on our 6bbl system. At 40deg from our cold liquor tank, this calculates our to around 90 gal waste water. Does anyone have ideas for reusing this water? Perhaps for cleaning? Not sure I want to collect and re cool as this will pretty much eliminate the power savings..

What percent boil off reduction are we seeing on average?

Kunze mentions TBI multiple times, mainly in Chapter 3 though. Also, read his entire book and you'll learn the waste water recycling procedures.

 

[WesBrew]

If brewing dark beers are there any benefits?

How does it reduce efficiency? Perhaps a lower sparge amount since preboil is lower?

speaking brewhouse efficiency or pitching-OG & using same starting volume/sparge, sugars in wort would be more diluted because less water was boiled off. to finish with correct volume of wort, yeah, you'd have to sparge with less. then your mash efficiency will go down a bit. so to hit target numbers and have the correct amount of finished beer we'll have to make minor adjustments to grain bill.
My recipies are based on the numbers I hit, around 75%. I get that because of sparging with extra water to get more extraction and boiling off all the excess water. my GAS/OPEN POT boil-off was typically around 18%, which is way higher than a brewery. will be much lower when I switch

 

[Franktalk]

My boil off rate is 5.2% per hour with the condenser going and a rolling boil.

speaking brewhouse efficiency or pitching-OG & using same starting volume/sparge, sugars in wort would be more diluted because less water was boiled off. to finish with correct volume of wort, yeah, you'd have to sparge with less. then your mash efficiency will go down a bit. so to hit target numbers and have the correct amount of finished beer we'll have to make minor adjustments to grain bill.
My recipies are based on the numbers I hit, around 75%. I get that only because of sparging with extra water to get more extraction and boiling off all the excess water. my boil-off is typically around 18%, which is way higher than a brewery.

That seems excessive to me.

 

[aeviaanah]

Kunze mentions TBI multiple times, mainly in Chapter 3 though. Also, read his entire book and you'll learn the waste water recycling procedures.

Thanks. I read quite a bit today regarding TBI. Looks like you can RO filter this or use it to lubricate belts

 

[WesBrew]

My boil off rate is 5.2% per hour with the condenser going and a rolling boil.



That seems excessive to me.

that was my boil off on the gas/open pot system. my electric/condenser setup isn't done

 

[mstevens]

I built and tested my setup this weekend. I am running a pump off of my HLT tank as the input water and draining into a bucket. Boil off was at 1/2 gallon for 60 min boil.

SEAFLO DC Diaphragm Pump - 12v, 3.0 GPM, 45PSI w/Automatic Switch https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MUXMF40/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_edZ2DbWRHXST1

 

[mstevens]

I built and tested my setup this weekend. I am running a pump off of my HLT tank as the input water and draining into a bucket. Boil off was at 1/2 gallon for 60 min boil.

SEAFLO DC Diaphragm Pump - 12v, 3.0 GPM, 45PSI w/Automatic Switch https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MUXMF40/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_edZ2DbWRHXST1

Well that pump stopped working about 45 min into the boil. I can't say I would recommend that one