Nice info. You could take an arbitrary measurement of the kettle and exhaust tube from this picture and come up with a ratio for the required diameter of any exhaust tube.
Boil kettle condenser - no overhead ventilation needed
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OP
OP
Diameter of either really doesn't matter. What matters is the amount of energy in the steam being pulled out enough for it to condense into liquid.
Gravitysucks
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I'm not sure you could really determine anything from those pictures. I just posted them because @Derry seemed concerned that because he was using larger piping that his spray nozzle needed to be very high in the pipe to work.
An air gap is when a discharge pipe or hose ends some distance above the drain pipe. The drain is larger to catch everything. Sometimes a floor sink is used. Sometimes a funnel. Sometimes it’s a piece of hardware that ties everything together like the ones for dishwashers.
The idea is that if the drain backs up, the waste water spreads across the floor rather than continuing up to your boil kettle.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_gap_(plumbing)
Derry
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I wasn’t concerned. I have just made a big mistake in my calculations overlooking the fact that sprayed water will return to kettle (basically went for option 1 in my sketch whereas I should have went for 3)
Same here. Option 3 is the way to go to avoid water and condensate returning to the kettle. The McMaster spray nozzles have a wide enough spray pattern that I wouldn't worry about the Option 3 nozzle positioning causing an issue condensing steam in 2" or larger piping as long as you have several inches of pipe (>2-4" maybe) below the nozzle.
Dag Jakobsen
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Has one considered the Venturi effect. If you increase the speed (of air, steam) the pressure decreases and thus make a vacuum. But this requires the flow not to be restricted in any way. I would think that if you omit the hose barb in the bottom and keep the bottom completely open you will create a fair amount of suction on the inlet side. What will create the more powerful vacuum, the cooling or the Venturi?
I don't think the Venturi effect applies when there is an open end on the condenser (i.e., no hose nipple), because the steam is condensing in a pipe of equal diameter to the inlet pipe for the steam and the velocity is decreasing, not increasing as you would see with a Venturi effect.
Put a hose barb on the end and water comes out, not gas, so maybe then there is some Venturi due to the constriction. But this is making my brain hurt
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Could the steam condenser be improved by putting a cone on the bottom below the "T" for the spray nozzle?!
There is definitely suction generated by the condensation of the steam without any fittings on the "T" below the spray nozzle.
On a related note, I have been contempating the applicability of a "steam ejector" design for condensing kettle steam, but I'm uncertain if the low-pressure steam generated by our kettles would be efficient. Steam ejectors tend to be used with very high pressure steam (motive fluid).
Put a hose barb on the end and water comes out, not gas, so maybe then there is some Venturi due to the constriction. But this is making my brain hurt
. Could the steam condenser be improved by putting a cone on the bottom below the "T" for the spray nozzle?!
There is definitely suction generated by the condensation of the steam without any fittings on the "T" below the spray nozzle.
On a related note, I have been contempating the applicability of a "steam ejector" design for condensing kettle steam, but I'm uncertain if the low-pressure steam generated by our kettles would be efficient. Steam ejectors tend to be used with very high pressure steam (motive fluid).
OP
OP
The spray water has some forward velocity, so that does create some vacuum/pressure. This is similar to the motive fluid nozzle above.
There may be a better aka more ideal design to the condenser, but I built the initial iteration using off the shelf parts, and it worked supremely well, so I didn’t chase alternate designs.
There may be a better aka more ideal design to the condenser, but I built the initial iteration using off the shelf parts, and it worked supremely well, so I didn’t chase alternate designs.
Dag Jakobsen
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Just what I was thinking!
I've made a similar design of 100mm PVC waste pipe (totally open bottom) and there was definitely a great deal of vacuum. I tested with holding a match just in front of the steam inlet and the flame went out immediately. The nozzle used was way too small to cool the steam efficiently (1gal./hour), and the PVC pipe also couldn't handle the temperature, so the project was terminated.
I am currently building one of 54mm copper tube, with a 9gal./hour nozzle. Hope this will do it!
Edit: The Venturi effect is not dependent on some constriction, just increase in velocity in some way. It is important that there is no restriction to reduce the velocity.
Some brewers even use a piece of hose with a large number of 1mm holes in it to drain wort from the boiler to the fermenter. The wort will not leak out of the holes, instead air will be sucked into the wort through the holes and provide ready airated wort in the fermenter.
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Well, I just finished with my first brew session with the steam slayer. I have it soldered the the side of my kettle, and then draining to my catch drain for my HVAC.
It worked flawlessly. And, I'm honestly so impressed, and can't wait to brew again. I used to brew in my garage, I've since moved and made a dedicated brew area. And, I used to have to run the heater to get rid of the steam in my garage, now, nothing. Just great.
The smell, alright guys, get over it. I asked my pregnant wife to come downstairs and smell it, and she can't even wear perfume, and she said it smells like the garage after you brew. So, meh she said it stinks, the I would have said deal with it. I honestly don't understand the issue with this???
My only catch is figuring out my kettle volume, which will come with time.
It worked flawlessly. And, I'm honestly so impressed, and can't wait to brew again. I used to brew in my garage, I've since moved and made a dedicated brew area. And, I used to have to run the heater to get rid of the steam in my garage, now, nothing. Just great.
The smell, alright guys, get over it. I asked my pregnant wife to come downstairs and smell it, and she can't even wear perfume, and she said it smells like the garage after you brew. So, meh she said it stinks, the I would have said deal with it. I honestly don't understand the issue with this???
My only catch is figuring out my kettle volume, which will come with time.
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Great to hear!
I'll admit the aroma is different than previous brew days. It used to smell more like caramel or malt. The waste from the slayer is definitely more like DMS and hop tea. I noticed it more on a recent brew day where I run the waste into a standpipe on the drain similar to how a washing machine drains in a finished laundry room. That pipe leads into a bathroom and taps into the sink's tailpiece pre-trap. That door was closed for the whole boil so the smell was coming out of the drain and filling the bathroom. On the last batch, I plugged the drain in that sink and could barely pick up the smell.
The way I look at it, I'd rather smell DMS on brew day than black mold a year from now.
I agree, I have 5-6 brews now with the condenser and after the first brew with a the condensate running into a bucket (sharp DMS smell lingered for 3-4hrs) I ran some PVC to my sump and run my drain to the PVC and smell is much more tolerable. I expect brewing in a garage has a lot less impact to the whole house than brewing in a basement where the HVAC system is. I wouldn't even consider it a worry if brewing in a garage. It was never enough to go back to a vent but it certainly wasn't pleasant like what a would consider that of a normal brew day. That said, this is a really awesome innovation...plus it saves energy (run my 240v boil coil at 38% vs 80% w/o the condenser).
processhead
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I can imagine the condensate concentrates all the smelly/volatile compounds that were in the steam. Catching the condensate in a closed vessel is a good idea, then drain it off somewhere else where it won't be released indoors. That's tough to do without some creative plumbing on a dedicated indoor drain line, or an outdoor drain.
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The air in the basement is not drawn into the HVAC at all under normal conditions.
Yeah, I have returns on each floor of my house. The basement return is is not in the brewery but still in the basement. I’m sure most of the smell mostly just percolates up through the floor though (I have exposed joists). Either way, the smell is mostly eliminated by running the drain to the sump.
#Buckeye Brewer#
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This may be a captain obvious question, but how big of a hole do you cut in the kettle for the 1.5 steam slayer. Is the hole 1.5” or should it be smaller? Are greenlee chassis punches the best way to cut the hole?
I used a 42mm carbide tipped hole saw for both of my 1.5" TC bulkheads. It worked really well, just make sure you use cutting fluid, drill a pilot hole, and go slow. I wasn't interested in spending what the punch cost, way too expensive.
Similarly, I used this 40mm carbide tipped hole saw. I'm pretty sure BrewHardware sells a similar hole saw and provides instructions. The punch is probably the cleanest route, but very expensive unless you're using it for a lot of holes or can share it with your club and amortize the cost.
kcinpdx
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I’ve been following this thread since the beginning and finally pulled the trigger on the steam slayer. While I do not yet know the final outcome of the beer, I can highly recommend the product. Installation took 10 mins on my Spike kettle and it worked flawlessly from boil to the end. It’s solved my venting issues in the garage. Now I will say that the resulting water smells terrible.....
I have been using this for a while now and have about 5 beers done with it. I just took gold for my Pale Ale at the 8 seconds of froth in WY. Pretty proud of that and this great addition to my kettle. As many have said thanks to @BrunDog for putting this great idea out there for us all to use.
For anyone using the steam slayer along with a plate chiller, what are you doing to help keep hop debris out of the plate chiller? I'm going to do my first brew with the steam slayer this Saturday and was going to try using a hop bag from @wilserbrewer held between the kettle and the lid.
All,
Getting ready to finalize my brew equipment decision for my new basement build. I am almost ready to pull the trigger on a turnkey Spike 15 gallon system. That was their recommendation for 5-10 gallon batches which is what I plan to brew. They are willing to weld in a port on the boil kettle, however, to closest to the top they can go is 2.5" from the top lip to the center of the 1.5" port. This leaves the kettle with a total volume of 12.5 gallons before liquid would enter the port and start draining. Is this close enough to the top to be effective and is 12.5 gallons enough room in the kettle? Attached is the drawing that Spike sent over per my request. Port will be on the right side of the kettle which is near my commercial sink for water supply and drainage.
Please bear with my newbie questions. This new setup will be my first time on all grain. I have been an extract brewer for about 4 years.
Thanks!
Adam
Getting ready to finalize my brew equipment decision for my new basement build. I am almost ready to pull the trigger on a turnkey Spike 15 gallon system. That was their recommendation for 5-10 gallon batches which is what I plan to brew. They are willing to weld in a port on the boil kettle, however, to closest to the top they can go is 2.5" from the top lip to the center of the 1.5" port. This leaves the kettle with a total volume of 12.5 gallons before liquid would enter the port and start draining. Is this close enough to the top to be effective and is 12.5 gallons enough room in the kettle? Attached is the drawing that Spike sent over per my request. Port will be on the right side of the kettle which is near my commercial sink for water supply and drainage.
Please bear with my newbie questions. This new setup will be my first time on all grain. I have been an extract brewer for about 4 years.
Thanks!
Adam
I thought I'd update this thread to let everyone know I went ahead and used the hop bag with the steam slayer and didn't have any issues about steam escaping from the lid.
Your boil-off with the condenser should be under a gallon, even for 10 gallons into a fermenter after kettle to fermenter loss, so you'll just barely make it. I know it's hard to buy this beautiful kettle with all welded ports and then add a weldless one manually, but you can definitely put that port at least an inch higher if you do it yourself. Since it's above the liquid line, this port is not as critical as the others. BTW, I added a 1.5" weldless TC port to my 20 gallon Spike kettle. Alternatvely, add the port to the lid as several others have done.
I'm assuming this is a boil kettle only since you reference the turnkey system. If you use it as a mash tun or HLT, you just put a cap over this top port.
CodeSection
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@1atom12, the cost difference between Spike's 15G and 20G, is only $30. If I were you, I would simply buy a 20G BK and not have to worry about having enough capacity. It will certainly help having a larger kettle to prevent boil overs.
In my case, I assembled a 2" boil kettle steam condenser from the parts listed in this thread. I had Spike install a 2" TC at the top of my BK where I attach the steam condenser. The 2" TC is installed at 2.5" dead center from the BK top lip. This means I can only add 17.25-17.75 gal of water to the BK.
My set up is a two kettle k-rim system. Since many of my recipes call for more water, I add water to the BK based upon the recipe and grain. However, I intentionally hold back 2 gallons. When the BK heats to 145F, I drain the hot water into two different 1 gallon containers. Then I add the previously withheld non-heated 2 gallons of water into the BK. Once the temperature gets to the desired level, I transfer water from the BK to the MT.
You may not have to perform the above if you buy the 20G. However, I am fairly certain with the 15G, you will have trouble with water volume on some recipes.
Thanks for the input so far guys. Really appreciated. Talked with Ryan at Spike today and he checked with the welding team and they are willing to install the port a half an inch higher at 2 inches. Not sure how much more capacity this would give me.
What if I just purchased the whole 20 gallon setup? HLT, MT and BK? Would I still be able to do a 5 gallon batch? The cost is not that much more. Most of the time I will be doing 10 gallon batches. paying this kind of coin, I also want the whole system to look nice as well. I know that sounds shallow, but I want all 3 kettles the same size.
Maybe that extra half an inch will make all the difference on the 15 gallon?
What if I just purchased the whole 20 gallon setup? HLT, MT and BK? Would I still be able to do a 5 gallon batch? The cost is not that much more. Most of the time I will be doing 10 gallon batches. paying this kind of coin, I also want the whole system to look nice as well. I know that sounds shallow, but I want all 3 kettles the same size.
Maybe that extra half an inch will make all the difference on the 15 gallon?
CodeSection
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I do not believe 1/2" will make that much of a difference. Whereas, the 20G BK is 2" taller and almost 3" wider.
On another note, what are you planning on using the TC port on the front at 6" high for? Below is what Spike did for me...
On another note, what are you planning on using the TC port on the front at 6" high for? Below is what Spike did for me...
CodeSection
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You can easily do a five gallon batch using a 20G BK. However, if you are going to use a manual thermometer, it would be better to have it at 4" high rather than 6" high. You will not need the 20G MT or 20G HLT for five or even maybe 10 gallon brews. Though, I like the extra space of the MT when brewing 10 gallons.
Have you compared the advantages/disadvantages of Herms vs RIMS? There is a thread on HBT that discusses it. If I find it, I'll post the link.
Once I started brewing with the 20G kettles, I have not looked back and only brew that amount. But, at least I have the option for a five gallon brew. Below is my setup. The thermometer on the BK is on the left out of the picture....
Have you compared the advantages/disadvantages of Herms vs RIMS? There is a thread on HBT that discusses it. If I find it, I'll post the link.
Once I started brewing with the 20G kettles, I have not looked back and only brew that amount. But, at least I have the option for a five gallon brew. Below is my setup. The thermometer on the BK is on the left out of the picture....
CodeSection
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@1atom12, you might find this thread helpful... https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/2-vessel-herms-or-3-vessels.663369/
Thanks everyone for your input. I think I'm going to pull the trigger on the 20 gallon full system. Maybe I can talk them into moving the thermometer down to 4 inches while they are at it.
BTW, my Steam Slayer arrives tomorrow. The first piece purchased for my new brewery.
Thanks again all
BTW, my Steam Slayer arrives tomorrow. The first piece purchased for my new brewery.
Thanks again all
If you want to maintain using that kettle....here's what I've done with mine. My BK heats the strike water to boiling and then I chill it down to strike temp, and I'm right at that point where if the boil is vigorous I'll lose some out the port. Solved that by using a couple of 90-degree els which also raised the Steam Slayer high enough for me to drain to the sink, and if the water level is a bit high...doesn't matter.
I finally tested my condenser and my electric system yesterday. I tried to do a 90 minute boil to see what boil off I get. But in trying to prime the pump I dumped a fair amount of water on the floor so I don't know for sure. I did look after one hour and about 1/2 gallon was gone. I boiled at 35% power until I started running it through the pump/chiller to sanitize them. 45% seemed to work well for that.
I checked the temp on the condensate and it was 90-95 degrees F. It looks like I'm using about 13 gallons/hour. I also checked my water cost and for a 90 minute boil it would be about $0.23 so I don't mind the extra water and the resulting cooler condensate as it runs directly into my waste pipes.
Thanks to @BrunDog for this great idea. It eliminated having to punch two six inch holes through the brick on the front of my house.
I checked the temp on the condensate and it was 90-95 degrees F. It looks like I'm using about 13 gallons/hour. I also checked my water cost and for a 90 minute boil it would be about $0.23 so I don't mind the extra water and the resulting cooler condensate as it runs directly into my waste pipes.
Thanks to @BrunDog for this great idea. It eliminated having to punch two six inch holes through the brick on the front of my house.
@brundog what did you say the optimal temperature for the effluent liquid should be?
OP
OP
Well, assuming the spray water's max thermal "absorption" capacity, it would theoretically be just below boiling. We will never get perfect mixing, so if you can get the water out around 175 degrees or so, then it is probably maxed out. Anything much less than this means too much spray water is being used. In @Spartan1979's case above, a smaller nozzle could possibly used, but as long as water use is no big issue for you morally or financially, then it's all good! Certainly better on drain pipes to keep the effluent temp lower than 140.
I live near Saint Louis, and so far, water use isn't a big issue. Right now we have flooding. Our water comes from the Missouri and Meramec Rivers so even when we're having a drought, we don't have restrictions.
Now I'm figuring out my hop spider. I've had this hop spider for years. I can't remember where I got it (Stainless something) and it has three arms made of stainless round bar that extend out over the the edge of the pot to suspend it. Since I'm using a BoilCoil I can set it on the bottom. I slit three one inch pieces of silicone hose and put them over the bottom ring to slightly lift it off the bottom and to prevent scratching. Then I bought another piece of stainless round bar to keep it from tipping.
Any reason this won't work?
Any reason this won't work?
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